My wife (on her fourth affair) <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> is driving me over the edge. I think she will beat the love I have for her completely out of me this time.

Here's my (very) condensed story for those that don't know: First Post

My oldest child is having a hard time with her. Today she asked me if he told me she talked with him yesterday. I said yes. She said he just sat there drumming his fingers whle she talked. She said she told him that she loved him and wanted a relationship with him, but she couldn’t do it by herself. I told her that he told me last night that she had said she realized about a year ago that she wasn’t happy and she tried really hard but just couldn’t be happy. She said that she told him that she had been unhappy for a long time. I told her that he was hurt (he knows about her affair. I asked her if she remembered the story of when my mother thought my dad was having an affair. She cut me off and said yes. I said that I was sure she remembered what it felt like for her too (her dad had affairs). She said she did. She asked if I thought we needed to have oldest son talk to our counselor. I said that he knows about her other relationship and our counselor said oldest daughter (12) does too, even though she doesn’t talk about it. Counselor is more concerned about her than oldest because of the way she is handling it. When I told WW that S1 knows about her affair, she asked with a laugh if I thought she should talk to him about it. I said I don’t know she should ask our counselor. I told her that I was confused about her position on this other relationship because it goes against everything we have taught our kids and what they know to be true. Awkward silence and then she said her mother was beeping in, would I please hang up. I said ok and hung up.

I don't understand how she can do this. I just don't

What does it mean when people use "DD" about their children?

Sorry about poor grammar, I'm just frustrated, angry, irrational, and reminding myself that I don't want to do anything rash, lest I negatively impact my future... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />
Here's my new signature:

In the nearly NINE years of affairs, what have you DONE to break them up?

Exposure?
Plan A/ Plan B?

or have you done absolutely nothing?

I have one easy answer for ya, howmuch...DD stands for Dear Daughter. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> DS stands for Dear Son. SS stands for Step Son; SD for Step Daughter or (sometimes Step Dad depending upon the context.)

So, let me see if I get this straight. Your 14yo son was impatient with his mother, because she is directly doing something that he knows is wrong and he's angry with her about that. His mother has chosen to break up his family for her own selfishness, and she tells him, "I want to have a relationship with you but I can't do it myself." Yes she can! She can stop doing what she KNOWS is wrong, repair things with you, repair her son's FAMILY and have a good relationship with him. Anything short of that, SHE has to do all the work, because SHE is the one who chose to leave HIM--not the other way around!!!!!!

FOG
FOG
FOG
FOG
FOG

Waywards <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

By the way, I'm glad you came here to vent. What you're feeling is completely normal and we have all felt how you are feeling. It helps a little to say it to someone though, doesn't it?

Your faithful friend,


CJ

BigK,

1st affair: She was overwhelmed by guilt, shared with our pastor, confessed to me, sat on the floor beside me all night holding my hand and crying while I was on the couch. We left the church we attended (OM) was there, began counseling, went to Family Dynamics marriage weekend based on Harley's material, went back and became trained facilitator's, led 8 week His Needs/Her Needs course.

2nd Adulterous Relationship: I discovered it, confronted her, contacted and threatened him (to tell his wife) and it was ended. EA only, and it was mild, she liked his attention, but wasn't attracted to him otherwise. At this point I plan A'd for about six months, began counseling myself (she wouldn't go). We never healed during this season and then six months later....

3rd Adulterous Relationship: Plan A'd until she left very abruptly and in an ugly way, not knowing for certain there was an OM. Then a cold plan B for six months during which time she lost two jobs, had car repossesed and became pregnant. She was repentant, asked my forgiveness and said she knew there was probably no way I would want to, but if I did, she wanted to work on our marriage. One week later she disappeared, went back to marry OM saying there was no way I could ever accept this baby (wrong). Lasted two weeks until she came home again (to her mothers). I helped her find a small rent house (not financially) where she lived for six months while we sincerely worked on things w/ MC. She went before our church and publicly asked forgiveness on her own accord, which she was granted without hesitation. We renewed our vows in March 2002, and our marriage has been growing steadily, very active in church, women's groups, honest and open about her past and the consequent healing. OC is mine in every single way, tha apple of my eye. I had completely forgiven and forgotten the past. Seemed like a novel I read somewhere.

Then... blindsided in October w/ "I have opened my heart to another man.." statement.

Blindingly dark Plan B or straight to Plan D would be my advice.

It's hard to explain, especially when I've been so wound up by the events of the day, what she's really like. When she has not been in these affairs (mathematically 10% of marriage), she has been an intellegent, witty, beautiful, wife. A caring and concerned homeschooling mother. An excellent caregiver. A worship leader at church. She was a devoted Christian spending daily quiet times and urging and making it easy for me to be the spritual leader of our home. It is truly a fog that has set in on her, but I think this time she is determined to break us up by stubbornly doing irrepairable damage to our relationship. I feel positive that this fog will lift and she will see clearly again. Hence my id: howmuchmore...

Hi, howmuchmore.

Time to let this bird out of the cage.

God bless,
Gimble

Gimble, believe me I know what you are saying. I'm in a Divorce Care group and last night was the lesson on anger. It talked about "Mythical Thinking" where you just can't accept that your spouse is capable of these choices. Or you can't "add it all up" and make sense of it, and you're hung up on that.

That's where I am. I love her with all my heart. Truly. I can't even at this point give up on the bride of my youth, until there is nothing left at all.

I want my family to be healthy and whole. I don't want this easy out of marriage perpetuated by example to my children.

I'm angry.

I'm sick of this.

I want my wife (healthy) back.

Gimble...

I'm sure you're bound to be familiar with Mortarman...

He is somewhat of an inspiration to me at this point. I'm not yet ready to give up.

Sometimes I hate myself for it.

MM did a dark plan B and was progressing to the end game of his Plan D. Use THAT for inspiration.

HMM-
You should read Dobson's "Love Must be Tough"

I think it would help you. You basically stand your ground, and do not accept this poor treatment.

What are her needs? Are you filling her needs all of the time? What are her complaints?

Sadmo

Hi, HMM.

Yes, I am familiar with Mortarman, and he is a good man.

I can appreciate you not giving up. I am a fighter too.

I also think that good common sense will tell you that it is time to stop handling snakes BEFORE you have been bitten so many times that your nervous system shuts down.

Just for the sake of sanity, not to create a firestorm, I want you to know that I think that what you are doing doesn't make sense. I also think that your motivation is likely rooted in fear, rather than religion. It is harder to face your fear than accept whatever comes to you as "fate" or "God's will". Bad things do happen to good people. It isn't necessarily a "test".

Just food for thought.

God bless,
Gimble

BigK
Do you feel that I am a sap?

Sadmo
I have read LMBT. I think it's a great book and I applied its principles before and have been this time too, to an extent.

As far as her needs, I think she has a hole in her heart/soul that can only be filled by God, that began with her father abandoning her at age 11. I believe she feels a mortal man can fill that hole which is impossible and when I can't do it as her husband, she becomes susceptible to other men, whom she perceives can "answer her question". Then the "fog" sets in.

She needs to be accepted for who she is, flaws and all.

She needs feel that she is important and she needs to be able to bring her problems and life to me (or someone) without the problems affecting me. Or at least how they affect me being more important than how they affect her.

She wants to feel that love is not withdrawn from her when she doesn't behave as others want or expect her to.

These are all difficult to meet under the current circumstances.

CJ... Yes, it is beneficial to vent, unexplainably. Many nights I've laid here in bed and just read, to emotionally beaten to type. You have a great spirit.

Gimble,

Interesting thought about fear. What do you suspect I fear? Abandonment and rejection? Most certainly, but that has already happened. I sincerely don't feel that I am hiding behind Christianity, but I am willing to examine that. Can you elaborate?

Hi, HMM.

Fear of change.

Face it, what you have already done hasn't worked, and your relationship is still not stable, even after monumental efforts. Based on past performance, even if you patch up your marriage again, it will develop a new hole, and the cycle will repeat.

When the foundation is broken, sometimes it just can't be fixed. Facing the fact that the possibility of irreparability exists, is hard. It's easy for me to read your posts and see a train wreck. Harder for you to see the truth.

It's your decision obviously, I just want to throw a brick at you and see if I can get your attention before you automatically start trying to get the train up and running again.

God bless,
Gimble

Possibly - I don't know enough about you to see that.

But

I will say - getting inspiration from other's situations is fantastic and is one of the best things about this community. But you need to rlook at what they actually DID to see if you can apply that to your situation.

In MM's case he resolutely sought reconcilliation with his WW while tearing her throat out legally to protect him and his kids.

Or you can take the other approach of doing nothing like many men in particular seem to do these days - and you can see the result of that.

Are you a sap? Not necessarily but after years of affairs, I would think it's time to take some positive action. Plan B as I said or Plan D. The Dobson approach also has merit IMO.

BigK,

You're certainly blunt. I appreciate it in a way. Maybe I am scared... or lazy, this time around. I didn't really plan A this time. I was so freakin' blown away when this cycle began to repeat. After all that we'd been through, and Gimble, the last five years were stable, I thought we'd healed, grown...

In October, I guess I was so shocked that I didn't really try anything at first. I didn't come back to this forum immediately, I didn't review the Tough Love stuff, I just prayed and tried to focus on the kids and my new job. I tried to focus on my relationship w/ God and become my own healthy person, independent from her.

Then as this has progressed, I have started to feel "unreleased" from the marriage, convicted that I need to let her take every step to destroy our marriage on her own without my assistance.

I guess I naively believed that because of all we knew about affairs, because we had experienced the destruction and pain and expense that comes with separation, because she had "healed" and was open and honest about her past mistakes and ministered to other women (and had a profound impact on many of them), that this fog would blow through quickly.

Maybe I haven't read enough of MM's story to fully understand how he handled it. I know there was a five month period where he hardly spoke to her. Prior to that, even while separated and she was actively involved with OM, he remained close to her and even "competed" w/ OM trying to make deposits in her love bank. Even engaged in SF (sexual fulfillment?) w/ her. That is beyond my comprehension.

Well clearly she has disabused you of this notion.

I see fog here - you need it blown out of your mind. Action is empowering.

HowMuch,

I'll be very blunt. Last time I posted to you I asked if you had considered the possibility that you were NOT listening to God? I won't be so patient now.

YOU ARE HARMING YOUR CHILDREN. You fear modeling just getting rid of the marriage as the easy way out. Let's see. You W has had four affairs, and an OC which you are now raising. I would say this is NOT the easy way out for you, but you are failing to understand that the uncertainty of this situation is harming your children terribly.

You are modeling what should NOT happen in a marriage or to children in a marriage. You continue to bring pain to them because while you are uncertain as to what to do, you do have control. You children live with the uncertainty and they have NO SAY in this. This drama and the others that have proceeded it is harming your children.

It is time you protected them. It is time you thought of them first and frankly you have not. I know you will say you have but the reality is that you have placed them in a no win situation.

If sometime in the future your W or exW whatever she is decides to get it together, then deal with it then. Your W cannot be fixed by you. You cannot make up for what has happened to her or fix her problems. You are her H not her counselor and you sure are not God.

It seems obvious that your W has huge emotional issues and her modeling those issues for your children is NOT good. Drawing your children into her drama is NOT good. Putting them in the middle of this is NOT good. Keeping them there is NOT good.

Your JOB #1 is not your W, nor is it fixing your W, nor is it educating your W. Your JOB #1 is those kids, their protection, and their emotional and physical safety. Focus on them and let God handle your W. Let her go so that the work can begin...on you as well as her.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL