What would be a typical custody agreement for a dad living two states away from a boy who just turned three? I'm finally meeting with various attorneys to choose one. I've had our boy with me since I left his dad 2-1/2 years ago. About a year ago his dad moved to another state. He hadn't seen his boy but every 3-4 months so right after he moved I filed for a divorce and had him served. A short time after that he started wanting to see his boy, likely due to encouragement from his attorney that I'd say he abandoned his child. So he's actually been showing up every other week for almost a year now. The attorney I met last week said likely he'll get joint custody. I suggested we just keep doing what we are doing, he comes to see his boy at his schedule when he can, and when there are flight specials. It's all be mostly fine but what happens as the boy gets older? He'll likely get summers and hollidays? Do we try to work that out now and at what age will traveling begin? I still don't want my ex alone with him in another town or state, I haven't let him do that but he's pushing more lately to take him out of town to ballgames, etc. Life will go on I realize, my boy is my life, I know I need to finish this divorce, there's going to be mediation soon. I have a lot of research to do. But it sounds like sole custody is rare and if I had a chance for it, it's over at this point with his record of visits. My boy likes being with his dad, and I'll admit I've enjoyed breaks now and then as being a single mom is hard. I just don't want him to have long periods of time with him out of state, no mom would.

Horsey,

I really don't know on that particular one. I would suspect it varies from court to court and judge to judge and even individual child to individual child and situation to situation.

I wish you the best of luck on your upcoming mediation appointment <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

ok, i have somewhat followed some of your posts but refresh my memory. when you left your h did you move to another state at that time or stay in the same state just a new town? if you moved to another state from the get go that i think could be held against you. if you were both in the same state and he moved to another state that won't look to great for him, even if it was for a job, when he could have had a good job right near where you two live.

with his past years visitation record yes, that will count for something. judeges aren't stupid and will likely know he has been doing it at the urging of his attorney but the bottom line is he has been doing it. my ex did not spend any time with our kids the first 8.5 years of their lives. now all of a sudden this last year he has been dad of the year with scheduled visits and him keeping them. the fact that the effort is being made on his part, no matter how fake it is, will count for something.

my children will be 10 next month (twins) and i have a situation that could turn into a move out of state. (my bf lives out of state and i always told him that if the time came we got to the point of commitment i would move to him. he has a child too and i would never ask him to leave her several states behind). now, i am sure my ex will never agree for me to take them out of state. so, that will mean going to court. a judge will want to see that moving my children away from their father is in their best interests. well, besides him being an evil narcissist that won't be enough. now, where bf lives ( i live in a very small town with no work here, mediocre schools, not much extracurricular stuff for my kids to do) my kids would have many more opportunities, i would have great work prospects, better neighborhood, etc ... proving a move to be beneficial i do not think would be hard for me to do. i would probably offer my ex something like this: all school vacations he could have the kids and summers. and, when the kids are of age (13) i would let them decide who they would want to live with. if they were miserable and really missed our state and their dad, when they were old enuff i would let them make that choice for themselves.

if and when that decision needs to made, that is what i plan to offer.

very rarely is sole custody granted. even if i moved out of state we would still have joint with placement being with me.

mlhb

I moved to another town a year ago, moved the same divorce town here, same state. I filed for a divorce right after he moved to another state 1-1/2 years ago. I served him right after he moved. Yes the man didn't see his boy hardly for 1-1/2 years, only every 3-4 months and he's doing the dad of the year thing. Taking pictures of every trip, making sure that I'm in pictures to show the happy family (steams me when he does that and I told him no more me in the pictures). But a story I read online told men to do this, he wants to prove how friendly our relationship is because there was domestic violence, he was charged and I finally left for good after that. I've wondered how "fake" this is that he's dad of the year as you call it, because he didn't give a dang.. he used to basically laugh at me, wouldn't send a dime in child support, said I deserved nothing and boy did his you know what from ****** attorney put him in his place - this man I married is a control freak, always gets his way but I'm assuming she put the fear of god into him because I've seen checks every since. I could have finished the divorce saying he abandoned his son, she told him he better dang well show up and see the boy. Seems like they are enjoying each other - my boy and him so I'm figuring it's in my boy's best interest. And I let him do this rather then continuing this divorce. But my boy showed up with a bruise/cut from a hotel bed the other weekend and it had to be investigated because the babysitter threw a fit. Because I screwed up and said something about my boy's dad. Maybe it'll all work out in the end, it's just a reminder i need to get custody worked out. A mom at my daycare said since he's out of state they should give me primary custody and joint decision making. I think that's what an attorney was saying although she was trying to make me more riled up too. I'm going to attorney after attorney until I find one of these people that I can actually get along with. Before I hired the attorney with the biggest ad, that didn't turn out well, he was a crook, and I fired him after 4k and even spending that he didn't listen to a word I said. The case was transfered and the woman at the courthouse wondered why, what's been done? Nothing, just two crooked attorneys squbbling for months without the consent of either client. My dad was dying of cancer, I moved, I didn't continue that. It was a no win situation for my boy's dad or I, even he realized it later that I left and protected him from his own attorney. I didn't want a dirty divorce. I don't even think if I faught like both attorneys wanted us to I would have gotten sole custody would I? Anyways hindsight is 20-20, I did what I did and can't look back. Just want to move on with my life and finish this. That's all. You are right, it won't look good for him that he moved out of state, he knows that... obvioiusly dad of the year knows it. In a book they called it "disneyland dad" the dad that shows up from out of town, does all the fun stuff with a kid, exhausts the kid, mom has to deal with discipline, no wonder my boy loves disneyland dad!

Horsey,
Refer to the book "Mom's House/Dad's House" and other divorce books. There are some great ideas in these books about long distance parenting plans. Get thee to a library.

I know, I need to research more. Knowledge is power. I definitely need more information before hading this over to an attorney. I just keep hoping it'll all go away and fix itself.

And to quote Dr. Phil: How's that working for you?

Horsey, you keep spinning your wheels and getting nowhere.
You can do this divorce by yourself (with or without an attorney).
Spend your energy on getting through the D. Start drafting your own documents - you are obviously an intelligent woman. Do you research, find all you can, then if necessary, find a lawyer (with email) who will use what you've done to simplify the process.
Get that Book! They've done the work for you. And when you get stuck, the experts (lawyers, psychologists, etc.) can help because they've seen every variation and can make some great suggestions.

Ok, time to repeat this again.

JUST DO IT!

i'm going to look up that book myself.....

mlhb

Really Horsey, stop the research and start moving ahead.

Consider yourself lucky that you don't have to deal with your infantile X on a daily or weekly basis. Think of all the decisions you can make alone. You won't have to inform him of every kid's event, only to see the look on your child's face when he doesn't show - yet again.
You won't get frustrated that you've asked him for 4 months about summer plans to you can book summer camp, and when you tell him the price, he balks. Where was his head over the past 4 months - up his *ss.

I deal with the daily frustration of a father who says he wants the kids, but doesn't provide much of what a good parent should provide. Parent teacher meetings, doctor, dentist and counseling visits, sports, girl scouts, none of this is "his" responsibility. I do all I can to make sure my kids have a normal life, while X coasts and drags the kids over his girlfriends house, ignoring that they are missing softball games, scouts, or their best friend's birthday party (last night). Or tell the kids he doesn't get enough time with them, while I'm struggling to find an overnight sitter for a business trip because he can't be bothered (and yes, I ask him every time in accordance with the right of first refusal).

Think it's been a frustrating week for me. Consider yourself lucky that he choose to move away. My X constantly tells the kids I moved tor far, and took me to court. The judge was pissed that he even had to listen to the case, due to X's appeal of the initial judgement.

And don't get me started on when he tried to tell me when Easter began in the weekend, or tell me 4 days before my vacation with the girls (informed 60 days inadvance) that he planned a dinner with him mom and dad and I couldn't go. (they live 10 minutes away).

CONSIDER YOURSELF LUCKY. LIVE YOUR LIFE LIKE THE SINGLE PARENT YOU ARE. You may miss the breaks, but you will most certainly avoid this frustration.

Newly, whew you are right, to have this man in my face, he was considering moving here six or so months ago and I prayed to God he wouldn't. He didnt' in the end, said it was a lower paying job and he "couldn't afford it." Truth is he wants to hide out avoiding the issues - ok I did crack his emails and read this in his own works to his ex girlfriend. I believe it's true. He knows he couldn't handle working with me as parents.

Yes you are right, I am very lucky he chose to move to another state and I need to finish this while he's long gone. Hoping he'll stay long gone actually. But can you imagine sending your child off to another state having no control? My boy would only be in daycare during summers there anyways and he only goes half time if that with me as I'm self employed. I don't even think my boy would like spending summers in daycare anyways as he's used to freedom like I am.

It does appear that control freaks fight to fight doesn't it? He used to try to get into fights with me about so called withholding his boy, etc. And when I'd bring my boy to him he'd call it babysitting and couldn't be bothered. He likes to come on weekends and play what a book called Disneyland Dad. No responsibilities - but at least he writes the check that should be double what it is every month to me that he refused to write for over a year until I hired an attorney.

Yes I do miss the breaks as a single mom having an ex in town. Friends of mine go out on weekends when the ex has the kids. I don't even get that. Of course he's never once scheduled to come here on the one or two weekends every other month that I work for my business to help me out. Never. Not to be expected, he flies in and out of my boy's life as he pleases. Plays around. My boy got a bruise and cut last time as he like is irresponsible compared to me, and isn't as careful as he should be with a three year old. I'm sick of this too, of course that was all my fault too. Everything is you know. Other then recently in our talks about finishing the divorce he claims to never have believed what he loved to say to me (all while I had a baby, was a single mom, was broke, had no furniture) - you don't deserve a dime, you've done nothing, send the kid to me if he's too expensive and I'll do it right, you're a terrible mom, bad wife, etc. What a pig this man has been, as the counselor said there are "consequences" for men who aren't responsible, the law will make sure he lives up to at the very least child support. What others say on this site is true, he'll either me a dad or not, and I can't worry about what kind of a dad. Am I buying trouble worrying about summers with his dad? Just scares me is al.

Just move ahead with it. If he's really paid no attention to date, the courts won't force a summer away, particularly at your son's age.

A neighbor has a daughter who lives 600 miles away. He flies there monthly to pick up the child to spend time with new wife and 1/2 sister, and he gets 1/2 summers and holidays. He does it, because he wants to do it.

But as my friend says, it is far easier to be a long distance parent, than the one who lives with the child.

All control freaks demand full custody, just for the fight. Know that going in, but have lots of backup in the books and research. We reverted to a psychological evaluation because my x control freak demanded more tiem than I offered in mediation. He got less, The experts see through the ******. They really do. Trust in the system, but know the system.

Thanks Newly, I'll need more advice from you as I go through this please. I have read that control freaks like to do the sole custody battle thing. But my ex left the state and has domestic violence on his record. I hope the experts do see through the crap as you say.

I like how you put it, trust the system but know it. How can I get to know it more? I've thought of sitting through court hearings. And there will be mediation if I file a motion of my own even without an attorney. Would you suggest that? My next meeting with an attorney for a consultation isn't until 2-3 weeks. He's the biggest jerk of town, also respected so I hear. The best. The last lady attorney I couldn't stand from a few weeks ago. At least I'm meeting attorneys again.

I think maybe you are right, if anything it'll be half of summers and he'll try to push for more during mediation. That's why he's wanted mediation, women will settle for less. I need to know a lot even before mediation. Don't I?

I believe in mediation, especially when its free like in my state. Mediation does not work when one person is a "power over" type, and these control freaks/NPD's don't do mediation.

However, mediation gives you a baseline of appropriate scheduled from a reputable third party.

I've said it alot on here. Type up your own custody agreement. Walk into your next lawyer's office with your agreement. Have 3 copies, your wish list, your middle grownd and the line you won't cross.

I just dug up Mom's house/dad's house and they spell it all out for you. How to draw up your own long distance parenting plan. I am not retyping it here. They even suggest short term and long term plans, as the agreement may change once the child gets older, or your location changes.

GET THE BOOK. There was another great book which I can't find now with Sandcastles in the title. This one is more about helping your kids through the divorce aftermath, but they had great custody suggestions.

And, every agreement written will have a clause that custody can be revisited every few years. In my case, the psych saw my X was so adamant, that he suggested custody could be reevaluated after we were each in our homes for 6 months. X never pursued it.

And, if you haven't learned yet, NPD's have no respect for authority, the judge, the court system, etc. So they ignore it. This works to our benefit because they look bad.

Yes it appears that my ex is even ignoring the hearing I told him is coming up this week. I guess I'll show up and he won't call in. They should have mailed something to him too. It's just a hearing to see what the issues are, then I can file a motion for mediation myself. I see what you mean, mediation can help with ideas, it's not free here but it's cheap. I'll get the books on child custody, especially Mom's House, Dad's House. Thanks for looking at it for me, I didn't think it had much on out of state visitation, but I read it before he left the state. I didn't know about the clause that custody can be revisted every few years. Right now my boy just turned three so they wouldn't have him do summers anyways would they? My ex keeps pushing for time with him this summer, just steams me he'll talk to my boy who's this young - as my mom says "filling his head with ideas" about going to their family farm two states away for a few weeks. Amazingly he hasn't even discussed it with me, just keeps telling him about that on the phone. What should I say to him about that? Legally if I proceed with the divorce on file my boy isn't supposed to be leaving the state at all during proceedings. You are right, he doesn't care about authority. He thinks I'll back out again as I always have. But why doesn't he want to just finish this up? It's insane going on this long. Of course he's getting by paying less child support then he should and not settling up with the house and what I ought to get. This is a 50-50 state so there's retirement and other assets I have rights to. Wouldn't it be better to just get this over with? A counselor told me before I left him, that men like this have no respect for the system but maybe that works to our benefit as they look bad - people know better don't they in the system? Man hurts wife, she moves five hours away, he barely sees her, refuses child support, doesn't see his boy, then he leaves the state crying to friends that wife said she'd come along (lie) to make himself look good, that wife took the dough and served him with divorce papers, upon getting divorce papers starting paying half of what he should have been for child support, starts seeing kid flying/driving from two states because his own attorney filled him in that I could file abandonment... really? Is anyone going to believe the 'dad of the year' story and the 'my wife promised to come...' Jeeze.

Where could I find examples of custody agreements to just type up myself. I like that idea. I also like researching it enough to know what I want, mid ground and what I won't accept. There's a dvd on Divorce I'm going to watch again that has more info. Plus the book you gave me. I guess I'm going to need one of those dirty attorneys to help "edit" this custody agreement. But yes I like your idea of staying in control by at least having a draft. Very good, thank you Newly.

Books, books, and books. I had alot of books on healing as well as D. There was one rather nasty book I picked up at the cheap book store, on how to deal nasty in your divorce, written by a lawyer and psychologist together. It was more than I could take.

If you let him take DS this summer, it may set a precedent.
Really, just start getting things on paper, and then you'll keep adding and editing. A friend included a week of vacation for each parent in her agreement (that is, the other parent had to take the child so the parent could go away).

My X interprets the agreement as he sees fit. According to him, I'm not allowed to have twe weekends in my vacation weeke, just Friday to Thursday. And now, he's decided that if his mom watches the kids, that can be his vacation time, and I'm not allowed to see them the entire week because it's his vacation. My agreement explicitly states that the parent takes vacation to spend with the kids, not to keep the other parent away. I think that psych, evaluator knew my X's type, since he's pulling this stunt now. And I gave him 4 month's notice on summer camp dates, and after I've dropped the money, he miraculously can care for the kids that week. Funny how that happens whne I tell him how much it is.

I heard again from his GF that I'm keeping him away from his kids. Really? How's that? I have to get a sitter when I go on business trips because daddy can't be bothered. I keep the kids when he's busy. And, he's never asked for any more time with them. I've asked if he want's them longer than 6 pm on Father's Day, and he says no. Idiot. It never ends, have the agreement ironclad.

And, yes, it should include a clause to revisit parenting time because that is fair, so make sure it is included. BUt relax and know that he will never take the initiative. He never does.

I once did a speed read of that same book, it was called dirty divorce or something that made me want to completely puke as well.

Yes I think that's why he's trying to "put ideas" in my boy's head as my mom calls it, talking to him - and NOT me - about going to the familiy farm late summer. I'm quite certain that he's thinking I'll back out of continuing this divorce as usual and he's buying time, yes a few weeks in the summer would help him out wouldn't it? Or any time alone with the boy?

Interesting you mention the GF, an attorney said that custody disputes are between two women, not a woman and her ex. That it's the GF or new wife of the ex that eggs him on, do you think that's true?

Whatever with a man like this everything needs to be detailed as possible. I'm going to do as you said, read, read, read. The library has few books on divorce so it looks like I'll just have to buy, buy, buy. And that's ok.

I'll start writing down things on paper as you say, then can continue to edit and edit. I like your idea a lot. I sure could use a week vacation, actually more then a week to myself. I'm a loner, I love my boy but I miss my alone time. Of course I hire babysitters/daycare and use some of my "work time" as my time as I'm self employed. But I miss my travels and freedom some, I traveled a lot of the world in my 20s, now I feel so tied down. As long as my boy is safe with his father I don't know what my issues is, of course I'd miss him and if he was out of state I'd really worry about him - any mother would. But he's growing up, he's a "big boy" as he calls himself - he just turned three. And he wants to do big boy things.

At what age do you think my ex will get him for even half of summers?

Do you think I should just do my own "motion for mediation" as the clerk said I could do. Neither of us have hired divorce attorneys as of yet. I've interviewed a few but haven't hired one. At least you said a mediator can give us a base to go from. I'm quite certain I won't do whatever my ex wants - whatever it is I'll have to go the opposite way, that's how my history with him is. But at least I'll know better what he wants and what he's up to.

Yes I do think you are right, he knows it's divorce time, is buying time, trying to get "precidence" on out of town trips and especially trips to his state. How can I make sure he doesn't get those before this is settled legally? He's been pushing more the last few weeks and I said NO to a ballgame out of town. He doesn't respect my boundaries, pushes and pushes. There's going to be a fight isn't there? I'm trying not to fight with him.

I'll call the court house and see how long it'll take to get a meeting with a mediator, there's only one in this town that does all cases.

Found this on farmily-law.lawyers.com

When Mom and Dad Live Far Apart

Here's the standard visitation my court uses when the child and the non-custodial parent are separated by distance, also phrased with mom as the custodial parent:

The husband shall have the right to have the children with him as follows:

Six weeks during each summer at a time to be selected by the husband, provided, however, that husband shall have notified the wife of the dates of the intended visitation at least 30 days before such visitation.
Each Christmas, beginning on Dec. 26 at 9 a.m. and ending New Year's Day at 3 p.m.
During the odd years, spring break from 9 a.m. Saturday until the following Saturday at 6 p.m.
During the even years, Thanksgiving vacation from 6 p.m. Wednesday until Sunday at 6 p.m.
Any other reasonable times the husband is in the town in which the minor children reside. Husband shall give 48 hours notice and the visitation should be no longer than 48 hours in duration.
At such other times as agreed upon between the parties.
During any periods of visitation, after the children reach the age of 12 years, the said children may travel by commercial airliner, provided:

The husband shall pay all air fares for the transportation of said children.
The flights shall be either non-stop or direct and no change of planes will be involved until the children reach the age of 14 years.
All travel arrangements shall be made by the husband.
The husband shall notify the wife not less than 10 days of the date of visitation, of the date, time, airline and flight number of the proposed carrier.
The husband shall send to the wife the round-trip airline tickets or shall ensure that they will be at the air terminal ready for said children at time of departure.
The wife shall be required to deliver the said children to the nearest commercial airport offering direct flight service to the airport at which the husband will receive the children, not to be in excess of 150 miles from wife's residence. The wife shall also pick up said children at the termination of the periods of visitation.
The husband shall ensure that either he or the children notifies the wife of the arrival of the children as soon as possible after the children are met by the husband.
At the end of the period of visitation, the husband shall notify the wife of the dates, time, carrier and flight number of the children's return. The husband shall notify the wife 24 hours before the time of departure.
On the return of the children, the wife shall ensure that either she or the children notify the husband of the children's return.
The husband shall enjoy the right of telephone visitation each Thursday, between the hours of 7 p.m. and 8 p.m. local time with the minor children, at the husband's expense. The wife shall neither interfere with nor listen in or be party to the telephone conversation during the said period of time.
Each parent shall keep the other informed of the primary residence address and telephone number where the children reside or visit.

not bad but i think i would be even more liberal than that agreement. mine would never agree to that, he would say it was not enough time.

i would allow mine to call everyday, i would split airline costs, i would require a parent to fly with the children (which would be fine to me because then i could visit my family while i was here bringing them). i would allow more time than that in the summer. i would allow my children, when they are old enough , to decided which parent they want to live with. i would do up holidays differently too, but that is just me.

mlhb

Oh, no I don't want my boy to decide who to live with ever.

I like allowing the child to call everyday, right now I let my boy do that as it is I could put that in the agreement.

My ex was trying to say at some point we'd have to split airline/travel costs, but then again he CHOSE to move out of state, why should I split travel costs? An attorney said since he'd be paying for travel I'd then get less child support... is that fair? I'm getting $500 per month now, but he should really be paying according to his wages of about 100k per year a lot more.

I don't want more time then that in the summer. My boy will only be in daycare with his dad in his town, he works full time. I work at home and my boy goes part time and not at all certain weeks. He's only three, what do they do with a kid this age anyways?

How would you do Holidays differently?

I thought this was a nice starting place. It's sort of what we are doing now, he comes when he wants, I asked for a week notice but generally he gives me 48 hours and uses flight specials to come on weekends.

I couldn't travel with my boy, that wouldn't make sense, it would be so expensive. An attorney said that you hire flight attendants even at this age, that can't be true can it?

What else?