Thanks Stella. We had problems BC (Before Children) also, though. They add to our stress, but they also call on us to become better people.

Yes, this is better. Sad, isn't it? Well, that's why I'm here. But everything seems to be going wrong at once. Things haven't been this bad in awhile.

Yeah, the kids can skip some things, but... we also missed their school's Halloween party! Funny, when I was the single mom here, we made all those things!

Some of what I feel is guilt - like, if I had stayed more active in the kids' school stuff, this wouldn't have happened. I could have checked the schedule myself, I shouldn't have left it all up to H. These things aren't important to him, they are to me. I should have realized that.

I'm thinking really disrespectful things of him right now. And of me too, I guess.

Another aspect to all this - it's bringing up FOO issues. My mom was always too busy with her own stuff to do the things that everyone else's mom seemed to have time to do. I so don't want to become her.

My mother (like her mother) obviously never wanted to have kids. I understood it without understanding it. And it killed my self esteem. My mother never played a single game with me. Ever. Ok, I take that back; when I was 11 or 12, I remember her letting me play all-night solitaire with her and my father. That was it. And after he left (the next year), she was so depressed that she couldn't be bothered with me. So I raised myself. The day after I graduated from high school, she told me she had sold the house and she was moving out of town; I could move with her if I wanted, the next week, or I could stay in Houston and get a job.

Bottom line, you have to deal with that crap and come up with your own issues. And not let them affect what you're trying to accomplish.

Ouch cat, I'm so sorry to hear that. Just reading that makes me angry on your behalf. (My anger - I know that wasn't your intention.)

I think I see what you are saying. I was thinking that that crap wasn't harming my relationship with my kids, that on the contrary it was making me more careful to be better. But it doesn't seem to have that result though, so I don't want to continue this way.

Jayne,

Re: the kids clothes your trying to get rid of..have you considered having a plastic bag next to you as you sort through them?

That way as you sort you can just put them in the bag and they won't get mixed in with the other clothes, and you can just take the bag and put it up or take it and stick it in the car to take wherever..

Jayne,

re: the kids activities, why not sit down Sunday evenings and make up a weekly events calender..put it on the computer or the fridge that way everyone can see it..and let them know to write down 'new' events on the calender as they come up.

Or if you go through your kids school things in the evening
you can all sit down together and see if the teachers sent home notices of upcoming school activities..and write them down then..make it a family thing, that way the kids get in the habit of writing things down on the calender as well.

Granted my kids are mostly teens now, but we do this, and if the calender isn't where they can find it..they either leave me a note on my desk or hunt the calender down so they can write it down for me..

Yes, if I was more on top of things that's what I'd be doing. The problem is when in the random chaos of getting ready in the mornings I come across clothes that are too little, and all I have time to do is to set them aside, in a pile that *I* know what it means.

I guess it would be possible to just have a plastic bag near the clothes at all times.

I've let go of this problem though, I let H get the kids dressed in the a.m.

Aw y'all, I went out to ask H a question and he's already gone to bed in the guest room! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> I guess he won't be finishing the LB questionnaire tonight like he promised.

Something really strange though - when I went looking for him, I found the piano, the wall behind the piano, the pantry on the other side of the wall, and a stool all wrapped up in dental floss!!! I guess the kids were busy, I really don't think H is that nuts!

Our household is bizarre!

TR, that calendar idea was what I/we POJA'ed yesterday (I suggested it, he didn't like it but didn't have any other ideas so he agreed to it, even though I wanted to keep POJAing to find something he was really enthusiastic about). The calendar failed us just 12 hours later, because H hadn't told me that we had to go to two different places, not just one.

Almost all of our problems are related to a lack of communication, IMO. I guess I'll have to do the calendar thing myself, and not rely on H to keep a schedule or tell me anything.

I'm now feeling panicky about him sleeping in the guest bedroom. What have I started? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

It will take time to get used to, which is why I suggested sit down together to do it..that way even the kids can help..


as are most marriage problems..

Don't do that..if you do it..then he will never step up to the plate..if you end up needing to go two different directions, then you let him go one way and you go the other..that way everything gets done..and if he complains, say well, do you have a better idea? Or you just don't DO everything--say okay, which is most important and then do that..and reschedule the other.


Why not instead of panicking, go climb in the guest bed next to him??

I'll chime in that I am right there with you in needing to find healthy alternatives to AOs. What I am trying lately (and it is working) is to shift focus from myself, and therefore my anger, onto someone else, by taking care of a need/performing an act of service. It deflates my anger because I'm thinking entirely about someone else's needs instead of my own. The problem is that if I don't address the reason I was angry at some point, resentment builds and the risk of another AO is great. And I'm not sure it would work at all if I was REALLY angry, as I would have been in your shoes. I'll let you know when I find out.

"I thought I'd made progress. Maybe I let my guard down, thinking I'd "arrived" or something.:

What were you doing when you felt you'd made progress? Was this a case of simply letting your emotions get the best of you and forgetting to implement your strategy? You obviously have good intentions, so don't beat yourself up over one lapse. It happens to all of us.

cat, Stella, TR, you guys are right about the calendar of course. I've got everything I know about on my computer, and I want to print out each week's calendar on the weekends and plan the week's dinners in addiion to everything else. I tried that a few weeks but H wasn't participating and I gave up. I'll try to let go of perfectionism, and just try to get the major activities that need to be coordinated.

I'll also try to keep in mind that communication is not the strength that H brings to the M, and so not count on him to let me know about anything unless I ask. I'll try to remember to ask.

I should just crawl in bed with him... Ok this is gonna sound like I'm making excuses, and I guess I am, but: (1) I'm working on some stuff for teaching tomorrow, and still have more to do; (2) It's cold in the guest bedroom! (3) There's not really room for me since that's where H puts the clean clothes. Maybe I should swallow my pride and adjust my priorities?

wonderin: What was I doing when I thought I'd made progress? I guess I was just concentrating on work, which includes stuff with H and is often kinda fun, and wasn't really thinking about the M; I'd stopped trying to keep up with the DS and had let go of a lot of that stuff; and I was dwelling on the things I like most about H.

Then, I started trying to deal with some bills, and couldn't find what I needed, and started trying to do some DS again and felt like any gains I made were undone by things H did; I started dwelling on H's IB and lack of H&O and annoying habits. I got mad at myself, and mad at him, and madder at myself. I got overwhelmed at work.

Don't beat myself up? But I do that so well. I feel I deserve it. *sigh*

Jayne, this stuff the separating your stuff and H's stuff, the problem solving, will happen again and again. You will have plenty of opportunities to deal with it when you're more calm.

::ducking::

What can you do this evening to feel more like you? When you have more time, I'll dig up a great Al Turtle article that talks about how adrenaline messes us up. That it was created for a different time. A good response, but one we need to get out of our everyday safe lives.


What about...

watching the kids sleep
looking at something of beauty, like art
listening to your favorite music
going out to a restaurant or bar
spending time with someone who accepts you how you are (I wish I were there to do that LOL)
go swimming
take the kids to the park and watch them run
have a cup of hot tea, and ask one of your kids or your H for a foot rub. Or give yourself one.

What floats your boat, jayne?

" I'll dig up a great Al Turtle article that talks about how adrenaline messes us up."

Ah yes, I had a lot of adrenaline from working on the conference, which I carried over into trying to get the house and finances in order. The adrenaline did not help me be a peaceful and caring person. I'd love to read the article.

You said on your thread (I think) something about your H doesn't hold a grudge when you do something he wouldn't like. My H doesn't take it out on me when I don't do paperwork like taxes. He may get angry, but he doesn't allow himself an AO over it. So I don't want to bear a grudge against him for being himself, either. Ok. I'm coming back down to something peaceful now.

Your ideas:
-watching the kids sleep <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
-looking at something of beauty, like art <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
-listening to your favorite music <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
-going out to a restaurant or bar
Earlier today I was tempted to do this after work today, w/out H... that prolly isn't what you meant though!

-spending time with someone who accepts you how you are (I wish I were there to do that LOL)
I wish you were too!

-go swimming
What a great idea, haven't done that since returning from Canada!

-take the kids to the park and watch them run <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
-have a cup of hot tea, and ask one of your kids or your H for a foot rub. Or give yourself one.

Cup of tea is good. The foot rub? I don't know how everyone else talks their H into foot rubs but I don't see my H doing that! And the kids??? You want me to ask 5 y.o. boys who just LOVE talking about stinky things and their favorite song is called "Stinky Feet", you want me to suggest they should do anything other than giggle and run from my feet? LOL

I shoulda had daughters!

But seriously, these are great ideas. Maybe I'll start with a cup of hot tea, with a hot bath, a good book, and candles. Maybe I'll suggest to H that we pick up a couple videos for a family video night tonight since it's Friday. After I apologize to him. I want to be authentic, without making matters worse. How does this sound:

"Ok. I feel very angry and guilty about missing the kids' Thanksgiving celebration at school. I'm mad at myself for not asking about it sooner, too. I should've known... (ok here's where I get dangerously close to DJing. How to accept responsibility for me not looking into it myself, instead of assuming H would tell me?) I feel like things are getting out of control and I don't like missing things due to lack of organization. I want to work harder to make the calendar work. Do you have any suggestions, or shall I just do what I can do myself?" (Keeping in mind, he IBs; I'm not sure what to do when he IBs, other than IB myself.)

"But I should not have vented my anger out at you like I did. I am sorry for that. I know how much you hate that sort of thing." (Stop there, right? I don't want to "explain away" my apology, as in "I'm sorry but"; I'm still not sure how to do amends here, specifically.)

From here, I'd like to say something like I hope we can recover and enjoy the weekend and the holidays; work together and as a team on the calendar, house, finances, Thanksgiving, etc; I'd like to finish the LB questionnaire because I think it will help.

About that: should I say that when he IBs and isn't H&O, that that is a huge LB for me, it affects my feelings of love toward him, etc? Or is that making excuses for my own AO? Should I not say anything, and hope he agrees to finishing the LB questionnaire and let that speak for itself?

Hey, I hate to whine for a reply, but please can someone chime in about the apology I've outlined? Because I don't want to have my apology come out as a DJ, and everytime I play it out in my head, I think it is coming out as a DJ...

Like, "I'm sorry I yelled at you yesterday and got so upset. I was feeling angry and hurt and guilty, but I realize that part of it was directed at myself. I could have taken more responsibility to find out the school's schedule. In the future, I want to go through the kids' papers myself. That way, if something important to me is missed, I'll be responsible for it myself."

Then a Thoughtful Request to POJA:

"I don't see the papers that you move directly from their folders to the big stack of papers. That system doesn't work for me. How would you feel about leaving the papers out on the counter until I've seen them?"

Hey, that sounds much better than anything I was saying inside my head!

Ok, I'm stuck on what to do if he says "I don't want to leave the papers out on the counter, that looks too messy." I feel like saying "Ok then I'll just take all their papers back into the bedroom and put another box beside the box of papers we argued about before." First, that's probably bad to refer to our previous argument; second, it sounds spiteful; third, it isn't POJA is it? "If you won't play ball my way, I'm taking our ball away and keeping it all to myself." And fourth, he can't be happy about having more papers stashed in the bedroom.

Any thoughts?

Jayne, I liked everything that you said. You're splitting it into what you own and what you don't. Just try to be present in the moment, not going to the past and future, like you are when you typed this. It's easy to stray LOL

I want to find BTE's old thread for you this weekend, too. I was rereading it like a month ago and LA talks about Separate and Equal. How overwhelming it is otherwise to carry your spouse's stuff on your shoulders and vice versa.

Have you tried the FlyLady Calendar and the Office in a Bag? My H does the bills, so I don't do the Office In a Bag yet, but the calendar has totally changed our lives. We have missed some big stuff, like DD11's singing recital at school that she practiced for months for last year. It does feel so bad. DD11 of course blamed us, which only made us feel worse.

But now we have a plan <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Whoever takes the papers out of the backpack writes what's going on the calendar, and can then throw the paper away. We all check the calendar every night and every morning. Even though my H otherwise hates FlyLady and usually refuses anything that she suggests just on principle.

I'm glad some of the ideas sounded good to you, just to get you brainstorming and hope to get you to remember the things you like to do <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> So, what did you do?

That was funny with your sons and the foot rubs. We got a foot spa thing last year, and I put hot water in it and it bubbles. The kids and I take turns with it. H hasn't tried it yet, so maybe your sons wouldn't either.

I mean that you did good staying present here, to bring that with you. Not that you went off here LOL

you need to sit down and talk to him about it, most guys do not open up unless you really feel the need to.

Thanks EO! Yes I was confused about past/present/future, I thought you meant I was doing it wrong. Thanks ...

Thanks HSM too...

Ok, I gotta run help put kids to bed, then will talk to H and let you know how it went....

I did it, I actually *memorized* what I wrote (because every time I mentally ad libbed it, it came out with DJs) and I said it to him. It didn't sound memorized though, I think I put in appropriate pauses and stuff. Not to be dishonest, but so that it didn't sound like I had memorized someone else's words.

First I said "I'm sorry I yelled at you yesterday and got so upset." He waited and then said "Thank you." Then I said the rest. We POJAed that he would leave the papers out "somewhere on the counter not in a stack" until after I went through them. I will try to look through them soon after getting home, but if the clutter starts to bother him he can point it out to me to go ahead and look through it so he can put it away.

I told him I didn't want him to agree to it unless he was enthusiastic. He smiled.

Then we went to bed. I asked when does he want to finish the LB questionnaire. He didn't answer. I said "Never?" He smiled and nodded. I said, "If you aren't enthusiastic about it, I don't want you to do it, because you'll resent it and that defeats the purpose." He said "We'll see." I asked what that means, and he said "We'll see what tomorrow brings."

We even had some great SF!

I think I'm getting back on track, my roller-coaster emotions are coming back under control. I will try to remember self-care, and watch for DJing myself as well as H.

I also re-read some of the articles here. I need reminders.

FlyLady's calendar and Office in a Bag, yes I lust after those! I love things like that. But I'm trying to cut our spending down just as much as possible to try and get out of debt. I figure in about a year I can have all the US debt (except the mortgage) paid off just on my salary. That's not including the interest the credit cards charge, so that is too optimistic, but maybe if I really skimp, I can make it happen.

So I'll try printing out our own weekly calendar and put everything on there. I love the idea of reviewing it every evening and morning.

Thanks y'all, for the awesome advice and encouragement.

Jayne, here's better_than_ever's thread. http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...part=1&vc=1

I found the Al Turtle article, but the link wasn't working this morning. Which is weird, because it worked fine last night, when my computer crashed before I hit "Continue"
http://al.turtlecounseling.com/blog/_archives/2005/4/13/578458.html

And good for you for how well things went this weekend!