It really was just "an affair." An affair is an affair, regardless of it being emotional, physical, or even a one night stand. They are all affairs, and are all destructive, filthy and sleazy.

So I take it you are a serial cheater and this is not your FIRST AFFAIR?


BB, there is nothing honorable about a man who has an emtional affair with his brother's wife. That is the lowest of the low. He deeply betrays MANY people that he purports to love, his wife, his brother, his children and his parents.

Dr.Harley likens adultery to RAPE, so from a psychological standpoint, that is what you are doing to your victims. RAPING THEM.

I get the sense that you have romanticized this affair into something pretty when it is nothing but ugly and filthy. There is nothing pretty or romantic about betraying your spouses, your children, your H's family.

If you want to resolve this, BB, you will tell your H and your BIL's wife the truth. Honesty is the solution to adultery, not more lies.

Bubbles,

Let me ask you this because you can't get this fantasy of BIL out of your head:

Let's say you act on your feelings with BIL, what do you expect to happen?

I'll tell you what will happen. You will go darker with BIL and keep it from your H. Eventually, it will be discovered. Your H may divorce you, BIL's wife may divorce him. BIL's BW, your BH, your children, BIL's children, and the entire family will HATE you for what you've done. You and BIL will NEVER stay together because of the immense guilt he'll feel from tearing apart everyone. Can you imagine how BW and BIL's parents would react if they found out you and BIL were having an affair? It wouldn't be tolerated. Nothing good can come from this. That is why this is a fantasy. The best thing to do is to tell your H and get help before all of this happens. Just because BIL hasn't done anything yet, doesn't make him honorable. He might not have done anything yet because he is scared of the consequences, not because he wants to do the right thing. I don't know how many people need to tell you this is all in your head and you need to take care of this before you believe us. 10, 100, 1000? Get a grip and get yourself out of this situation before you destroy two families. NOTHING good will come of this.

MelodyLane:
You need to monitor the "positiveness" of your OWN posts, Larry, because you are not qualified to monitor or dictate the 'postiveness" of the posts of others. You can only control yourself, after all.

I hereby appoint myself as the new monitor of the positiveness of the posts of others. My first order of business is to declare the vast majority of MelodyLane's posts to be negative, self-righteous and all-around completely unhelpful to anyone. My second order of business is to declare the vast majority of Larry's posts very helpful, indeed. Now back to my iregularly scheduled post...

Bubblebath, Larry's right about the infatuation cycle. It's a biological thing. The new guy always has an unfair advantage because he's new. But if you leave someone old for someone new, the new guy will eventually get old as well.

Maybe you and your husband can go away for the weekend alone together? Hotels are good places to reconnect with one's own husband, for some reason.

The rest of this post is based on what I've read from Harley's books. You should tell your husband about your attraction to his brother, not to punish yourself or protect him from you but because you're less likely to do something stupid if you know your husband knows you are thinking about it. And he can keep you set new boundaries so that you don't feel so tempted because part of the battle is just staying away from situations in which you feel more tempted. And really, once you make the decision that you want to focus on your husband, putting yourself in those situations is just torturing yourself. It's like having a staring contest with a chocolate cake while on a diet.

Unfortunately for you, dear, Melodylane is the self appointed FOG HORN MONITOR and she has detected an enormous amount of FOG, ala wayward mentality, in your posts. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Is that "positive" enough for ya? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I was thinking last night about the dynamic between the brothers. Forget the poster (can't remember her screen name right now). She doesn't even matter because she is exactly like hundreds of other posters here with exactly the same story. I once did a search on the word "unique" on this forum. The results are hysterical. I highly recommend it for a good laugh.

She is a pawn in this game. BIL is unhappy with his M. BIL decides he doesn't wany H to be happy in his M either. I'm sure his thought process is not so evil. I'm sure it is buried deep within his subconscious. BIL goes out of his way to befriend WW. BIL always plays the victim to WW. Man and woman start talking about personal problems and feelings develop. It can't be avoided. Every single time men and women start getting personal, they will develop feelings of love.

I think BIL has chosen WW for more than just her beauty/charm/personality. He has chosen her specifically because she is married to his brother. Intentional or not, he has a strong desire to hurt his brother or at least not allow him to be a success if BIL is not a success. I have two sisters like this. I have watched this drama all my life.

«Forget the poster (can't remember her screen name right now). She doesn't even matter because she is exactly like hundreds of other posters here with exactly the same story. I once did a search on the word "unique" on this forum. The results are hysterical. I highly recommend it for a good laugh.»

That was a polite opening for your post.
Never mind.
If there are hundreds of other posters here developing feelings for or starting to reciprocate the feelings of their spouse's brother, I would like you to point me to their posts, if you don't mind because I am interested in reading their stories, of course.

Re: the word "unique"; I don't remember using this word nor implying that my situation was unique. You did.
I am sure there are tons of other people in my situation, if not right here on Marriagebuilders, at least out there somewhere.

As for your little analysis, yes, it is interesting. Actually it could even be right, if it were not exactly the reverse. Since you suggest to "forget" about the poster (me) then let's just do that: forget about me and what I could and could not, would and would not do, and focus on BIL: He is refraining from acting on certain feelings exactly because of how much he loves his brother. Your take is exactly the opposite: he will act on them because of some alleged "siblings jealousy". This may have been your drama, but it is not ours.

But thank you for your "unique" input.

BB

Bubble:

Glad your back.

Have you learned anything?

Have you stepped away from the edge?

Are you ready to do the hard work of recovery?

Just wondering....

LG

BB,

This thread is full of sweeping generalizations and assumptions about you, your husband, your BIL and your marriage. I know that can be horribly frustrating.

The only assumption I will make is that you can see that you're in a very precarious position, and you're desperately searching for a solution that will do the least amount of damage to everyone involved. If that's true, what did you think of GameFace's post/suggestions (top of pg. 3)?

ETA: What other possible solutions do you see?

Hugs,
SC

Hi LG,

I logged on briefly in between stuff at work (I am on an entirely different time-zone you may have realised already).

Every single post (not counting the gratuitously destructive ones) have provided food for thought, yes.

Stepping away: thanks god, I do not see BIL every day. Most like once a week or so; every time I meet him is a hard blow to realise the feelings are still there but I have time to regain strength after the blow. So: right now is, one step back and two forward.

As for recovery: I don't know what I want right now. I have a couple of things quite clear in my mind:

1. Will not and do not want to hurt H again.
2. BIL is completely off limits.

What I am not clear about yet is if marriage with H needs to go on. As I see it, there can be a good marriage after an affair (it DOES happen; I am only human) but no sound marriage can exist when the W is in love or has persistent feelings for her H's brother. I am starting to think the fact that these feelings have happened means that something is terribly wrong.

Actually, this is why I came here in the first place.

NOT to have to defend BIL from accusations...

BB

smartcookie

Hi, wow, thanks; what a relief. yes, way too many (wrong) assumptions.

Anyway, about the post you mention (Gameface's) (i.e. tell husband) , I, like, Larry178, do not agree. That would be wanton cruelty. Assuming for a minute here that, like some have suggested, it is all in my head, then I am inflicting useless pain on a man (H) who has already suffered with my previous affair. Incidentally, I thought I was being honest and truthful back then and told him the truth and, in hindsight, I know now that what I should have done back then was swallow all my precious ideas about being straighforward, try to regain control of my life and spare pointless pain to H.
I am entirely with Larry on this one.
On the other hand, it would mean inflicting useless pain on BIL too, who has his own huge marital problems.

As for divorce, see my post above.

I am afraid I must get back to work now.
Will post again as soon as I can.

All in all, it has been useful to post here, yes.

Thank you for your concern

BB

Just want to point out that if the older brother loved his younger brother as you suggest he wouldn't be having an EA with you. I hear you justifying his and your actions over and over again. But the fact remains. You will not see this because you don't want to see it.

There isn't any love nor respect towards your husband from either of you right now.

As for #2, I'm glad you understand that. However, you need to stop obsessing over it. It is a fantasy that will never happen. It is like living your life in a fantasy hoping that you will one day win the powerball knowing full well your chances are next to zero, but not going to school or working to better yourself because you still hold out that hope of winning. This is what is in your head, and you need to fix it. I know you said that you can't afford counseling, but it is cheaper than divorce. If you were in pain, and $1000 worth of surgery would fix the pain, would you continue to suffer to save the money? Mental health is no different than physical health. You are not well and are suffering. Do something about it.

As for not hurting your husband, it is too late for that. He will get hurt. The question is how much. You can either continue to lie to him, hide things from him, and suffer while being emotionally detached from him until the truth finally comes out (death by papercuts), or you can come clean, rip the bandage off in one fell swoop, and start working on your marriage again. You are under the false notion that keeping this to yourself will protect your H from getting hurt, when in reality it is only putting off the devastation, and compounded with the months/years of lying it will only be worse.

You came here for a reason. To seek a solution to your problem. You don't like the solution that we have offered you. In turn, many posters here get much more loud and pointed in an effort into snap you out of your fog. Every poster who has posted to your thread is trying to help you. They wouldn't post if they didn't care.

In the end, you got yourself into this mess, and you are the only one who can get yourself out of it. You KNOW what you need to do, you just don't WANT to do it, so you have been making up rationalizations/excuses not to. For example:
My WW felt the EXACT same way during her affair (only it was a coworker, not my brother). Marriages can easily be saved from these exact circumstances. What you need to do is tell your husband how your feel, what you've been going through, how you want to work on the M, and that you need to avoid all contact with his brother. After about 6 months of NC and some MC, you will start to see things turn around.

BB,

Has it occured to you, that the issue is not your BIL? You have had one affair on your H. You are infatuated with your BIL. It seems to me you are missing something very important. And that is WHY? What are you looking for in other men besides your H?

I am thinking you are looking for something and you don't know what it is. But, since you feel something is missing it must be a failure of your H's that you feel this way. Now I know you will say he hasn't failed, but you are looking and you are not talking to your H about what you are looking for.

Are you looking for someone to make you happy? If so, then go to a mirror and the person you see there is the one that should be making you happy. You seem to fear hurting your H, but you don't fear losing your marriage or perhaps family.


I'm thinking it is time you stepped back and addressed your first affair. I would strongly recommend that you read the Needs section of this site. Then read the sections on the love bank, and the 4 rules for a good marriage. Start there, and then I think we will be able to help you.

I think your H does need to know, but what he needs to know is what it is you are searching for. I think when you understand that the BIL issue will fade away. He is NOT the man for you. I could offer you many reasons for that statement, but just take it on faith right now. BIL is bad news for you on many levels.

Must go, but do some reading and some thinking.

God Bless,

JL

JLearning,

Yes, I am aware there are other issues here.
I married very young. Over the years – also as a result of my A – I have changed a lot. I am not the woman I was when I married. Not better nor worse. Just altogether different. H has stayed essentially the same. Maybe I was truly immature when I married and it was natural that I would change so much. I don’t know. A therapist would certainly help here, assuming I could afford one.
Anyway, in a nutshell, the fact is that I have asked myself in the past would I marry H again if I met him now. I am more inclined towards the "no" than towards the "yes".
The only thing that is clear in my mind is that I don’t want him to suffer because of me.
Years ago my A partner asked me to leave my family and go with him. I was forced to make myself this question, then: would I want to marry this guy. The answer was clearly a resounding NO. He left and the A ended there.
If I had to ask myself the same question about BIL, I suspect the reply would be “yes”; what is really depressing here is that, even if H does not know about this and the M ends in divorce without him feeling too much pain, and even if - like it seems it will - BIL's M ends in divorce (people please, don't argue with me here, I know what I am talking about), we can never be together.
A no win situation. Feel like pulling my hair out.

BB

You sound like my W when she was wayward. Everyone changes somewhat through time, but it doesn't mean we should all neglect our responsibilities just because we changed. It sounds to me like you are immature NOW, not then. You CAN afford a therapist, you just chose not to pay for one. Do you have cable and/or internet access? What kind of car do you drive? How often to you eat out? I'm pretty sure that you could spare the money to afford a therapist, it just isn't a priority to you.


Every person says this when they are having marital difficulties. Both me and my W would have said "no" a year ago, but we would both say "yes" now. If you don't want your H to suffer, then end your A and work on your M. That is how you will keep him from suffering.


Why would you want to be with BIL??? He is a POS. Not only is unfaithful to his own wife (which means he would most likely be unfaithful to you), he is having an affair with his brother's wife!! What kind of sick, depraved human being does this to their own family? You know how in every group there's always one girlfriend that dates jerks that everyone else in the group sees through, but she just can't see it because she's the one involved. Listen to us, BIL is NO GOOD! How many times must we tell you this before you finally get it through your head?

And don't you think you are partly to blame for BIL's failing M? Afterall, you are having an affair with him. It's no wonder his M is having problems. Quit being a homewrecker! You are going to destroy everyone's lives if you don't get your act together and take care of YOUR problem.

bubblebath..

the real questions are...

1. Is there an acknowledged emotional affair between the two of you...where you are spending gobs of time talking one on one about your feelings for one another....

is there "true" communication where he says....to you and you alone...
I like you
I want you
bla bla bla

and is there the same from you to him....

real communicated acknowledged affair...

or is your post all about your feelings....
without ever having discussed your feelings with him...

the next question is...

are you willing to set boundaries...

clearly tell him you do not want to engage anymore of his flirting behaviors...
that his flirting
hurts you
and
your marriage...

AND

are you willing to engage in NO marital discussion about his marriage...
where you tell him..

I am sorry if your marriage is not what you would like..but I can not and will not discuss this with you out of respect to you and your wife and suggest the two of you seek counseling together.....

ARE you willing to have NO contact with him
never ever be alone...

again I ask you...

why are you here at marriagebuilders...

to seek justification of your "affair" which I still don't have a clear picture of how much is in reality a true emotional affair...
and how much is just your thoughts that it is...

are you willing to break your participation in the emotional connection you build and feed leading to the natural alienation of your husbands affection and the natural process of villifying him to rationalize your 'affair'...


why are you here...
what is it you want from the poster here....

ARK

BB

It is very sad that you cannot see that none of this is about your BIL. You are projecting this fantasy onto him which simply isnt true. Your H isnt "broken" or lacking in some way. Sure, maybe he isnt meeting your needs. But, BB- Im sorry to say YOU are the one that is lacking. You will never , EVER be happy until you fix YOU. You need to find out what it is that you find so compelling about your BIL. Is it the attention? The admiration? Once you know this, ASK for it from your H. What do you tell yourself about relationships so that you are able to justify having an affair once and getting yourself into the same situation AGAIN? FIX the problem or this will be a pattern for you for the rest of your life.

It is a great feeling to have someone captivated you. It feels wonderful to know you are the object of someones desire, that you occupy their thoughts and cant get you out of their mind. It is also called fantasy. It isnt real and does not last.

Lets imagine for a minute, shall we?

It is one year from now. Youve left your H for BIL and somehow managed to arrange things so that:

1. Your H is NOT hurt
2. Your children do NOT hate you for destroying your family and their father
3. Your In Laws still welcome you into their home
4. Your former BIL's children do NOT hate you for the destruction of THEIR family
5. You are NOT in financial ruin
6. The entire community you live is is NOT passing judgment or talking about your situation
7. Your children are NOT taunted at school
8. Your divorce does NOT cost money
9. Your children do NOT need therapy
10. Keep going....?

Lets say you somehow manage to do all that, even though tens of thousands of people before you have not been sucessful in doing so. You are now in your "dream relationship". Every single day, you wake up next to the same man. The one who used to make you feel so ....alive. The one who understood you like no one else has. The one you had a connection with that you NEVER had with your H, the father of your children.

That same man, your ex BIL - we will call him X. X now watches the ball game instead of staring at you across the table. Because he can have you any time, so there is plenty of time for him to do other things, like watch the game, hang out with friends, mow the lawn, you know - normal "life" stuff. So, he isnt focused on you anymore. And, he isnt particularly "hot" for you anymore either because again, he can get you anytime he wants. The passion is waning. X is no longer meeting your needs either. So, now your focus is on "Z" the postman, or "Y" the lawn guy. Because you never fixed YOU.

[color:"red"] Changing horses in the middle of a river wont get you anywhere except drowned [/color]

JustKim...this is almost EXACTLY what I told my wife when she was all set to go live with OM. I told her that she'd be happy...for a short while. While things were all new and exciting. But then once that settled down, she'd realize that she was still unhappy...because she'd taken whatever issues she had with her. She'd realize that it wasn't a problem with me...that whatever was wrong was something with her, and that after all that newness wore off, she'd still be unhappy. Only by then, she would have lost me completely from her life forever.

Interestingly enough...she told me I was full of it at the time. Six months later, SHE brought this exact same thing up in an MC session...and looked me dead in the eye and told me I was dead right. She WOULD have felt exactly that way, and would have been completely devestated at the idea of having lost me because of her own foolishness. And she was darn glad that things worked out so that we DID recover.

We're three years into recovery. Friday is 3 years to the day from d-day. Things are NOTHING like they used to be. They're FAR FAR FAR better! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

BB...some food for thought here for you, friend. The advice my hurt, and you might not like it, but they're all being blunt in trying to help you realize that your marriage can become a FAR better thing that it is now...but it's up to YOU to start the work to make it happen. Look at where I'm at right now...

Owl

Yeah. Well, that is pretty much what Mr JK said to me as well. He told me that I saved his life. That he had come to realize that the problems were about HIM and his stuff and he needed to fix that and not to look to other people to make him happy or complete

He is a very thankful man today.

BB

Owl is right. You may not want to hear much of what is being said to you. However, it is done out of a genuine desire to be helpful.

The reason I did post is in hopes that something might get through to you and stop you from destroying yourself, which is surely where you are headed.

Bubble:

Follow what Ark/Just Kim and others is saying.

Jim is being blunt, but he parsed your post pretty good.

So, you are having a difficult M.

In the middle of my A, I would have answered many of the questions the same way you did. But I never left. I liked what I had. And I liked what i had on the side.

However, just before (3 days) we discovered Marriage Builders.

And that was 21 months ago.

And we have NEVER EVER BEEN as close as we ARE NOW.

Honest and Open.
Great SF
Companions
Friends
Appreciate and Admire each other...

You can too.

I will tell you you can't get there without telling your H everything. Anything you did not reveal about your first A and what has been going on with your BIL.

Do you tell him tonight?

You should. But start to step away from the edge, avoid your BIL, start to talk more with your H and spend time with him.

An read, read, read on this site. Order His Needs, Her Needs and Surviving an Affair. Both available from this website. With shipping about $30.00

LG