So as not to t/j Married's thread in JFO, I wanted to continue our "discussion" here, if that is okay with you.



In regards to the emotional connection, believe me I have tried. He does not share his "emotions" with me and does not like to hear about my "emotions." He says things such as I'm ridiculous to feel that way, I should not feel that way, I am wrong, etc. He has literally turned around and walked away from me mid sentence with a wave of his hand saying, well you shouldn't let that bother you. Quite a few times. He has also told me that what I want is not realistic. Guys are just not that way.

I don't know how to emotionally connect with someone who doesn't seem to want to emotionally connect with me.

As for the SF, we still do because I know it is important to him. I'm sure it isn't as much as he would like. I guess I should also state that my low desire for SF is not due to a low libido. I would love to have more SF. My problem is I just don't desire it with my H right now. I feel like having SF with him is like with a friend. I just don't feel connected to my H in a way that would make me desire him. There is no emotion to our SF. Truth be known, and I'm not rewriting marital history here, there really never has been.

And before you ask, yes, I have talked with him about this. His response was basically I don't know what to tell you.

So what do I do? I just don't know what to do. I'm so tired of being sad and lost over this.

Hi Rubydoo,

I an relate to what you are saying here:


first, he should not do this, bottom line. it is not a very loving thing to do. and i know it hurts and i am sorry for your pain.

but now, before i say much more, i want to ask you a question.

what do you do in response to his behavior?

you know where i am going with this right? you cannot change his behavior but you can change your response to it. so lets talk about that. ok?

Oh, FL2H,

I want to know this too. The dismissive hand thing happens here and it makes me froot loopy!!

Thanks for bringing this point up...

now i'll have to pose the same question to you MAZ...

what do you do when this occurs to you?

either of two ways...

1. follow and explain that that was rude and mean, etc...and it escalates

2. do nothing and stay mad...until eventually H comes to me and will want to know what's wrong and I'll tell him and maybe he will apologize or maybe we'll continue fighting over it...

Productive, eh?

ummm, no! lol

so maybe a different approach?

approach 1: i might be wrong but i'm guessing when you follow him to explain his rudeness/meaness he is not very open to hearing about it?? which explains the escalation.
given the outcome, i would recommend not doing that anymore

approach 2: ok, sounds like this approach gives a better outcome some of the times, that is better than above but still not ideal.

why? well first, it forces you to have to stay mad and be obvious about your anger so that he will even know to come ask you. right?? AND it is dependent on your H's action, i.e. him deciding to ask you why you are mad.

now i have another question before i continue....

why do you think sometimes he apologizes and sometimes you go back to fighting?

ya know, i suppose i'm asking you to make a jugement call on your H's actions, which is not proper now is it.

let me change the question....

do you see a corralation between HOW YOU talk to him and how he responds when he asks whats wrong?

so keep explaining to me HOW YOU communicate with him

Hey guys!

First, thank you for responding. And MAZ, I'm so glad you are chiming in too. I have followed your posts and I can relate to a lot of what you say.

I have 2 approaches also.

1. Just shut up and go about my day. I guess I do this because I am mad and pouting. I tell myself, why do I even bother and usually argue it out myself in my head.

2. I point out what he is doing and tell him how I feel dismissed and unimportant when he does this. He will usually apologize and that's that. Well, until the next time. Same thing, different day.

I must say we never argue. He doesn't argue. He just acts as if nothing has happened. It truly amazes me how can act as if nothing just happened.

Because it's an apology surrounding by comments like..."I just think it's silly; I don't understand why you're mad; you really have nothing to be mad about; you're making a big deal out of nothing...." It's like he's saying he's sorry but then trying to defend his actions still, insincere.

MAZ, ok, once again i can relate, "i'm sorry, but..." does not usually help me feel better either.

i would recommend you try to talk to him about this at a time when you are NOT in the middle of a specific issue.

and when you do, don't aggressively confront him. try to calmly and lovingly communicate with him that you feel hurt when such and such happens. if he starts to debate it with you say, i'm really not looking to debate any specific instance, i'm wanting to inform you of how i feel during those times. "what you do with that information is up to you" i have used this approach and it seems to get thru to him. you are communicating with him, not trying to decide who is right or wrong, because feelings are not wrong. i had to say it a few times but he seems to understand now. i think it was key to specifically state "i am just communicating with you, WHAT YOU DO WITH THE INFO IS UP TO YOU, i cannot control your response but it is my responsibilty to make sure you know how i am feeling about it. it is your responsibility to decide what to do with the info i give you"

the key is to be calm and to pick the right time and to approach it positively. stick with "I" sentences, stick with expressing your feelings.

ruby, it sounds like you do this some of the time and that your H does respond and appologizes and it sounds like it is sincere. but i'm not convinced it helps you anymore because it sounds like it happens too often.

for you the advice is, communicate that to him. at a time that is between specific instances. do it calmly, stick with "I" sentences, express your feelings...

"i am feeling _______ (hurt, angry, dissullisioned, whatever the feeling is) when this happens over and over. i appreciate that you apologize when i point it out to you but the fact that it continues to happens makes me feel ___________"

do either of you think that might help??

i honestly think it can because i have seen it in my marriage. so give it some thought, talk about it more here and then try it.

Not really, because I feel I already do this and he apologize but then does it again the next time, only in a different way.

And what do I do when he dismisses what I'm saying by saying something along the lines of I can't help you.

For example, when I tried to talk to him about needing an emotional connection with him and that it was affecting our SF, he told me what I wanted was unrealistic and guys just don't work that way. What do I do with that?

I am getting very frustrated that he expects me to meet his needs but will not even try to meet mine. The only connection I feel with him is as parents and friends. Isn't a couple suppose to have more than that?

with all respect just learning...realizing I wasn't asked...
and am now butting in....

but here's my two cents...

rubydoo...

men typically don't do well with a long list of how their spouses are feeling....

this is not meant to belittle or dismiss your feelings...

but men are concrete fixers and problem solvers...

and sometimes when we keep going to them with feeelings...

they get defensive
tune out...

part is their wiring.....
part is that in marital crisis..it's not always the best time to talk feeeelings....

any one men/women can learn new ways to communicate...

one of the best ways to have your husband to learn to share your feelings...

is to change how you share yours...

what if you were to abstain for a week...two weeks...a month sharing ANY feelings....

but continue to engage him in conversation about things...
go to him for help in solving things...
ask him for advice on what to do about this or that...and then use his advice...

but go on a share your feelings diet...

what would that look like in your marriage.....

perhaps he sees your sharing feelings...as a list of things he does wrong or bad...

what about a week of sharing allll he does well and good...

what would that look like..

ARK

MEN MARS
WOMEN VENIUS

2LONG...SOME UNAMED MOON OF A YET TO BE DISCOVERED PLANET...
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

ARKie

Just about how my marriage looks now.

I stopped sharing my feelings with him after the whole SF-emotional connection talk.

Everyday conversation about the kids, the house, work, when he is playing golf is what we discuss.

Isn't there more to marriage than that?

I don't mean to beat a dead horse about this, but if you don't share your feelings, make an emotional connection with your spouse, how in the world does SF become ML and not just sex.

How in the world am I suppose to desire SF with my H if I don't feel emotionally connected to him?

Ruby,

How much RC time do you guys do together every week? You getting the 15 hours of UA time? Emotional connection happens A LOT...in a lot of ways.

Have you actually said to him..."I don't want you to fix my feelings...they're mine. I want to inform you of them...to connect and share. I'd like to hear yours, too...and your thoughts, beliefs, perceptions. No fixing required."

(which is how I took FL2H)

Drive by O&H statements..."I felt very connected to you last night when you took my hand after dinner. Did you want mayo on your sandwich?"

Have you read the 5 Languages of Love? Do you know his languages? Do you know your own? Can you focus in all he IS doing (as I took Arkie's recommendation) rather than not?

Half of what you're experiencing is yours...through your own filter. You can change how you feel by HALF. That's nothing to sneeze at.

Next, if you are asking him to change how you FEEL...then that's full of frustration and failure for him. He can't change your feelings...he's not that powerful.

So many men out there are thrilled to find out that they don't have to fix your stuff...your thoughts, your feelings...your stuff...just know it. It's not plain and easily understood. Listen and repeat to what he says...show him the way to listen to know, not to judge, not to fix...and be generous and verbose with your praise, your appreciation, admiration of him...because you chose to zoom in on your ABUNDANCE...instead of your lack.

Your choices...your power...changes how you connect emotionally, physically, mentally and spiritually with your partner.

Doesn't take you all the way...just changes, well, everything.

Look to clearing out your resentments (which film over any loving feelings you're having, blocking them from yourself); resentment can stop his love deposits from getting in, which can give you the emotional experience he's not connecting...when he's doing a lot.

I relate very much to where you are...and I'm living a whole different way now. See, I finally identified where my connection was dropping...because I truly didn't know I wanted what I wanted, when I wanted it and in the way I wanted it.

All I experienced was him not connecting, not giving it to me.

The more I examined myself...not to blame or fault..to KNOW...the better our marriage got...'cuz I shared my exploration, investigation, thoughts and what I was working on...and I began to live in abundant joy...delight...from myself (inward) spilling outward (all over my partner).

That's connection--and it's better than anything you may have ever experienced before in your life. Was for me.

You're not wrong, unreasonable, making a big deal out of nothing...what you're not doing is validating yourself, your choices and acting from love, anyway. You're basing a lot on him...which is like making him responsible for YOUR disconnection...find your half and you'll find a lot of freedom and love; puddles of it.

LA

Thank you LA for replying.

No we do not get in the 15 hours. I have tried, he isn't interested or doesn't think 15 hours is possible.


I have told him that I am working on me. I am going to therapy, which he doesn't think is money well spent. He doesn't understand why I need to go. Although I have tried to explain it to him. I have also told him that I want us both to feel safe with each other and be able to talk about what we are feeling and when we have a problem or troubles. That is when I got the whole guys aren't that way and I am being unrealistic.


Yes I have. I think I have a pretty good idea of mine and if so, then he isn't loving me the way I want to be loved. I'm not exactly sure about his so I try to cover them all.

I can focus on what he does do, but all that equals up to me is a friend and a parent. Everyone once in a while, he'll hit one out of the park, literally about twice a year, and I gush all over it. But you know, I don't have to have the big gestures, just a little love you note on a post-it would send me over the moon. And yes I have told him that, and no he doesn't respond.


I don't believe I am asking him to change how I feel, to just acknowledge, to know I am lost here and losing feelings where our relationship is concerned. To work with me to make our marriage better.


How?


How?


I'm just so tired of feeling this way. I'm so tired of being the one trying to change something, anything to make our marriage better. He truly seems fine with our marriage. I just know it could be better, greater, but I can not do it myself. I'm so tired and wonder if just giving up and accepting this is it would be better, at least I wouldn't keep being disappointed.

Dang,

I give good answers. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" /> Rubydoo, you have gotten very good advice, I am sure I cannot offer better. I am sort of tied up today, but when I come back I'll probably end up saying: "Ya, what they said." Actually, if I am smart that is exactly what I will say. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Aren't you glad you asked for my advice??? Look at all of the good advice you got.

God Bless,

JL

Ruby,

On the how in regards to resentment. Our MC had us do a resentment timeline...where we went back to even dating each other and then forward, chronologically, and wrote down when we resented and for what.

It was really eye-opening.

Cleared out a lot of stuff...through acknowledging, examining (not judging) and seeing where we did this in ourselves...took that poison and waited for the other person to die. (WhoDat said that.)

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/laugh.gif" alt="" />

I'm with you about being tired of feeling the same way, repeatedly...I believe our feelings are signals...they aren't good or bad...they are pure information to us, about us, from our beliefs. Tracing them to the belief they are coming from helps us to grasp why we are feeling what we are...and usually, once traced, the signal is delivered and the feeling drops off.

We have a lot of beliefs...thousands...in us. Some go back to when we first developed beliefs...two, three, four years old...and a lot we took on in our childhood, before we knew we CHOSE our beliefs.

Also, I began to choose my perspective...and my perception. Got new lines to live by (changing beliefs) about stuff...one of those was my choice to be aware...

On the ENs list...I didn't focus on my top ones...I began to look at those that didn't make the top five...and what I found was many of those were already being met well. Surprised me.

For instance, FS...didn't even feel like a need when I did the questionnaire...until I remembered a few years ago, when my DH was contemplating aloud that he might quit his job and paint for a living, doing murals, on commission. My reaction was nearly physical...the fear whipped right out of me! What, no 401k? No steady paychecks, bonuses, raises???????

He meets my FS EN really well. To say the least. When he brought that up a couple of months ago (we do, "Remember when" times)...I said, "You know, if you want to downsize all our expenses once our youngest son leaves home, and paint for a living, I believe I can carry us through the spotty parts, if there are any. What if you saved for the next two years to make that a reality, would you be interested?"

Very different. Because we're negotiating, and I'm not whipping him with my fear...oh, and lots of stuff.

Same for FC...didn't hit either of our ENs...because we fill it so well for each other. And I'm still discovering how well he really does this...even now. For instance...

He went to the doctor's office with me on Monday. And I said aloud, "You know, you've gone with me, our sons...and we haven't ever had to go for you. I just realized how nurturing and companionable that feels to me."

And he replied, "Well, I had more of a flexible work schedule than you did."

And I said, "I'm telling you I'm touched and appreciative of your choice to do that. Means a great deal to me and I'm sure, to our kids. Thank you."

"You're welcome" he answered and smiled.

He was discounting and I didn't say, "Don't do that!" He was hearing me feel guilt when I wasn't...so I said what I was feeling. I have made a lot of apologies over the last two years, to own...and sometimes, he still hears them as sorrow and shame. "I love sharing my stuff with you."

These are real...not phrases to get or meet his ENs. They do hit his ENs...and I choose to do them from my act of love...for myself (holding to my code) and to share, be intimate.

See...for 15 years I tried to change something...tinkering, twisting, tweaking...and it was pure futility because I wasn't working on myself...the only person I can change. I can choose differently every second...I have that opportunity. That's huge power right now...can't change a thing that's back then...only now...and I can't change the future...remains unknown...and everything in my life has changed drastically in the last two and half years...

And in big part, because JustLearning told me I DJ'd.

Drawing your own lines...living within them..around you...took me researching what those lines were...what humans were capable of in great ways...because I'd only focused on the terrible ones...lived them...done them.

Lots of books, a year and half of MC and MB...great formula to thrive. Self-education...and sharing what I learned about me with my DH...listening to when he shared (and discovered he shared a lot more than I was hearing before...I believe half was me tuning in through awareness and half was him sharing more). Abundance exists. It's not all or nothing...and when I spiral downward, I use that all or nothing feeling as a signal...that I'm more in my inner child than my authentic adult self. Good to know where I'm viewing from, eh?

LA

P.S. Alanon really helped, as well.

JL, thank you for responding. I am getting lots of info, but anything you want to add is more than welcomed.

LA, okay, where do I start!



Did you share your timeline with your H? My H does not want or like talking about R stuff, especially way in the past R stuff. I tried once to talk to and apologize for things I have done or said in the past and I was told it wasn't important any longer and just drop it. But then from time to time, he will "pull out" something I did in the past to use against me or to make a smart comment/comeback.

When you were examining, how did you not judge?

One thing that still hurts me to think about surrounds the birth of our first child. To this day, I still can not believe he acted the way he did. We have talked about it, but when I told him how his actions made me feel he completely turned it around on me and said thanks alot for making me feel bad about something I thought was a really great time in our life. How to I examine all of that without judging it?

How do I trace the way I felt during that situation to a belief about it?

I do know I felt very alone, not concerned or worried about, not important enough and not cherished.


Could you give me an example of this?


We had a conversation very similar to this. My H told me he wanted to pursue a certain type of art as his career. He wanted to quit his job and try making it with this artwork. I told him that I thought that was great, but due to our responsibilities, mainly small children, I thought building up this "business" and getting it to a point where we could survive financially on it, in addition to my income, would be a more secure option for our family. I think it's important to note here that he just started doing this type of artwork and hadn't sold any or researched the desire for it by others. He said, I don't know why I even brought it up, I'll just stay in a job I hate. This was the first time he ever mentioned hating his job. And refused to talk about it anymore. He now, many months later, talks about selling it to supplement our income, but that whole initial conversation confuses me and worries me. When he reacts like that, I don't know what to say. I don't know how to communicate with him when he reacts that way, blowing up and refusing to discuss it any further.


I completly get this. I know this, but it is so hard for me to do this when I am "fighting" with my H's nonaction and negative reaction. I get frustrated. I get tired of trying to make things better for us by me being better alone. And I know that last sentence is the complete opposite of "the only person I can change is myself" because I am expecting my H to change too. So how do I just accept my H is the way he is and not let the things he does or does not do not bother me or affect me?

Any good books to help me with this? On becoming a person I really love?

Thank you again for all of your help...for everyone's help.