To all who have ever gone through an EA from either side...I was wondering if these can ever just stop when the EA is brought to the attention of the WS and they are upset that they didn't realize they were hurting you. Can it stop cold turkey? or is it likely there will be relapses? I have discovered (through emails-nothing sordid just crossing the business/personal line) that a friendship H has with a coworker has been an EA but for how long, I don't know. He has worked with her directly before, but not so much now (total of about 2 years). Once I discovered this ( I posted a few weeks ago in the EN column), and pointed it out to him, he was upset not realizing he had been doing this and is gung ho to change and heal our marriage. Things have been okay so far, but OW has contacted him 2x since. Once by email to see "where have you been" and the other day by phone to ask the same question when he did not reply to the email. He explained he had been busy and was almost home from work to which he also said he had to go. He wants to just ignore her which I told him would only make her try harder (am I wrong in this thinking?). I have no desire whatsoever to contact OW myself because it would be difficult at best and because of his willingness to work on our marriage, I feel it would only make things worse IMHO. After reading alot of the posts on these boards, I feel as though I am waiting for a bomb to drop, the other shoe to drop, the world to cave in. Is it possible that it may never do that and that I caught it early enough to have avoided further hurt? He knows I don't trust him completely and that I half believe him and half believe what I read on this site and he understands why I feel this way. Our communication has done a 180 and our EN's seem to be getting met, however with the hurt fresh for me, I still go through the emotional rollercoaster, which I assume will happen for a while until I completely learn to trust him again...which I don't know will ever happen...OW is also married and OWH has cheated on her so she is emotionally vulnerable anyway and this is what concerns me...any thoughts? Thanks in advance.

Jlashley16:

Emotional affairs are real. They affect the senses just as a real affair does (minus the sex). You do create emotional ties with the object of affection and sometimes those ties are hard to break. If not stopped soon enough, they lead to sexual relations.

I don't know if it's safe to say that it's easier for men to break the connection as much as it is for women. We are all made to feel and love.

I found myself in an emotional affair with a man and for me, the only way I have found true freedom was to break all connection to this man. The constant communication inhibited my emotional freedom.

If this other woman was getting her emotional needs met by your husband, and your husband is willing to work on your marriage; I think your husband needs to end all communication. He needs to not reciprocate. If she still pursues, then maybe your husband needs to change where he works, not for his sake entirely but for hers as well.

I was the "other woman" and it's painful to not have your needs met but I've learned that God requires faithfulness - irrespective of whether our emotional needs get met - it's called Holiness.

God bless

Dear Jl,
You ask," To all who have ever gone through an EA from either side...I was wondering if these can ever just stop when the EA is brought to the attention of the WS and they are upset that they didn't realize they were hurting you. Can it stop cold turkey? or is it likely there will be relapses?"

My FWH had an EA for about a month that I discovered over the period of the last week of the EA. Once I figured out what was going on and that he had been deceiving me regarding the quantity of communication and the subtle and not so subtle ways that the communications were inappropriate, I asked him to "end it" and he did.

Over the course of the next several weeks, we talked about the EA. My FWH really saw the slippery slope and how he had been fooling himself. He has felt very embarrassed and remorseful. He has said he had no desire for further contact and no withdrawal from contact. He wrote a no contact sort of letter before I found this site. It was not a perfect letter and if I had found this site before he wrote it, we would have agreed to a slightly different letter. But it did the job.

Looking at it, I think I need "no contact" regarding this inappropriate relationship almost more that he needs no contact. I still feel resentment and confusion about what he did. I think you could not get him to contact her under any circumstances just because of his embarrassment over the relationship he was setting up and the juvenile nature of it---that is how he sees it now.

What I am saying is, even if he shows remorse and is gung ho on building your relationship, you both need no contact with this OW. Is this the case? I can't tell from what you have written. Most likely if he has any contact with her, you will continue to have triggers of grief that slow recovery and marriage building.

For me, there was no bomb, there was no other shoe.

But there has been for others on these boards.

It would be best if he writes a brief no contact letter to her and you approve it and it is e-mailed to her. Keep it simple:


To OW,

I took a look at our correspondence and communications and after thinking about it, I realize I have allowed myself to speak to you in a too personal and intimate manner. I am a happily married man (and father?) and want to spend my emotional energy on my family relationships.

Therefore, I will not be communicating with you any more and do not wish to receive communications with you.
From (your H's name)



Something like that. Nothing about how he enjoyed the relationship or that he is sorry about ending it.

He should be willing to do this. If he doesn't, she will likely continue to pursue him in some manner and he may continue to "feel sorry for her" or guilty about "how he led her on" If he feels any of this, he is setting himself up for a resumption of the EA and the fog that allowed him to justify the relationship in the first place.

So both for him and for you, there should be no contact and the only way to really ensure that is that he make a written statement to the effect that he will not contact her and ask her to no longer contact him.

This will help both of you.
Take Care,
Lake

Thank you both for your replies. I will print them off and show them to him. He was completely caught off guard by the fact that he was really doing this. He and I both understand now why it happened and we have taken serious measures to hopefully have this not happen again. Ironically, we both currently have the same 5 EN's, just in a different order (which we see as a good thing). I have a very serious need for conversation (never dawned on me until doing the EN Questionaire)...which I was not getting because of his work hours, commute, spending time with our two boys, etc. His greatest need is affection/admiration..basically coming home from work and enjoying coming home. I was making it a nightmare struggling with his long hours and never being home for dinner or spending any time with me, but I went about it completely wrong. All of the points made in the HNHN book were "DUH" moments for me and when I shared them with him he could see why we were heading down the path we were. So far so good, and we are working on getting into counseling through our church. He had to call her for something work related yesterday morning and told me about it when we had our together time last night. He realizes that he did not have to do this but knows that in order to stay on the right path (until he finds another job, which he is in the process of doing) he needs to be completely honest with me and I have told him that no matter the conversation/email, I want to know what was said. I can monitor his emails...he gave me his password but I told him I didn't want it so he doesn't know I have been checking them and so far, everything he says pans out. He has not denied anything I have asked him about or gotten defensive and he does not hide his phone so I can look at it anytime I want. I really think this was a big wake up call and I am hoping that we have no "bomb" or "shoe to drop" also. I will ask him about a NC letter and really like the format of yours as it is simple and not divulging too much emotion, yet to the point. I have met her once but would feel strange having a conversation with her because she is still a stranger to me. I would feel better with him not working there and he knows this and is actively searching for something else, but working in the new home construction business (which is very slow right now) and being our sole support, I do not want to pressure him to leave until he has something else. I have no reason to think that he has to leave his job now and until he can find something whether here or in some other part of the country, or he changes his mind about working on our marriage, I won't pressure him. I hope this gives you a little better picture of how things are now. I am pretty much in limbo with my emotions. Most of the time now my brain just hurts from overanylizing the whole thing. Knowing it won't just go away and realizing the work ahead of us is alot to swallow, but I am ready and willing to do this and so far, so is he. Thanks again...your replies mean alot to me.


WH 33
BS (me) 30
DS 7
DS 2
Married 7-1997

My best to you. As someone else on this board told me a year ago--This EA can be a dark gift to your relationship with your H. If the two of you work together, your R can be greater than it has ever been before. It is only now, after a year since my discovery of the EA, that I can see how it really affected my H and his feelings about himself. He has felt great remorse for what he did. At the time he was doing it, he thought he was just having a little verbal fun with an old girlfriend. He knew he was saying things to obtain her admiration and saying things to flatter her.

It is only in hind sight that he looks at what he did and is really embarrassed about the game he was playing and the potential for real harm to come to his marriage. We have always been a very mature couple--waited years to have children, he has worked the type of job where an A would have been very easy to do--but he always avoided any possibility of one. It shocked him to see what he had done and how much he had hurt me.

Your advice to your H about assuming that you can observe any communication he has is a good one. My H knew he did not want me to see what he was writing to OW. He knows now that that should have been a serious red flag to him, but it wasn't. Don't blame yourself for what your H did. He did it. He has to take responsibility for it. If you take on too much responsibility for his actions, I think it can lead to even more resentment later in the recovery and building process.
Lake

I had no concept of an EA until I came to MB. My husband had been in touch with his first girlfriend via "Friends Reunited" and it was secret and exciting and definitely screwed up his mind. We were going through tough times financially and I think he was confiding in her that I was a she-devil etc etc. I have absolutely no doubt that she boosted his confidence and acted as a catalyst to a physical affair.

In all honesty, I believe that the first girlfriend is a bigger threat to my marriage than the local bimbo (we live in Asia) he hung around with for two years.

Your husband appears to acknowledge that he has crossed the line. I think this is really promising and an NC letter should help to get the message through to her that he doesn't need her in his life any longer. Good luck. TT

Alrighty then...well, my optimism for getting through this fairly easily has been shot to you know where. WH had an interview for this award thing he and 16 other employees were nominated for at his company. Of course, the person who set up the interview happed to put WH and OW interview 30 minutes apart and the girl who OW rode with to the interview's appt. was in between them (OW and WH). I asked him when he called me after the interview what took him so long to call me and he replied with "They (OW and other girl) got lost coming here and asked if I had directions out. However, other girl had to go right in to her interview when I finished so I waited for her to come out"

(ME) What did you do while waiting? (knowing full well what he was about to tell me)

(WH) "I talked to OW... with the receptionist and about 20 other people around".

(ME) "I don't care if the President of the United States was standing next you, you PROMISED me you would not talk to her unless it was business and you didn't have a choice.

He conciously made a decision to talk to her when he could have just walked away and waited somewhere else for the other girl to emerge from her interview. Now, they have a dinner to announce the winners of these awards that they were nominated for and of course, no spouses are invited, just all the nominees... I have changed, trying to meet his EN's as best I can and I have accepted and taken ownership in my part of our marriage that wasn't good for the first almost 10 years. I asked him what I can do differently that I am not doing "Nothing, it's me" was the response.

"Have I not changed or tried to change so that you see a difference?" (Me)

"Yes, you are trying, it's me". (WH)

"It doesn't matter what you talked about or how many people were standing there, you PROMISED me and if you can't keep your promises, don't make them. You are obviously not over her and still attached somehow to her." (Me)

No response...

So far, I believe this to be just an EA. There hasn't been any sneaking around and H has been honest with me lately about when he talks to her/emails her. I have confirmed this through snooping. We are meeting with someone from our church Friday morning. We have been waiting for him to find another couple in our church to counsel with as opposed to going outside the church if possible and it is taking longer than any of us would like. I am SO thankful that Friday can't get here soon enough. Are my responses okay or am I being to hard? easy? EXTREMELY FRUSTRATED today and I don't even know what else to feel because none of it makes me feel any better...


30-BS (me)
33-WH
7-DS
2-DS
Married- 7-19-97

jlash...

it sounds like your husband is doing pretty much all he can do....

affairs can be small insidious acts that creep up between two people....
this doesn't excuse them...but it is part of the anatomy...

sounds like to me you got a really good husband...

you infact have more going on with your husband than a lot of other BS who would give their weight in goal to hear a smidgen of the things your husband is saying and doing....

it is my opinion that you can not slam him for having discourse with her in the situation that he was in...

it was out of his control...and not in private...

why don't you two plan a romantic get away and rock his world the night of the award dinner....

it doesn't sound like your husband is insincere in his desire to get past this...

it sounds like you are married to a 'good guy' that does what most of do...
avoid hurting people...

my vote is you are being too hard...

the man desires admiration..
and he won an award....

slurp him up....

ARK

I agree that your H should have kept his promise. There should be NC for life with this person. As Harley says...this is in spite of career sacrifices, having to move... etc... NO CONTACT MEANS NO CONTACT... nothing gray about that!

This is a good thread to help me in my sitch.

That's what I firmly believe my WW is currently involved in, an EA. It's so much harder to deal w/ in the sense that the WS doesn't see it as an A, as it isn't yet physical ( I hope <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> ).

My WW has tried to minimize her relationship to this guy from her work by pointing out his flaws, that she doesn't find him physically attractive, etc. Well, what's with the long cell ph. conversations outside normal working hours???

I believe my WW in her mind sees her relationship to this OM as harmless to our M, that she can continue being "friends" w/ him with no effect on our M.

JLash, I'm w/ Ark, be thankful that at least your H recognizes his wrongdoing and is willing to do the right thing. My WW is doing some serious cake eating/fence sitting, and I'm not that hard on her, so do count your blessings!

However, do enforce your boundaries, such as NC for life, Openness & Honest, etc., without making selfish demands as Dr. Harley teaches.

Years ago I've tried to convince myself the same thing about my "friendship" with OM...untill I disocovered this webiste and started reading material about EA's; opposite sex friendships etc.

I also didn't find the OM physically attractive for a long time (he was much older and overweight) but eventually I did because of the emotional attachement I developed towards him.

Maybe it will help if you can get hold of the book "NOT Just Friends" by Shirley Glass and let it lie around in the house for your W to read (hopefully she will read it)?

Thanks for the advice/words of wisdom. I believe that the conversation WH had with OW would not have bothered me so much had he not been so adamant about not speaking to her at all unless necessary. I mentioned that to him also. I was not trying to be rude or cruel or throwing it in his face, but we have agreed that we want to be honest and open with each other and so I was basically telling him how it made me feel. I have a terrible time of holding people to higher standards than they should be and he is one of them- I am dealing with this also. I agree with ark^^ that I do have a good husband and I am sure this will sound cliche' but I am gonna say it anyway...it is not in his character to behave this way. He didn't do it when we were dating and has never done it until now.I don't recognize him right now. I agreed with him when I posted my original posts that I understand why he felt led to begin this friendship but on the other hand, I did not force him to talk to her on his way home from work or humiliate me in past emails because I was upset with him about his schedule. He had no right to tell her that and then not defend me when she pretty much called me a money grubbing you know what who sits on her rear end all day waiting for the check to come in. No matter how mad I made him, those were blatant choices he made. If he was a horrible guy, I would be out of here, but the fact that he genuinely is a good guy makes it hard for me to know what to feel. I really felt for a while that I was making up this whole EA thing with OW in my head. As much as I hate that the conversation happened yesterday, it really made me feel like I was right. He is struggling with having just a business relationship with her. He works alongside other women in his job and none of them do I feel threatened by besides her. Plenty of other opportunities for him to stray but he just feels led to her. He says he sees a change (for the better) in the way he feels when he comes home from work and walks in the door. I told him also last night that I am not giving up, I just feel like if I don't tell him exactly how everything that comes up makes me feel, I'll explode.

This whole set of interactions is just an example of what I said was likely to happen if there is "contact" as opposed to "no contact". You are upset and acting in a reactive way that is not helpful for recovery. You are justified in your feelings of panic because he is having contact with OW. The time that you spend talking through your feelings of panic over this contact is time spent where you are not connecting with your H in a productive, marriage building manner.

Meanwhile, your H is telling you "it is not you, it is me." This contact he has with her will make it difficult for him to get any distance or perspective on the inappropriateness of the relationship he had with OW. How can there be a re-defining of the relationship (meaning how can he come out of the wayward fog) when the relationship still exists and there is opportunity for the little smiles and cordial interaction that can be interpreted from the context of the emotional affair? The potential for the seductive energy between the two of them still exists because they continue to have contact. He can continue to rationalize the contact as incidental and inconsequential, you will continue to panic and put out negative and reactive interactions with your husband. Your panic is justified even though you know he is a "good guy". Good guys slip into emotional affairs. Good guys can move to physical affairs if emotional affairs continue.

I hope he can understand that for the sake of you and your well being and sense of safety and for the sake of his marriage with you, he should establish no contact.

Work out a plan with him regarding that dinner that you can live with. I don't know what the plan will be, but be honest and loving with him when you talk about the need to come to a mutual agreement regarding the dinner that will keep you from feeling panic.
Lake

Thanks Lake for your help. I was also wondering if you or anyone else has any insight as to what a "withdrawal period" looks like. Is it still contact just diminishing or is it the time frame where there is NC and the WS is having a hard time adjusting to how M should be? I see alot of posts regarding the withdrawal period and don't know what to expect, if anything. Thanks again...

JA:

Up front, I was involved in a 4.5 year PA/EA with OW.

You can beat your H to death over this contact today.

Let me tell you mine...

After Dday, the OW came to my office. To talk. Just after she arrived, my W called. I told her that OW was here. And that W should come over.

She did. And talked with OW in a civil manner. (I was so proud of her! Thought she would knock her out!)

Then OW left. And attempted other contact. Which I informed W about. W even answered the phone the last time she tried to call.

What does this mean to you?

The OW will attempt to get in touch with your H. Your H's reaction/action to these attempts are what you need to watch.

Should he have left? Yes.

Told the W who needed to get directions to get them from someone else? Yes.

Did he tell you? Yes.

How did you react? Badly, and emotionally.

Next time there is inadvertent contact? Do you think that your H will be comfortable telling you?

Now, understand, I carried on my affair for 3.5 years before my W even suspected, so your H is a rookie.

He slid down a slope, and when called out on it, realized what was going on and made good honest efforts, that you see and recognize to avoid OW and the behaviors that resulted in him sliding down that slope.

So, if you have not, establish some boundaries. (there are others)

1. If he knows that he is going to be someplace physically close to OW location, you need to know.
2. If he knows that he needs to call her for a business related purpose, he is to let you know.
3. If he feels he needs to call OW for any reason, he calls you. And you answer.
4. If he has inadvertant contact, like the other day, he is to call you. And tell you what is happening. If OW attempts to engage him further, he continues to talk to you. And exits as soon as possible.
5. Get access to email accounts, cell phone bills and his cell phone, and check it.

And then establish what happens, what type of punishment occurs with the breaking of these boundaries.

That is the monitoring you have to do until you feel comfortable with him again. This could take a number of months, even a year.

My wife will still do it. Pick up my cell phone an scroll thru the calls.

I'm not 2x4'ing you. Your H just failed a big test. And as a FWH, I know where he is at. In those days after Dday. Your world has been turned upside down. But, your H and you BOTH, need to know the ground rules. Once my W and I established the same rules as the ones above, modified slightly for our sitch, we both knew what to do. And what to expect. And it made it alot easier for me.

LG

Hi JL,
I can speak about what happened to us with my FWH emotional affair. He corresponded by e-mail and by phone (she also text messaged him) with an old HS girlfriend. This lasted for 3 weeks. He set up a meeting with her and they met at a coffee shop. Then after an hour, he felt guilty, said it was time for him to go. She said she had no where to go and had expected to spend more time with him. That's when he decided to bring her home to meet the family. His thought was to make a relationship that he knew to be inappropriate--appropriate.

My radar went up and we "discussed issues" after she left.

Even then, he continued the inappropriate correspondence with her on the following monday.

It took much questioning from me and spying into the correspondence before he was able to see that he was out of bounds.

He readily established no contact after a week, after I had spied and was able to talk to him about what he had been doing. I was able to describe to him what he had been doing from the perspective of a faithful spouse--not from the perspective all all the fog rationalization he had created around the relationship.

However, it took no contact to help him really understand the extent or depth of the inappropriateness of the relationship. When they are in the relationship, they come up with rationalizations about why it is acceptable behavior. It takes distance from the relationship and re-framing of the relationship from the perspective of the blameless spouse for them to understand how inappropriate they have been in their interactions with the other person. My husband did not go through withdrawal. He just stopped because he saw how much I was hurting. He did not really fully understand why I was hurting at that time.

Once he had some distance from his interactions with the other woman, he was able to come out of his rationalizing fog and see that he had behaved inappropriately. He had simply been acting without really thinking about repercussions and he was just enjoying the moment--the little thrill he got out of the set of interactions.

It takes no contact for the wayward to stop acting in the moment and realize the effect of their actions on their spouse and family.

That is why no contact is important--there may not be a withdrawal stage in that the wayward spouse may not regret no contact and may not miss the other person. But they still need no contact to come out of their rationalizing fog and see the inappropriateness of their set of behaviors with the other person.

If your husband is acting as though he is still trying to protect the other woman or keep from hurting the other woman, this indicates he is still involved in the emotional part of his relationship with her. I was lucky in that my H just saw that I was hurting and he had an epiphany that he did not care about how OW felt, he only cared about how I felt. It was only after he established no contact and got some distance from the relationship that he understood what he had done and why it was so hurtful.

Hope this helps to answer your questions.
lake
Lake

Thanks for your input. I understand where you are coming from. Fortunately right now, until he finds another job (which I am not pressuring him to do because I know this is difficult and he is making effort to find one), he works onsite and she is in an office away. So the fact that daily contact is pretty much non existent helps. The fact that she is in a bad marriage with a cheating spouse does not help. He is the rescuing kind and I am just afraid that if she calls needing someone to rescue her, he'll be it. Yes, I agree that I reacted emotionally and badly and we are meeting Friday with our counselor from church and I can't wait because then I can find out from him what kind of reaction I should have had. He has been really good about telling me when he has talked to her, and deep down I know that sometimes, avoidance will be impossible because of work. I am glad he feels comfortable enough to tell me right now, but am obviously worried about how my reactions could drive him away. How in the world do I react though when something like that chaps my butt so bad I can't stand it? I don't want to lie or be dishonest? Any more advice is greatly appreciated!! Thanks in advance...

I don't think you reacted badly, but you did feel panic and reacted out of your panic and your anger showed.

I agree that you need to be honest. Is there a way that you can reframe the panic to show him your grief in a way that he will feel the need to protect you rather than to protect OW?
Lake

Well, I appreciate you being honest in your situation and I am glad that you did not have to suffer very long with your FWH situation. I will work on ways to say what I mean without showing my anger. I plan to ask our counselor that tomorrow morning when we see him.

I was really hurt last night and we have been having talks every evening for an hour before we go to bed (which is great considering we talked for about 5 minutes daily before that). Not sure if I mentioned the awards dinner that he had to go to in a few weeks that was only for the nominees (from the interview he was at on Tuesday) and not spouses to which OW would be at along with him and others. He told me last night that he told his supervisor that he had "personal business" and could not come to the ceremony. His supervisor agreed that he should take care of his business and if he can't come, then he can't come. I cannot tell you what came over me, but this humongous wave of emotion and then I just literally reached over and held onto him and just cried. I have not ever done that before. I am not an emotionally open person (used to be but that's another topic for another site) and this was such a weight remover for me. I told him that he had no idea how much that meant to me. He said he didn't care if he lost his job because of it, he knew that I would worry myself into a panic attack wondering what was going on at the dinner and he didn't want me to go through that. He said that it was time for him to step up to the plate and prove to me that he can be trusted. So, that is where we are today. I am trying to remember that there will be good days, like today, and there will be bad days, like Tuesday. We will get through this and we will make it, because we want to. I'll keep you posted on our meeting with the counselor. Thanks again for all the insight...