Ok, I need some opinions on this.
Our decree states taht each parent can take up to 4 weeks of vacation with the kids, but that vacation is not to be used to keep the other parent from seeing the kids.

1. Does 1 week include your weekend (EOW scenario,which I believe would allow a total of 10 days of vacation in a row) or not (1 week only). Must come home even if it is your parenting time.

2. X proposed that his mother watch the kids for a week, and he'd spend evenings with them, but I am not allowed to see them for the entire week. He calls this his vacation, but he's not the one spending the time with the kids. (PS grandma is great, but 35 miles away from me, and I don't like to be away from kids that long if I am around).

Opinions?

my opinion:

when he picks a week to have the kids it is really none of your business what he is doing with them. i don't mean that in a snotty way, plz don't take it that way. but really, it is not. if he wants a week of vaca and they stay with gramma that is his option. in my decree, we just have to give 30 days notice of when we want to take vaca and where the kids will be, especially if out of state. other than that it is not business or his what we do with them that week.

i usually figure 2 weekends for a vaca so as not to break up someones weekend. we try really hard not to break up weekends. so it would be sat, sun, mon, tue, wed, thur, fri, sat, sun, return monday morning.

hope that helps.

mlhb

my ex is allowed 2 weeks vacation time with our daughter. one week 7 days he has to use in full the last week of july and the other 7 days he can break up and use day here and there but with 30 days notice. his vacation time starts on saturday and ends on friday evening for the one week. (that way it doesn't interfer with my weekend with her)

I have little to say when it comes to his vacation time with her unless it's against our court order or will harm her.

Nothing and let me repeat...Nothing would keep me from seeing our daughter if I wanted to. My ex knows that and agrees with that. Same applies to him. He's welcome here anytime with proper notice to visit with her, take her to breakfast,lunch or dinner or to drop something off to her.

If you are unsure of your court order I would recommend you contact your attorney to explain it to you.

First, he never said he wanted vacation with the kids. I called to let him know how much Summer Camps costs were, and he responded by saying his mom could watch them. The vacation wording and the fact that I'm not allowed to see them during the week came in follow up. (now, I've been asking for 4 months when he planned to take time with the kids, with no answer until the $ came up).

Second, I do take my 4 weeks of vacation to visit family and for school holidays, and I do ask X if he wants to split holidays or see them when I return, but the answer (if I get one, is always no).

Third, it would be wonderful is X actually let me know where he takes the kids on vacation or when he pulls them out of school or camp. I know they go to the beach 7 hours away, to the same house, but he refuses to give me the address even after repeated requests, and will never tell me when he's bringing the kids home. Not kidding here. And 30 days notice, he can't be expected to schedule anything. (I call his mom to find out the week).

Fourth, I'm furiously typing up notes for a babysitter for my children for next week while I travel on business because their father refuses (I always ask) to care for them. (He has to pay 1/2 of the babysitter). I never keep them from him, he can only handle the time he has, and only because his mom helps. This man refused to take his daughters to the father/daugther dance.

I truly am looking for different perspectives here, as one friend agrees with MHLB. I am concerned though that XMIL left me a message that she is worried she won't be available since XFIL is dying, and who knows what will happen that week in july. Summer camp needs to be scheduled and paid far in advance.

I am planning to address this fully in the future, I just wanted some feedback from the experienced people here. Our vacation/holiday schedule was included in the psychologist's evaluation which is referenced and attached to the divorce decree, but I'm told now is not part of the actual decree. I need a motion to make it part.

As DD's counselor reminds me, he's passive/agressive. Tonight is another school performance that dad's not attending. Thankfully, IL's went to the last one, told me dad forgot. (And I type it up for him)

I would interpret it that he has up to 28 days consecutively that he can spend with the kids as "vacation" any way that he wants. He can do it consecutively if he wants, or break it up BY WEEK. And during those 28 days, it really is not your business if he's "spending time" with them or ignoring them or what...it's HIS time.

I know that since he has his cranium up his rectum it is tempting on your end to tell him "you have to actually spend time with the kids, otherwise it's not a vacation", but I think as long as he is not particularly using this "vacation" to interfere with your vacation, I don't think you'll have much of a leg to stand on. I suspect he is just trying to avoid paying the camp fees...so my suggestion would be this...ask him if he still wants his "vacation" if you cover the entire camp fee. If he says, "nope" then you know he's all about money and nothing but money, and you can figure out paying for camp some other way and just let him continue his cranio-rectal inversion. OTOH if he says "yes" it may be that the timing of the camp really doesn't work and he may have to work but wants to have the kids during the summer.

Finally, your agreement does not say it is 28 days...it says four weeks...so if it were me, I would interpret that to mean "seven day weeks at a time" not 7 days + EOW. That's JMHO, but I think since it specifies WEEKS and not the number of days, that it's either a whole FOUR WEEKS ALL AT ONCE or broken up into seven-day weeks. In fact, I'd suggest the days before the EOW and the EOW as the time to schedule the broken up weeks!

JMHO,


CJ

It's kind of tough to help you interpret the wording if you don't give us the exact wording in the decree. Even then, it's the judges interpretation that matters, not ours.

Four weeks is what it is. Cut it, dice it, slice it, flex it, stretch it. If your stipulation does not indicate that the four weeks not run continous, then he could actually send them to grandma's for the entire four weeks, whether he is sharing time with them or not.

Your stipulation likely does not say that you cannnot see your kids during his four weeks. There is not a RO in effect during vacations or EOW's for that matter. If you feel you can't be without them for any length of time, go see them. You are not prohibited. Just remember, it goes both ways.

If you are vacationing at some theme park with the kids and their dad happens to show up and wants to share in the joy...suck it up.

Ultimately, you should respect each others vacation time with the kids and let the other parent use that time with the kids however they so choose.

OH, ye MBers who actually think a parent should spend time with the child.

To date, he has taken one week vacation per year, because he mother rents a shore house, and yet he doesn't tell me when they will be home.

He does not want more time with them, nor 28 days in a row, in fact, he's told me that I am not allowed to take 2 weeks in a row (because it says week, he believes a week is 7 days and cannot be consecutive weeks - in his mind).

I do, in fact, take my 4 weeks with the kids to vacation and visit family, who are all far away.

Yhe wording actually says that vacation is not to be used to keep the other parent from the children (as I believe he plans to do).

I am surprised by the responses, that he can call it a "vacation" even if he intends to dump them on his mother and not be responsible for his own children? This is certainly not a viewpoint that I had even considered. I thought vacation was to actually spend time with your own children.

BTW, on Friday night, Grandma called to say she was going go miss the kid's performance that night, and that with Grandpa getting sicker, she couldn't be counted on to care for the children over the summer. (very different than what dad is saying).

Now, would it make a difference to the responders if dad is saying grandma will watch the kids, but instead of dumping them on grandma, he dumps them on his girlfriend?

Newly,

I think this is exactly a matter that many people get confused in "DivorceLand" and that confusion is the difference between MORAL behavior and LEGAL behavior. It is not moral (aka "right") for a father to leave his children for a ho. It is not moral for a father to inject instability and insecurity into his childrens' lives just so he can "prove his point" to their mother. It is not moral for a father to be manipulative, abusive, possessive, self-centered or heartless. BUT IT IS LEGAL.

And that's the difference in this interpretation thing.

It is not moral for your exH to take the kids for 10 days because he claims it's his EOW + 7 days vacation. It is not moral for him to keep your children from you just because he can. It is not moral for him to call it "vacation" when what he's really doing is dumping them with someone else so they don't "cramp his style." It's not moral for him to play all these games just so he can be the controlling jerk that he is. BUT IT IS LEGAL.

And our interpretations were not telling you what is moral--because that's rather obvious to anyone who has any kind of moral compass--but rather, what is LEGAL...and frankly LEGAL is fairly counter-intuitive and kind of murky!

To answer your question: I would say that if dad is D'ed from mom, and their agreement says what YOUR agreement says, that it would be morally reprehensible for him to dump them off on his girlfriend, BUT IT WOULD NOT BE ILLEGAL because your agreement is written so as not to exclude OP and because his time is his time to do with as he pleases and you, as the EX-WIFE, can not dictate your morals to him.

I know that's hard to hear. I know from EXPERIENCE because my exH was/is a serial cheater who saw our kids maybe for an hour once-a-month and then had no hesitation whatsoever to introduce Ho-of-the-month to them! It was HORRIBLE...and yet it was not illegal because our agreement said that significant others should be introduced to the children when the adults were in a "committed relationship." Sadly, HIS definition of "committed" had to do with being committed for 72-hour observation! Haha! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> All I'm saying is that rather than fighting with HIM (the ex) about not being with HO's...I taught the kids that "this is what your dad does and here's how you can deal with it and keep your morals intact." You may not LIKE the fact that he intends to dump them with Grandma...or that they might end up with his GF...but it is LEGAL according to the wording of your agreement.

Now, let me see if I can put this into a perspective for you that makes some sense. Would you ever THINK of having a discussion about this with the FED-EX man from your office? Would you tell him who he could and could not have watch his children? Would you tell the FED-EX man what his definition of "vacation" should be? No!! Of course not!! Then it's not appropriate for you to be doing that with your exH either because he is now equivalent to the FED-EX man to you. He is not related to you or connected to you. And if your response is something along the lines of "...but it's for the children"...then you teach THEM, not him. You talk to THEM about it and teach them how to deal with it and teach them how to identify good behavior and bad behavior...AND how to act when they are faced with bad behavior!!



--CJ

It seems to me that the right of first refusal would apply here. If he is not going to be with the children, newly should be able to have them.

Nellie,

I think in this case, newly's X is expressing that right. Rather than send the kids to summer camp he offered to take them for a week. They spend the days with their grandmother and he is with them in the evenings.

X proposed that his mother watch the kids for a week, and he'd spend evenings with them

I don't think this type of 'vacation' is much different than newly going to see her family. Newly may devote more time to her kids during family visits but it's all pretty much the same.

i agree with cj, and i think that is what we are all trying tos say, she just put it more eloquently.

mlhb

Thanks. It is helpful to hear different perspectives.
FedEx Man (or should I say boy). I'll need to keep that in mind.

ok....he schedules this vacation with kids....then grandma can't watch them because of fil's illness....have you asked how he is going to care for them then??? what is his plan if this happens? does he plan to pay someone if he has to and is newly then responsible for half?

Good point Nikko, and I am concerned about what happens if MIL is not available. He did say his GF could watch them. I'm already concerned about her parenting skills, but apparently, if he did this, I would have no say anyway.

Our agreement says we each pay a portion on work-related childcare costs. I always ask him to care for the kids if I am not available. He always refuses, so he'd rather pay someone than keep his children. I always keep them if he can't.
But if he's scheduled a week, I know I can't take off work. I save my time to take my children places. I think it should be his responsibility.