Hi all - <P>The following letter was composed in an attempt to win some financial concessions from my W as the divorce train accelerates.<P>My intent is not to concede defeat. I want to reconcile with my W still. However, the realist in me must acknowledge that divorce is highly likely. This letter is an attempt to appeal to her compassion...that ruining me financially as well as emotionally would completely destroy me as a human being.<P>After I recieve your comments, I plan on running this by my attorney to ensure I'm not saying things I will regret if it gets nasty. Here's my letter - it may still need some polishing. Please feel free to tear it apart - I want honest commentary.<P><BR> Friday, October 08, 1999<P><BR>My Dear W,<P>This is the most difficult and painful letter I will ever write.<P>I am still very confused by what has happened – although it has been nearly four months since you left. I may never understand why you decided to leave our 5-½ year marriage and me. As I stated in an earlier note to you, my love for you is unconditional; the door back into our marriage is open for you W. I have worked extremely hard at understanding what it takes for a marriage to be successful and loving. However, one person does not a marriage make – I can no easier make you love me than fly to the moon. Unrequited love is most damaging to one’s self esteem.<P>I will forever grieve that you found it necessary to step out of our marriage to find happiness. I never thought our differences were insurmountable – I’m finding through counseling that nearly all marital issues can be resolved if both parties make an honest effort. I truly thought we were on the right course. However, it does appear that you remain steadfast on ending our marriage as I have received a letter from your attorney requesting various financial documents.<P>From the many dreams I had in life W, three stand out. The first and most important was to grow old with you. The second was to retire early and fully enjoy a vibrant and healthy retirement. The third was to completely own a home by the time I reached 50 years of age. Your petition for divorce is a strong indicator that my first dream will not be realized. Your attorney’s request for documentation indicates that I might also lose my second and third dreams. This doesn’t have to happen, but the decision is yours to make.<P>You certainly understand how much the house means to me. I have spent countless hours and invested much blood, sweat and tears building the deck, finishing the basement, laying the patio and landscaping the yard. You also know of my dreams to install a sauna in the basement. Likewise, I have saved aggressively my entire working life to attain financial security so that early retirement is possible. You know that I have sacrificed many short-term pleasures in order to do this.<P>I ask you out of compassion, therefore, to leave me in tact financially – please leave both the house and my retirement savings to me. Your departure and decision to join with another man has exacted an extremely heavy emotional toll on me – one that I’m not sure I will be able to completely recover from. I’m asking you W, as your husband and lover for the past seven years, to show me some mercy in this aspect. Allow me at least this to help recover my humanity and self-esteem. <P>Ultimately, the decision is yours as I’m sure your attorney has told you what your rights are. Please remember that I did not ask you to sign a prenuptial agreement before we married because my love and trust in you was so complete.<P>As you are aware by now, my preference is for us to reconcile and work on making our marriage wonderful. I believe that we can make it work to be better than it ever was. I don’t want this divorce because I love you with all my heart and I always will. My love for you transcends the excruciating pain I feel – I wouldn’t feel the pain if I didn’t love you so much. However, it takes only one to end a marriage – you have regretfully decided to do so. I cannot stop you if that is what you want.<P>I leave it up to you to do the right thing; if you agree that the right thing is to leave me in tact financially, please inform your attorney. You apparently have a new life now with a very wealthy man – you will not be lacking. Please allow me to pick up the pieces of my life with dignity so I can move on as well.<P>May the peace and love of Christ fill your heart W –<P>Your loving husband,<P>Does this say what it needs to? Thanks for your critique.<P>------------------<BR>He who has a "why" to live for can bear with almost any "how".<P>-Nietzsche-

I thought your letter was sincere.<P>But I would leave out the references to her choice to be with OM, it might be taken as a lovebuster, even though it is accurate.<P>M4B

Very emotional letter. If she is a vindictive woman, she may interpret the love in your letter as you just being scared that she will take you to the bank financially! Basically that you are begging just to save yourself money!

Shattered:<P>I think it’s very heartfelt. About the only thing that stands out to me is the pre-nup paragraph. I’m sure she realizes she didn’t sign one; reminding her of it might be a bit of a LoveBuster. Not that you’re not due for a few, but at this point in time, you’re pretty much throwing yourself at her mercy, so any negative connotations won’t work out in your favor.<P>Just something upon first reading, and I may very well be wrong...<P>ps: "intact" is one word... <BR><p>[This message has been edited by WhoDat (edited October 08, 1999).]

Shattered,<P>I can hear the pain in your letter. I am so sorry. My only advice is that, depending on how angry she is at you (legitimately or not) your heartfelt plea may mean very little to her. She has not been acting in a very compassionate way, and I am not sure that this will get to her. She may feel incredible guilt upon reading this, but since she is "in the fog" of infidelity and not accepting responsiblity for her actions, this guilt may instead turn to anger at you - soliciting the exact opposite of the response you want.<P>I would probably try to get her into divorce mediation if that is an option in your state. Here you sit down with someone (atty, behavioral health professional, mediator - varies by state) who can help the two of you facilitate a settlement and it takes the adversarial "my lawyer vs your lawyer" part out of it. Other benefits are that it is often less expensive and keeps you from hating each other (a big plus if you do hold on to reconciliation hopes or at least want to remain "friends").<P>My H and I had one meeting with a mediator in late August and agreed this is how we would pursue the divorce. He has not mentioned it again since.... I think if we had both retained attys we would be well on the way to divorce by now..<P>good luck,<BR>Starpony

It sounds like you have given up. I would write more about your love for your wife and less about keeping your finances.<P>She might take this as you only being concerned about the money and not about losing her. I know you stated you don't want to lose her and you are sincere, but she might not take it that way and just construe you message. She might just use it as another excuse to justify leaving you...saying, "all he ever cared about was money, not losing me!"<P>However, if you feel that there is no stopping the divorce, I think you've handled the situation perfectly! <P>Pam

Shattered1:<P>First paragraph: leave out "Unrequited love is most damaging to one’s self esteem." I don't think it adds much, and you don't want to sound like you're drowning in self-pity.<P>Second paragraph: Reword the first sentence. You make this sound like you're going to hold the affair against her should she ever come back.<P>Down farther: leave out "I’m asking you W, as your husband and lover for the past seven years, to show me some mercy in this aspect. Allow me at least this to help recover my humanity and self-esteem." Again, self-pity.<P>The next paragraphs should be struck. Don't tell her that it's "her decision" whether to ruin you financially---you could get a great lawyer and fight this. And mentioning a prenup is "disrespectful" and you appear to be looking for pity again.<P> <BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>However, it takes only one to end a marriage – you have regretfully decided to do so. I cannot stop you if that is what you want.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE><P>Try rewording this to something like:<P>However, it takes only one to end a marriage, and you have said that this is what you want. I will not stop you, but I want you to know that I am willing to do anything in my power to restore our marriage, should you wish this. If not, I hope that you will be willing to leave me intact financially - please contact my lawyer to work out the details (why are you taking this from her lawyer???).<P>I'd end the letter at this point, with your ending. Again, don't try to appear desperate, pitiful, or vengeful. Don't be disrespectful ("leaving it to you to do the right thing" is HIGHLY disrespectful).<P>

I don't think that's a very good idea.<P>First, you are begging. Time to stop that. Especially if you want to reconcile, you are going to have to stop begging. It makes you look weak. Women don't like weak men. Very unattractive.<P>Second, any assets acquired during the marriage are 50% hers. That's just the law. 50% of that stuff is hers. No point begging her to give it to you any more than begging me to give you half of my house.<P>On the plus side the RRSP's will be divide on a "tax adjusted basis", as they are not "real" assets. Tax is still owing on them.<P>That she is with some rich guy now is good for her. Wonderful really. Wish her well. If she has the means now to live in Bermuda 2 months a year then good on her. It is of no more concern to you than the fact that Bill Gates could buy Bermuda if he wanted. It's somebody else's fortune and you have your own fortune. It may not be fair but it is life.<P>Good luck, and cheer up. I ended up with a lot more money in my pocket after the divorce than before. This is in spite of insane child support payments and day care costs. Oh, and I don't have a house. Oh well. But it turns out having a wife was actually very expensive. Just ask Bill Gates. If you want to be rich, don't get married until AFTER you are.<BR>

My, nonplused, aren’t you the cheerful sort. Almost makes me wish the new board had a middle finger icon to go with the thumbs up/down. That being said, in some ways I must agree with you... Shattered, your W, in her insanity, may well look at this and sneer. You might just annoy her to the point of telling her lawyer to take you to the cleaners.<P>Shattered, I myself would give any advice from K, whether or not you initially agree with it, about triple weight to advice from pretty much anyone here. Including me. (LOL... does that mean my advice to listen to him is only worth 1/3???) K is The Man, and if anyone here has pulled back from a brink worse than the one you now stand before, it’s him. It’s a long, hard road, and you couldn’t ask for a better guide. <p>[This message has been edited by WhoDat (edited October 08, 1999).]

I have heard before that the male divorced spouse will end up better 2 years after the divorce, than the female divorced spouse with children, despite child support.<P>I'm sure that can be disputed, but I have heard that.

I don't think you should send a letter about finances to your wife. If you want to send an "I love you" type letter, that's one thing. But I wouldn't send this letter because it attempts to link the two. By doing that, she can discount all the "I love you" stuff, and interpret the whole thing as manipulative (I'll say nice things so you'll go easy on the money). Since she's likely to look at you with distrust anyway, I don't think this approach is very risky.<P>If it were me, I would specifically stay away from all divorce-related specifics with her. Tell her you love her and are willing to accept her decisions. But once you get into finances, custody, etc., let the attorneys handle it. For all you know, her guilt might motivate her to be more generous with you. Better if she offers it than if you ask for it.<P>The other advice you got about not being needy and staying away from self-pity is very important. You want to project strength and confidence to your wife. I know you don't feel it right now (I don't some of the time too), but that's what you must strive to project.<P>Final piece of advice. I perceive you to be in a rough emotional spell right now and negative emotions are ruling you. It's best NOT TO TAKE ANY ACTION when feeling that way. Whenever you feel anger, hurt, or self-pity ruling you, make yourself a pledge not to take any action related to your wife for at least 10 days. Trust me on this one - I've been there and made the biggest mistake of all and threw my husband out when ruled by the negative emotion of anger. <p>[This message has been edited by Distressed (edited October 08, 1999).]

WhoDat,<P>Middle finger? What 'er you doing reading other people's mail? That post was directed to Shattered.<P>In repose to what I can only assume your issue is, as far as I can see the overriding issue in Shattered's letter is that he wants the house and his RRSP money. These are financial considerations and should be dealt with as such. A court will not have any room for emotional appeals on these sorts of matters. Property division is no place for emotion.<P>Plus, it's not fair. What's hers is hers, and what's his is his. What they shared is still half hers. He's lucky he isn't getting sued for support because lots of women go after that too.<BR><p>[This message has been edited by nonplused (edited October 08, 1999).]

nonplused, my only “issue” was the flippant manner in which you are treating Shattered’s <B>extremely</B> distraught emotions right now. “Wish her well” indeed. Try having a little compassion.<p>[This message has been edited by WhoDat (edited October 08, 1999).]

WhatDo, <P>Oh. I see what you mean. <P>Shattered, <P>My apologies if this is how you also interpreted my comments.<P>WhatDo again,<P>I guess I will try to explain my thoughts on that, or what I was kind of thinking when I said it.<P>I understand that Shattered is hurt, and there are big changes in the works. Things don't look good to him. Or at least shall we say that if he had his wishes filled today things would be working out differently? But in the end of the day, I don't believe he can still those emotions by blaming them on his wife, or trying to make her as upset as he is. When her relationship with the play-boy ends, she will then have her own hardships and what not.<P>If he really loves her, and if he really doesn't want to control and manipulate her, then he should be wishing her well where ever she goes in life and what ever she does. That his wife's decisions are hurting him, there is no doubt, but it is UNLOVING to wish her anything but the best. It's that sort of love for another person that will make him the man she wants to be with. Not this "Look how awful my life is going to be now. Look at how good you life is going to be" stuff. It has me, me, me written all over it and she isn't going to find it attractive.<P>We all have to look after our own emotions, as hard as it is. When we start to try to make another person responsible for them, we in essence relinquish control over how we feel to that person. Instead I believe we need to have a bit of the ability to show loving actions and be kind even to someone who has hurt us. You can only do that if you do not try and put your emotions on someone else. "Turn the other cheek, love thy enemies" and all that jazz.<BR>

Hi Shattered -<P>I am sorry that you are feeling so badly and wish there was something I could do or say to help you feel better....but there really isn't. Everything about all of this just plain stinks!!!<P>My thoughts on the letter are that if your wife had any of her marital distress caused by her feeling neglected or second to your working or fixing up the house and socking away the money...this letter will bring those feelings up to boiling and confirm to her that she was right!!<P>I don't know what HER REASONS for having an affair were or what problems were between you two, but if ANY TINY BIT of them were about your time, work or money and house....your setting off a powder keg with bringing this things up.<P>Hope this helps and I'm sorry that you are feeling hopeless......<P>HUGS,<P>Sheba<BR>

Hey Shattered, <P>I second what Distressed said. I wouldn't send a financial request letter. I understand the need to look out for your financial interests and I think you should do that through legal means. If she pushes, I would suggest a legal separation instead of a divorce. You can keep finances pretty much in tact until she hopefully comes to her senses. After all, didn't you say her OM is married? Your wife wouldn't have any chance of marrying him if he has no plans of getting a divorce himself.<P>I would compose a love letter that describes your feelings right now. I gave my wife several during my darkest hours and she kept them and I know she read them several times. <P>Be strong my friend,<P>SHA

Shattered - <BR>Haven't posted here for awhile (have had my hands full with my own 'things').<P>I have been following your story tho - I'm inclinded to agree with those comments that say not to tie the comments about love with the money piece. It sounds (sorry to be blunt) that you are desparate and begging for mercy. Instead, I'd focus on a letter a about your love. Once it comes to the financials, leave it to the lawyers. She may interpret this as a pathetic grasp to save your financial future and not the love you have for her. JMHO.

Thank you all for your unedited comments. It seems that many of you feel that this letter screams "me, me, me". While I certainly have no interest in conveying a greedy attitude, your comments have given me much to ponder.<P>However, let me assure all of you that the intent of this letter is not to communicate that my primary considerations are financial. My W clearly understands that I wish for reconciliation. However, she has made it equally clear to me that she does not. To understand our marriage, you must understand that my W and I value money differently.<P>I came into the marriage with a sizable net worth, while she was in debt. She is fully aware that I have been planning and dreaming of one day retiring early and enjoying the fruits of our labor. The only trouble was, she never cared to look long term herself. Every dollar she had access to was spent. This was one of our major differences.<P>I'm not trying to appear greedy. I just know that OM is wealthy; he has brought her on extended vacations to San Francisco and Barcelona Spain with him already. He drives a large Mercedes and is an executive in a Fortune 500 company. He buys her very nice and expensive things. She doesn't need the money.<P>Nonplused, I'm fully aware of the legal rights of my W when it comes to marital assets. You are right, she is legally entitled to 50% of the marital assets. However, from where I sit, I feel that she doesn't have to ruin me financially as well as emotionally. If I had cheated on her, I would expect her to come after me with both barrels. She has nothing for me to go after...she hasn't saved a dime throughout our marriage. It's always spend, spend, spend with her.<P>It would kill me to know that the money I saved for OUR retirement in OUR golden years will instead be spent on OM...the same OM that is sleeping with MY W and has RUINED my life. I feel that I have nothing to lose by appealing to whatever sense of fairness she may still have. NOTHING can ever make up for the emotional devastation I have sustained by her actions. However, a financial concession would restore just a little piece of dignity.<P>The advice given here runs the entire spectrum, from "go for it" (with modifications) to don't do it because it appears weak. I must say that there are very good reasons you all have for your advice. I think I will need to sleep on it and see how I feel in the morning.<P>Again, thank you all for your critiques.<P>------------------<BR>He who has a "why" to live for can bear with almost any "how".<P>-Nietzsche-

Shattered-<BR>With such widely differing views on finances, its seems that the financial plea may be perceived as a lovebuster to her. If she was the spender and you were the saver in your marriage, she may "hear" more of what she has "heard" throughout the marriage. <P>My H is pretty "carefree" w/his spending and it urks me to no end as I am the financial manager of the household. So I can empathize w/any frustration you may have in that regard. But remember, if she has a great need to spend (i.e. financial support) and she has a "sugar-daddy" now to fill that need...how will she perceive your request for financial compassion? Unfortunately, it may seem like "more of the same" from you.<P>I do understand, however, the basis for your request. A close friend of mine recently left her H and moved in w/her dad until papers could be filed to get H out of house and her and kids back in. He begged her to not take his house. He even offered to buy her another house, just so he could keep his house. She couldn't understand his "attachment" to this house. To me, it was as if his entire world was crumbling and he wanted to hold on to part of his "foundation" HE had built...much like trying to keep some part of his world intact. Sound familiar?<P>Since finances are very important to you, you may be best served by letting legal resources deal with this. You may save yourself some heartache in the long run.<P>Good Luck and God Bless!<BR>

Shattered we all know how you feel about W.<P>That doesn't come through at all in your letter. Personally I'm averse to putting anything in writing about assets.<P>I know you've given this letter a lot of thought, but I wouldn't send that letter at all - but I'm not a lawyer, a therapist, a mediator, nor am I in your shoes. It sounds more like a mercy plea which is probably going to fall on deaf ears.<P>Make it clear what you want in settlement to your lawyer. Make him work. Does he think any kind of letter will help? How does he think you could best achieve what you want? Someone suggested Mediation - that would be worth a try. Did you have assets prior to the marriage? If you can prove it then doesn't that change the division of property?<P>If you must send a letter you want sow some seeds, let her know how you truly feel about her, that you are granting her wish - a divorce, that you will be stronger because of this experience, that you never want to close the door on her, that somehow you want to maintain the home so that she will always have somewhere to visit you. <P>Perhaps you could share your dreams (1,2,3,) except try to include her in each one. Your letter sounded more like what you wanted for you.<P>As SHA said in time your wife will grow tired of sharing her OM, or he'll move on to someone else, after all he has no ties. It's just a matter of time.<P>Shattered this is very difficult time and you've shown great courage to share with us. Everyone on this board wants to help you. I hope that among all the responses you can find enough words of wisdom to move in the right direction for you. <P>------------------<BR>It's always darkest before the dawn