I need to know what to do when my H says nothing is wrong but acts as if it is?

DIG....

You need to have more than that!

It's like the husband asking the wife how she's feeling and the wife says....

"FINE"

Uh-oh.....

There's trouble.

We don't know what we did wrong, but we know it's something....



However:

DIG, W and I had this same problem, for many years. We all are allowed to be moody. Have a bad day.

Hey, works sucks, the weather is bad, you got cut off in traffic, the mocha latte machine was out of cream.

Sometimes, the reason can be external to the relationship.

And now, we do talk about it.

If one of us gives the "fine" and or "nothing is wrong" lines, the other can just let the other person be, or they can stop, and ask: Radical Honesty? and we have committed to verbalizing what we are feeling. And the other person will let them get whatever is on thier chest out. This has resulted in some doozies... and often, just some misunderstandings... That now that they are in the open, can get discussed and addressed.

Didn't exist prior to us finding MB.

So, what do you think was wrong?

LG

Golfer is spot on, I've been learning recently that a lot of times my WW just simply had a bad day at work. Her job is very stressful, and in the past, I couldn't recognize that I was NOT the cause of her being agitated, that I had simply caught her at a bad time.

I'm now understanding her better and just "let her be" when she's frustrated. She'll usually afterwards be a lot more amicable and pleasant and share how her day went.

Thank you LG & SP for you replies. I really appreciate them.

I asked him again when he came home and he said that he was frustrated because he kept getting back to back calls and I called around the same time all of this was happening.

I thought I had did something wrong. Now I know that it wasn't me I feel better. I wish he had just told me that he was having a hard time. I would have been able to be understanding. The being open and honest is a really good thing. It can make things so much easier.

Now that we have that out the way can any give me any advice on talking to my H about the Plastic Surgery. I talked to him about it again and he still feels like it is redundent. I however don't feel that way. I want to feel better about my body after having kids. When we were talking I told him if it were him and he had the same issues I did with his body because of the kids he would feel the same way as I do. Then he replied that would never happen to him and I said if it did would he want to and he didn't answer letting me know if it were to happen he would feel the same way as me but if he had answered he knew that he would be siding with me. I don't know what to do. It's something I feel I really need.

Ok something else

DIG:

I should avoid this Plastic Surgery stuff. But my better sense eludes me...

Read thru the Policy of Joint Agreement. And work thru trying to get something that is POJA.

You want this. Do not project on to him what you want. He CAN NOT be in your shoes on this one.

You need to discuss this in manner where he will really give you what he is thinking about.

He could be thinking:

You look really great to him and do not have to do anything.
You could go into surgery and come out dead.
That it is real expensive surgery.
If only DIG would get off the couch for 15 minutes of exercise each day she could accomplish the same things.
You know, while you are in there, could the doctor take an inch off the nose?

DIG:

You don't know me, I'm some guy west of the Mason-Dixon Line.

I CAN State the above reasons. Not to hurt you, but to help you understand the things your H STILL can't say to you.

Until your H can state his feelings on this subject with out fear of reprisal, than you can't get him to agree to this.

Understand?

And once that starts working, the POJA? Piece of cake.

LG

.

I understand LG. My H may well think some of the things you mentioned. I think it's more along the lines if fear that he is not willing to says yes. I had a c-section with the two little ones and the incisions came aloose both times and he had to take care of me and he thought it was really gross but he did it because he loves me.

The thing is I do workout today I did a body sculpting class and a water areobics class for an hour. I have been exercising since Jan and it's looks the same. My skin streched due to the babies and no amount to crunches in the world fixes loose skin. He knows I have been trying really hard to fix it and that's what kills me.

OH and LG for the record thank you for answering me it is really helpful even if you are scared my fellow ladies may ATTAAACK!!! LOL!

DIG:

I see it as a problem that you went to the doctor without your H being agreeable to the surgery.

That's INDEPENDENT BEHAVIOR..a BIG LB according to the HARLEYS...

Remember how I suggested for your H to go along with you? My H got to know the doctor, the nurse and the office staff...that helped him feel more comfortable with it as he was a part of the whole situation...

If I may ask, how are you planning to pay for the surgery?

Isn't he the primary breadwinner?

This is definitely a MAJOR POJA ISSUE like LG is saying which bothers me about you going ahead with the consultation.

I made A BIG MISTAKE IN MY PRE-AFFAIR MARRIAGE of being too independent and disregarding my H wishes...

It's important to learn to compromise, DIG..can't get everything that we WANT you know...

Recall that I said that my H was/is agreeable to this...

There are other things that I want to do that he says NO to and that's OK with me...same with me...I say NO to some things and OK to others..as long as we feel like we are working together as a TEAM and CONSULT with each other...

READ UP ON POJA..don't do anything unless both of you feel OK about it...or work out a way that can be possible...using me for example, I had saved up some money for my surgery..that certainly helped my H feel better about it..

Ok Mimi and LG. I am so sorry it took a while to get back to you. I have had a very busy but very good weekend. I hope you guys did too. I agree with you both. I definitely think that it is a POJA issue. Also Mimi me going to the Dr without letting my DH know was independent behavior, however I did it so I would be able to give him all the info to any questions he might have had to ask.

I know I can't get everything I want I have been reading up on the POJA and I got my LB book so I am trying to get us to a point to where we are both happy. As far as paying I plan on using my credit card. If he wants me to get a job to pay it off I will be happy to do just that.

I asked him to be honest and tell me what was it that made him not agree with the surgery. He said that he is afraid something may happen to me and I asked him if he came with me to see the Dr and he could ask any questions to to put his mind at ease would that help and he said yes I guess. Then I asked if there was anything else and he said yes that with me being off my feet he would have to take care of all the things around here that I do and with him going to work that it will be very stressful and I asked him if I got someone to stay and help us while I was off my feet would that make him feel better and he said he guess so. So we will see. Wish me luck.

BTW How was your Mother's Day?

Wouldn't it have been better for him to ask HIS questions right then and there DIRECTLY from the doctor rather than indirectly through you? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />



What's it with the "YES, I GUESS". I don't like it when my H says "I GUESS". I usually respond by asking him to be CLEARER and/or more SPECIFIC about what he is ACTUALLY SAYING. Does it mean YES, NO or REALLY MAYBE SO?

To me, it seems like you guys are continuing to NEGOTIATE and more DISCUSSION is NECESSARY.



Here we go again with the "GUESS SO"...

For POJA, both of you have to ENTHUSIASTICALLY AGREE WITH THE PLAN.

Sounds like you need to schedule another doctor's appt. for you both to go on so he can be reassured by the dr. that you will be OK...maybe you can schedule the surgery during a time that he can take off from work...YOU SEE?...do try to help address HIS CONCERNS..DO NOT BUY HIM SAYING "I GUESS" to you...you want his ENTHUSIASTIC AGREEMENT...like my H saying: "By all means, I agree you need to have the surgery or whatever...."OR you don't have it...

DIG:

See how much better the second conversation went.

Never go to your Dr. about something like this unless your H is there and ONBOARD.

Mimi can go now, because her H is ONBOARD. That's POJA working there.

In my line of work, I get to talk to both H & W, Just the H, or Just the W. And sometimes, H calls to check on the W and vice versa. No matter how much I have explained to one party, the other wants to verify the info because one party is biased. And in this discussion, you are biased.

You went to the Dr to get all the answers that H might have. You could never have all the answers, cuz you don't know what they might be. Your concerns are way different than his.

And then you do talk and what comes out?

He's afraid you might not come out of it OK. Real tough for a guy to admit this. He's scared for you. And he doesn't want to show that fear in front of the Dr.

And the next one, He would have to take care of things while you wern't available. Pretty scary there too. WHen he isn't working, he isn't making money. And when he isn't making money, then even more stress in the Household.

So, take your time. Involve your H and get to enthusiastic agreement. Your H can delay the surgery forever, but I don't think he will

And for this:

"Charge it to a credit card" Cool! Noone has to pay that back? Can I get one!

DIG, this is as foggy as it gets. The credit card needs to get paid back somehow. You are defering payment, you are not covering the cost of the surgery.

And you can get a job? Than do so. But don't get it because you want plastic surgery. Get a job because it makes sense for your FAMILY But, this should be a POJA decison too. Your going back to work. Do not do it unilaterally.

OK?

LG

DIG,

So far I agree about the POJA thing.

I am only chiming in here because what you and your H are going through are really very similar to what my FWW and I went through.

I will not pretend to know you guys well enough to say we are exactly alike.

Here was our scenario. We had two kids. My FWW had a small chest before the kids. After 2 kids and breastfeeding she hated the way her breasts looked. She also had saddle bags that she hated.

So one day after trying she came to the conclusion she wanted surgery.

I felt a lot like your H did.

Now when it came to the money part is where we disagreed a lot.

I like to have a cushion in our Account. My FWW wanted to use the cushion and then some.

I wanted to save for the surgery and wait. She wanted it yesterday.

Sooooo. Without consulting me or discussing it or POJA'ing it she starts calling doctors. I wasn't on board at all at this point.

Once the doctor says "we can fix this and this and this and here is my sales pitch" Her desire was even stronger.

Well I lost she got the surgery.

Spent our cushion then some. I lost my Job, company went bankrupt. I needed the cushion. Oh well.

She didn't work at the time either. SAHM and she kept saying she would get a job. So we made the decision for her to be a SAHM, because that was what was best for the kids.

She wanted the surgery she would get a job. Well with her job came more expenses. LIke day care so it wasn't practical anyway. But eventually I just gave in.

To this day it wasn't fair IMVHO. I didn't know about POJA.

I feel like my FWW went behind my back to get what she wanted and applied enough pressure to get what she wanted.

I felt like I had two choices her getting it or her getting it. So she got it.

Now if you really want to learn from this I would say. Talk to your H and tell him how important it is.

Then jointly figure out a savings plan to pay for it. I don't know if you can sock some money away. So maybe if you get mani pedi's or something you can give that up for a while.

Whatever you agree on should be lived up to.

Ok you guys I agree with you all already.LOL.<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I must have mis wrote my reply or something. I have every intention of bringing him back with me when I go. I have already asked him if he wanted to go and guess what his reply was? You guess it. I guess. So we will see. Frog I know exactly what you are saying and I use to be alot like your W just pushing until I got what I wanted but I know now that when I do this that if I win that means he loses and I don't want that either. I love him and I don't want to hurt him to get what I want because I know that would not make him feel loved.

I wouldn't want him to do that to me.

As far as me paying with a credit card he doesn't have a problem with me paying with my credit card and I know he doesn't want me to work either because I had gotten a job at the post office and he was upset because he thought because of me working that he was going to have to tend to the kids more often. So I don't think he would agree to that. I can try and save some money. I am sure even if I wasn't doing it for the surgery he would be happy about that one.LOL. So I guess I have to cut back on the things I do so I can use the extra cash for this since I really want it. Frog my H likes to have a cushion as well. It's one of the things I really love about him he is not cheap and he is very responsible with money. We have a good life thanks to God and him and I wouldn't want to do anything to risk that in anyway.

Have you considered dropping the idea of the surgery for now? Just letting him know it's something you really want to do, but don't bring it up unless he wants to? Maybe set a date to discuss it again in 6 months?

I am willing to bet there are other reasons he is uncomfortable with it. He may not even really know what they are. Just that he feels uncomfortable. It's very difficult sometimes for a man to admit to some things that bother them.

It will take a while to change his perception that you are always going to get your way. Really depends on the depths you used to go to make things happen.

I percieve your visits to the doctor and collecting info "for him" as pressure to get what you want. How could he possible say no to the whole deal, when he's agreed to all the little things that lead up to it?

I'll bet he feels like he is slowly sinking into the quicksand. His answers may seem more "distant" and less assertive during the next round(s) of conversation about it.

DIG,

Your H sounds like a smart guy. LOL.

For me I have two columns for finances Needs and Wants.

Needs if necessary I will finance. Wants I will never finance. Everyone has their own list for these.

Like I can say I need a TV. The one in my living room is on the fritz. Do I need a 60" plasma HDTV with 16 inputs and a univeral remote for 10k. NO.

So I buy my TV with cash on hand. Now lets say "I" want that TV. I give up going to lunch out and dinner out for a while until "I" have saved the difference.

The way I have always looked at my Family dynamic is that if I get something like that my wife and kids will end up giving up something.

Let's face it we each aren't spending 10k on ourselves. LOL.

I didn't want my FWW working at the time because she assumed the money she made would go for the plastic surgery. LOL.

I pay the daycare and all other associated child expenses and she keeps her entire net pay.

Well our bills would go up with her working. Subtract that from her pay and she would be working 2 years to pay for it.

So I agree with windstopped. Drop it. Leave it and start saving.

Do not try to end around your H. If he is opposed to it you should respect it.

Do not use the "it will be fine" argument either. If he is concerned about your health after you should explain to him with stats 1 in 1 million people.....

If it is finances. I have alread saved x amount by clipping coupons and giving up Starbucks and manicures.

What ever his concerns you should address them. Just my opinion.

Hey WS nice to see you again. Long time no hear from. I agree with you and Frog. I think I will leave it be for the time being and put some money aside and see if he brings it up again. I know it would be a good idea to save up for what I want and that way he will have a lot less to worry about. I will keep you all posted.

BTW thanks so much for all of your input. You guys are the best. I am not just saying that. You all are life savers.

I think WS' post to you was PERFECT. My H got into that pattern of not being HONEST with me when I was deadset on my INDEPENDENT BEHAVIOR. It was the RECIPE FOR MARITAL DISASTER. I'm recalling all those occasions that my H would say.."I GUESS"...

I'M GLAD YOU ARE HOLDING OFF ON THE PS...

DIG,

I want to stress though that if you want it you shouldn't abandon the idea.

Just listen to his concerns and try to address them. Try to understand if there is anything you can do to calm them.

Work toward a mutual understanding of what it will take for him to enthusiastically agree.

He should be honest with you though about it. If he is going to just throw out concerns instead of saying. I never want you to get it and I will never agree.

My FWW saw my concerns as excuses or reasons I wouldn't let her.

Our MC stopped her one time and said he isn't giving you excuses he is telling you his concerns.

If you want him to agree you don't get angry and tell him he is just making excuses you address his concerns and hopefully he will get on board. Assuming you address the concerns with something better then "it'll be fine"

So I am happy you are putting it to rest for a while but while you do make sure you are working toward resolving some of his concerns.

I hope that made sense.

Hey Frog and Mims!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> How are you guy doing today? I am happy I clean my house from top to bottom and I have lost 13 lbs. The only way things could get any better is if my H gave me a straight answer and we work together to come to an agreement we can both agree on about the surgery.

Frog I have no intention of letting go of what I really want because then I would lose and be unhappy. And yes my DH is a wise guy.LOL. I to like to crack wise. We have a lot in common.

I think I will say at least $200 a month for six months and bring it up again. I was kind of hoping to get it done this summer because it would be easier to get help during that time. I will see and pray on it and I am sure it will work itself out.

And yes Frog it did make sense. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> Is that how you wished your W would handled it?

Mims I know just what you mean. Neither of us can act on something of this level without the other being fully on board. What should I do if he doesn't want to compomise?

I think my DH is insecure and the more I do to take care of myself and look better the more he freaks out. He notices the attention I get and gets crazy. I think it may be because of my history with being raped that he reacts this way. However I don't think I could ever get him to admit that.

What is a girl to do? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />

Dig,

Good for you!!! Sounds like a great plan.


Yes. I believe if you really want something then you should be willing to sacrafice to get it. I grew up like that.

We didn't have a lot of money. If I wanted a new bike I worked and saved for it. Mowing lawns etc. there was not credit card for me. LOL.

I brought that into my adult life. I make pretty good money. My car is 12 years old with 178k miles on it. I am thinking of upgrading so I am saving some money and then when I have enough I will buy a newer used car. I do not need or want two car payments and I do not need a brand new car.

I am actually trying to get out of payments I have now because of the FWW spending habits. I think I am about 3-4 months away from that except for my student loan but that has low interest so I doubt I will pay that off.


You may have hit on something here. I don't know that is why and you shouldn't guess. LOL.

I can say I was a little resistent because of the attention I knew my FWW would be getting. No man wants their W gawked at.

IMVHO my FWW plastic surgery was the first step toward her A.

The new attention she received and the sense of entitlement she had. The entitlement really started there then just snowballed.

I can't undo the past so no use crying over it.

She does however want to go back and undo it because she said she was done having kids so the surgery makes sense.

Now she wants a kid. I am opposed.