Ok Frog I have to ask how old is the youngest child? I don't know if I could start over after the child makes a certain age. I agree with you on that one.

So let me ask you something do you think it's because of this

Quote:

No man wants their W gawked at.

I could see that as well. I don't know and I am sure he would not tell me if that were the case. LOL. He would think if he did that it would go to my head and according to him it's already big enough. LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I don't know if your wife's PS caused her to have an affair. I do however think that the distance that she caused by the independent behavior she had by doing it without you guys coming to some sort of agreement where you could both be happy caused the distance along with whatever problems you all had in your relationship that lead to the conditions that made her vunarable to the A.

They have plenty of women that have PS that don't have A's. Mimi did and she hasn't had one.

Frog what does your W wish she had done differently?

Dig,

You got questions, I got answers. LOL.

My youngest is 7. There is a long history but in short my FWW got her PS shortly after my YS was born. Said "I am done having babies." So she made that decesion. Now she doesn't like that decesion.

Either way for me it is a little too late for kids. I love kids and I would have really considered having one shortly after YS was born. As the M deteriorated for many reasons there was no way it would happen and she didn't want one then anyway.

I didn't say her PS caused her to have an A. I really believe the destructive behavior started then and continued until she had the A. I also know that before the A she dressed differently and she acted differently.

The PS gave her "self esteem" she didn't have. She started noticing and liking mens attention more. But I think that is only a contributing factor.

I say it started there because that was the first of many entitlements that my FWW got by bullying me into submission,

No POJA. I of course relented after months of trying to go about it the way I suggested to you.

From that time on I basically was like a doormat. She wanted something she did it.

Even the trip back east for the summer with my kids she just booked the tickets even though I said we needed to talk about it. She had said previously she wasn't taking the kids.

So I think the PS was the start of the dynamic that gave her the sense of entitlement that she could do whatever she wanted.

I don't know if it makes sense. But I see that decesion and the way it was made as the starting point.

I have to say FrogNM, you and your W sound a lot like we use to. I remember last year for my H's B-day I asked what he wanted and he said nothing so I just thought he was saying that to be modest. I booked us a hotel at the Marriot and got tickets to a comedy show and arrange for a sitter for the kids. We went and had a really great time and I was so happy. Then after we came back my H said that he told me he didn't want anything. I thought we had such a great time and he said he did too but because I didn't listen to him and I did what I wanted to do he was angry.

I love my H very much and I have to say I am sorry I didn't take him at his word more often. Then I wouls have made him feel like I cared about his feelings. I feel so bad because I too felt like I wasn't heard and it felt awful and then to realize I was doing the exact same thing to him and I knew i had to stop or ruin what we had.

I understand exactly what you mean. You think she lost respect for you because she could bully you and get her way, and because of the loss of respect she was able to have the A? Is that what you meant?

DIG:

You ask you H what he wanted for his Birthday.

He said "nothing"

So you went and got comedy tickets, hotel rooms and sitters.

Great surprise! I would have really enjoyed that W put that together.

I'm tough to buy for....

However.

What did your H want?

He said "nothing"

Slow down and listen. "Nothing" means everything, and more.

"Nothing" could mean that he doesn't feel there is enough cash available to buy him something he would really like.
Maybe he just wanted to stay home and read the newspaper.
He might have liked to play a round of golf/go fishing/visit somebody else.

I'm not 2x4'ing you here.

Really, I'm Not.

Cause this same dynamic exists in my M.

Somewhat in reverse.

I could plan something special like you did for your H, for my W's B-day.

She used to say, that's a real nice gift but you got to participate too...

It wasn't personal enough for Flamingo.

See the difference.

"Nothing" isn't an answer. That is on him. He needs to get more descriptive.

I've learned from this. Her Birthday/Valentines Day/Christmas etc, gifts have to be for her, and about her. Not her being selfish, just her wanting to be special.

So, relax and listen more. Let him talk.

LG

I could not agree more with you LG. I could learn to pay more attention. He has a hard time saying what he really wants and I think that this too is a reason I wouldn't listen well back then. I knew he had a hard time saying what he did and didn't want and now I know that may be the case sometimes like with the whole PS thing but it is not the case all the time and I should never take either for granted and always ask.

SO yes because of this I have a hard time getting him gifts. I know I will benenfit so much by learning to listen more. I am working really hard at fixing this.

Also I have to say I asked him last night if he felt I was being a better W and he said yes. I felt great because I have been really trying to be.<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> (I wish they had a pat on the back graemlin if they did I would insert here.) I think he is being a much better H too. I actuly miss him now when he is gone and I think it's great because it lets me know I am feeling connected to him again. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

DIG,

Just a point of clarification it is no longer that way!!!!

Lots of underlying problems created that entire dynamic it wasn't just the PS but I think that is what started the entitlement binge she went on.

The point was that her decesion to have PS and the way she went about getting what she wanted started us down a very slippery slope.

The way decesions were made before that decesion were different then after.

Basically it seemed that my FWW went away from a somewhat POJA decesion making process to a Policy of I want something so I am getting it and you can't stop me unless you want me to make you miserable. My part in it was I let it happen.

That doesn't happen any more.

Now regarding the gift I think LG is right on.

Again if my FWW wants to do something nice for me I think that is great but we need to budget for it as well.

Things cost money. I am the finance person. I offered to have my wife be a part of it. The MC suggest she be a part in it. Part of our problems were she didn't like asking me to spend money, not like 20 or 40 dollars but like a couple hundred. She had too because she didn't know how much we had. So the offer was made she declined now she asks and if we have it it is all hers.

I digress though. So when my birthday comes and she says I want to.....I say no thanks we don't have the money then I get anxious while we are doing it wondering what bills I have to push to make this work.

So if he says nothing please just dig a little deeper.

My FWW says now "I am not getting you nothing so either tell me or I will guess and just spend whatever." I become a dang open book. I would like............

Now our communication is much better. She understands she can't avoid helping with the finances and not knowing about the finances and have the right to just spend.

IF I have to budget for us and pay the bills etc. then she needs to ask if we have the money to do something. My part is I never say no if we have it. I dont' make any big purchases without her consent either.

Things seem much better that way.

I knew that things were no longer that way <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> Crazy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> I meant is that how they used to be. I was trying to understand the dynamic so to speak.

As far as his b-day is concerned I think he would just like to go one week without having anything planned he hates the fact that he always have to be somewhere at a certain time. He feels like his time is not his own. I think that's why even though we had fun he was angry because I planned something on his time yet again. I know money wasn'nt the problem because I do the books so to speak around here.LOL.

I wonder how much a bookkeeper makes. I can add that to my list of jobs around the house.

As far as the communication goes we are getting there. I am happy. It's getting better everyday thanks to the wonderful brilliant people here.

Another thing. Because I do the books he asks me if it's ok to make certain big purchases and because I knew what we could spend I wouldn't ask and I would just get what I wanted and he was angry about that because he felt like I should have consulted him and I was like well you are not my dad why do I have to check in with you? However now I see that he just wanted the same consideration he was giving me and I felt like I didn't care what he brought because he was grown like me the same attitude I had about my spending habits now I have changed. It is a lot better.


However he is still telling me do whatever you want to do Maryam and I am like no I want your input your opinion matters to me as much as mine does. I think he is starting to get that I have changed. I feel bad for my past behavior and how I must have made him feel. Still I know that when you know better you do better.

Hi, DIG:

Your getting it on the finances.

Remember, i'm the CPA... So finances are easy for me....

One of the things we do is make a ist in January, around the first, where we list the things we would like to accomplish in next year.

Everyone gets a say, Mon, Son and Dad and you can make any request you would like. Some of it is dreaming, but much of it is practical and attainable. And that is the important part. Because if it can get on the list, it can come about.

Vacations
Major house repairs
Upgrades of electronics
Trips
Fun
Savings goals
Etc.


This is where we make some agreements so that the family and the H&W have an idea where the next year and even some future years is going.

And some can ride on the list for several years, until a savings or other goal is reached.

I don't worry about the cost of underwear in my house. But I can't come home with that 54" plasma TV I keep lusting after.

For example, DIG, you could add the PS to your list.

LG

That's a good idea LG. I need to come up with a budget and this will definitely get me started. Thanks for the great advice.

LG I want to ask you something. My DDH let me get a tread mill and I promised to use it however it got boring just doing that and nothing else so I went to the Y and got a free membership pass and I love it. I asked him if we could join and he said yes now I want to take the tread mill back because I don't use it because I take areobics classes at the Y. How can I do this and safe face. He was kind of heistant about me getting it because he didn't think I would use it and I was but now I have found something more interesting I want to take it back.

I guess he was right. LOL However now I am afraid he will think less of me because I am doing just what he thought I would. How do I handle this? Please help. Anyone

I would think less of you if you tried to figure out a way to get out of it without admitting you were wrong. LOL.

If you said, Honey you were absolutely 100% right about the tread mill. I got bored. I am so happy with my free membership to the Y I think I want to take the tread mill back.

I think he would appreciate your Radical Honesty.

It also takes the wind out of the I told you so, he might want to give you.

Thank you FrogNM you are 100% right. LOL I think he would too. If he knew I was trying to get out of admitting that he was right and I was wrong.

Do you think it will make him less likely to put his trust in me anymore because he knows how I get bored with things real easy. I love the Y because if I get tired of doing something there they have something new to try. Besides that I can leave the kids and not have to worry about trying to find time to squeeze in to take care of myself. I know if Marsh chimes in she is going to get me for this


Do you think it will make him less likely to put his trust in me anymore because he knows how I get bored with things real easy.

She knows I have issues with trusting myself. I am working on it though. LOL

Dig,

I heard a saying I like "Learn from the mistakes of others, you can't possibly live long enough to make them all yourself."

The reason I like it is that it has two distinct lessons maybe more. One which of course is learn from others mistakes.

The other underlying message is we all make mistakes. Lots of them. LOL.

Admitting to a mistake takes a big person. Learning from that mistake takes a smart person. Be a big smart person admit you were mistaken, and in the future you won't make that same mistake again.

On the bright side I have told others so they can learn from my mistake so it was worth it.

Thank you for being so understanding. LOL

Admitting you are wrong is very disarming.

I did it FrogNM and it was hard to do. All he did was smile and shake his head. I told him thank you for trusting me and for not fussing and I gave him a kiss. I can't say I feel better but I am glad I told him. I think he was happy I told him. But then again who wouldn't like to hear that they were right about something.LOL Ah well. I have done my good deed for the day.

So now you are a bigger person. If you don't do it again you are a smarter person. LOL.

You know I love my wife and I realize there are times she knows me better then I know myslef and vice versa.

It is hard to accpet sometimes. There have been times my wife forwarned me like your H did and she was right. She knew me better then I knew myself.

It looks like your H knew you better in this case then you knew yourself.

Look on the bright side. HE KNEW YOU BETTER THEN YOU KNEW YOURSELF. That is the sign of love to me <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Aww FrogNM that is so sweet. Now do you mean the fact that he knows me better than I know myself means he loves me or that he knows me better than I know myself and he is still here spite of that fact means he love me? LOL.

I think I learned from mistake so I will be a better person. I know I need variety and that's what keeps me interested in anything. It is also the spice of life. Gotta love it!

Ok FrogNM where are you? You still haven't replied to my last post. I hope all is well.

I very rarely log in over the weekends.

But your answer is Yes.

You can figure that one out. LOL.

But the main thing is you admitted you were wrong that is a big thing.

Good for you.

Thank you Fog Prince and I say it is a bit of both.LOL. I know he would definitely say that.<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Thank you for repyling and yes now that I admitted it I feel lots better. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

That is one of the lessons I have learned.

Doing the right thing feels better. Not just short term but long term as well.

Makes life a lot easier too.