When my WW was with OM she couldn't wait until the year of seperation was up so she could divorce and be legal to see and date him or any one else.

Now, OM1 is out of the picture. Along with all of WW friends, my pastor said it best, "WW looses friends every 2 years, they usually get tired of the drama and just stop talking to her." The lastest group of her friends have become my support group and we hang out a lot, doing kid stuff.

I monitor her phone and text messages and for the most part she does talk to anyone or txt message anyone, for at least the past 5 months.

I know she is in a spiral but I just don't know if the narcissist and passive aggressive person in her will let go and allow her to see our M as an option.

Our youngest graduated today from K and we spent the day at school and the graduation party. WW is horrible with directions and got lost... after all the other kids and parents had gotten to the party I called WW knowing she was probably lost, she was like 60 miles in the wrong direction. I talked her back in to the party, only time she is nice to me is when she is in a pinch. I was very nice and calmed her and told her not to stress.... and I think she appreciated it. She never did thank me for helping with directions.

I think my question is.... can I simply ask her if she is going to file or not?

I feel that I am in such limbo. Financial's and custody are stable right now, the only court left is the final divorce decree and a final custody hearing.

viking,

So what I'm hearing you saying is that you and WW have had a legal separation for 14 months, finances and custody are stable right now. OM1 and friends who aided the A are out of the picture, yet WW has not pursued finalizing D. You think that because WW is narcissistic and P/A, even though A is over and she's lost all her "supportive" friends, that she's not likely to consider returning to the M. Is that about it??

If so, I would suggest that you prayerfully consider a time limit...and if you're not a person who prays, that you do so thoughtfully. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" /> I don't usually advise someone to initiate D proceedings, but it seems to me that WW could return to the M and that in order to do so, she'd have to initiate some IC for her narcissism and P/A tendencies. Right?? And I would say that if she has not initiated some sort of IC by XX timeframe that you thoughtfully determine, that then it is reasonable to say that the M is in fact dead and the covenant has been broken by her decision to do nothing. IMHO, that would not be YOU initiating D...that would be D being initiated by refusing to do the work to return to it.

Your faithful friend,



CJ

Thanks for the thoughts....

The thing that amazes me about the PA/N personality is the ability to divorce (no pun intended) from reality. Just today she has had a barage of txt messages over 60 I am not sure from who, could be a new man, could be a new co-worker.

If its a new man its amazing that she could do this while knowing full well that she is still married, she doesn't have to wait for anything she can file tomorrow and be D.

I think it part of the PA mentality that prevents her right now from doing it, because she would be the one leaving and she couldn't claim victim status.

So part of our next custody hearing, we are going to request the judge order both of us into IC.... I am already there but she only went 3 times and quite.

I read the other thread on PA and I wonder if I should call her on her choice, is she filing.

Just a very quick reminder...part of the N personality is a requirement for what I call the Narcissistic Supply (NS for short). In order to continue being completely centered upon themselves, the N needs others to give them NS in order to re-affirm that they really ARE the center of the universe!! It is entirely possible that your N WW might be keeping you "on the hook" because she knows that on the occasion she can get some NS from you!

Now, viking, I know of what I speak because my DH's exW is NPD. She has gone through OM like water because she keeps going to other men, then another, then another to get her NS. Every time she calls DH, even though they are D, she will go on and on about HERSELF--completely out of touch with reality--and she is hoping/expecting him to tell her how great she is, how great her life is, etc. His first reaction is, "Is this giving her NS?" If so, he stops it!! Ends the call...hangs up...etc.!! (BTW...in reality she can't get a job, she has nowhere to live, has no money of her own, lives off what she can trick out of men, etc. Her life is HORRIBLE!!!)

NS is much different than meeting EN's. It's more like they have projected this image in their minds of being "AMAZING! WONDERFUL! PERFECT!" and expect admiration and praise because if it...and if they do not get it how they want, when they want...then they will extort it! NS is usually admiration, praise, respect, attention, fear, affirmation, money, compliments, or sex. Here's a link on it: Narcissistic Supply

The reason I bring this up is to remind you to not be one of her suppliers!!!



--CJ

I asked my WW to file today. In the past two days she started txt and calling a new guy, someone that she met in the past couple of days.

This concerns me because if having NPD, she becomes very addictive with her needs for NS.

In the past, she would start down this path of doing whatever she can to get the NS and start abandoning her responsibilities at work and with the kids and even the marriage.

Viking,

You are asking her to file?

Sorry I am not totally familiar with your sitch, but why couldn't you file?

If you think there is some chance she may drift back to the M, and if you WANT this, by you filing, wouldn't it force her to act...one way or another?

Then you would have a better understanding of her intentions.

Just cause you file does not mean anyone has to sign them.

IMHO

kirk

Thanks for your opinion, I am dealing with a bit of a PA NPD personality and I personnally feel that if I file it will give her even more validation and justification to continue her ways.

Right now my plan is to continue to monitor the situation, I also am going to start being very direct with her and not sugar coat things anymore.

viking,

FWIW, divorcing a S with NPD is a whole different ballgame from your "typical" D, in that they can become fixated on you and become EXTREMELY vindictive. If they don't have NS from someone/somewhere else, they would fight TOOTH AND NAIL to keep what little bit they have coming from you and it can get VERY vicious.

It sounds like this may be an opportune moment to ask her to file. A) She has plenty of NS from new OM, B) She is fixated on him right now and not you, C) She will perceive it as "her idea" and might just get it over with and let you go. Since financials and custody are fairly stable right now, if she just finalizes what is currently in place, it may not be bad timing.

I feel SICK talking about a D this way (usually it's my position to fight to save a M you know!) but in this instance I understand the different dynamic you've had to face.



--CJ

This sounds like her to a tee, she has been very nasty creating an atmosphere of entitlement and vindicitveness.

She is also starting to have the kids rebell against her use of them in her NPD.

What i wonder is if she has always been like this or is this something new.

4 years ago I had a ONS with a prostitute, but she has had several EA's during the marriage, I now can see what has happened more clearly with insight from people her and what growth I have done on my own.

I have let go today, sending about 15 txt messages outlining things that I have built up in me, while I was holding in all this time because I wanted her to see a nice sensitive guy, when now I realize that probably worked against me with a NPD

I confirmed tonight that my WW met another man this week, wednesday and is spending the night/wknd with him.

I drove down to his town about an hour away and at 3am found her car parked in front of his apartment.

Divorce Decree will be filed monday

Im very sorry you are dealing with this situation.
Congratulations on making a firm decision. Will be thinking of you on Monday.

Thanks, I still love WW and care for her but things just are right in her head. Here is what I sent to my lawyer this morning

More information:

DD(12) called her mom this morning and WW lied to her and DD12 pressed her on it and WW hung up on here.

DD12 is upset at her mom not for the guy thing but the continually bring her into WW's grown up world. WW treats her like a girlfriend not a daughter..... DD12 told me that last week that WW sent OM3 a text message saying that WW thinks he has a girlfriend and not to call her anymore, I asked DD12 how she knew this she said her mom showed her the message before she sent it.


my girls have and continue to suffer under her guidance, I need to get this fixed before more damage is done. I have tried to reason with WW and she always take it as an attack on her. She needs structured long term mental counseling, something that is ordered as she wont go if she doesn't have too.

Please help me get custody immediately, I am not backing down this time, I need to insure they are protected.


Here is a lot of information but let me try and get it all in one message.

I had my suspcisions this week that WW had met another man, not that is my concern. The girls expressed concern to me about their mother starting to text excessively again and becoming more secretive and seclude when the kids were with her. This triggered some negative feels in my children, which they expressed to me on Friday when I picked them up.

I have somewhat confirmed that she's spending Friday night with this new man in Fayetteville.

The girls have a 4H family picnic on Saturday and she has excused herself from that, frankly the girls didn't want her there anyways.

I sent a few, okay maybe a lot, of messages to her about the impact to the kids and how their relationship is worsening with her. All of them surrounding the impact of the kids, but she will take it personally as me attacking or stocking her.

I talked to my oldest DD12, the one that WW mentioned in the email earlier this week about me and her having a argument. It was me setting a boundary for my daughter to treat me with respect... This was something my counselor at Clayton Counseling had suggested to me as he thought I was letting the girls walk over me, because of the situation with their mom. DD12 did tell me that she feels that her mom is trying to turn her against me, making comments about me being selfish and only looking out after myself, this is a Narssistic trait that Jennifer exhibits. My daughter doesn't feel that I am selfish and feels that her mother is trying to ruin my father daughter relationship with her.

WW is also trying to sabotage DD12's relationship with her friends at the farm, DD12 has a Horse show on Jun 8 9 10 and WW knows this, but tonight she tried to insist DD12 had to go to a BBQ on the 9 and DD12 got into it with her mother on the phone because she needs to do things and get a good night sleep for her show on the 10th. DD12 insist that she wants to stay with me that weekend, even though its WW's.

I want to file the divorce decree as soon as possible, if I need to sign something this weekend I will. So it can be filed Monday.

I feel that we need to be preemptive in letting WW lawyer know that I confronted WW about her new relationship based on how its impacting the children. WW has a personality disorder that needs to be diagnoised that prevents her from having normal, sound and safe relationships. Once she gets infatuated with a new man, she ignores other responsibilities and really neglects the children.

Soooo...just to be clear, YOU will be filing the divorce decree on Monday? Is that right??

BTW..two things. One--you might want to edit your WW's name out of the post above to say "...this is a Narsisstic trait that WW exhibits." Two--so you're near Fayetteville huh? My grandfolks are from Mountainburg! Geez, I think that may make us cousins!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/tongue.gif" alt="" />

So sunday night she got off work and tried calling OM4 or OM5 I forget now which one he is, he really isn't an OM as we have been separated for 15 months...

Well I guess she couldn't get ahold of him because about 1 AM she called and talked to OM3 for about 15 minutes.... is she wacked?

So we are both calling our lawyer's today. Mine wants me to focus on the child custody and not worry about the D. Let her worry about the D.

YES Vike!!

Good luck--keep the faith!

I just realized that my WW too has issues with NS....

Something that faith said I realize it all to clear now is that I can't win, NS is positive and negative energy, the more I plan A'd it feed her NS and made me appear weak and made her NPD grow, the more I was dark or cold and PLAN D or F, the more I feed her NS adn the stronger she felt in her NPD self image.

You do feel like your going crazy when dealing with these people and people don't believe you when you try and explain the situation.

I just received two emails from two of my WW former friends, both congradulating me on filing, as they have seen the NPD monster come after them.

Need input on what this exchange says to people.....


ME,
You cannot dictate what will go on during my custodial week with the girls. This has been an issue and it needs to be resolved. I DO NOT tell you what you need to do with the girls and where they need to be during your weeks. I would like to know why you feel as though you can continue to tell me how my week with the girls is going to be. I am capable of making sure that DD12 is working with Casey. And that she is ready for the show.
WW



WW,

I would like to propose a schedule for DD12's horse show training and
event.

DD12 needs to practive as mush as possible between now and June 9 and
10.

I will have her at the farm as much as possible while she is with me, I
would like to come and get her, or you can come and help out on the
following dates

May 29 31 and June 1 and 2, she needs to practive 2 hours each day at a
minimum and on June 1 we would like to trailer Casey up to the
fairgrounds to go into the schooling arena's. I can pick her up in the
late afternoon or early evening on these days.

On June 8 DD12 and Kimberly wants to go to the Hunt Complex early and
practice before the evening events.

DD12 and Kimberly have responsibilities all weekend for maintaing and
taking care of their horses in the stalls. So DD12 would like to stay
with me and be able to do the work she is responsible for.

Please let us know your thoughts.

bump

DARN!!!

I had a nice, long reply all typed out and the computer ate it!!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" />I HATE when that happens!!!! GRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!

Okay...meditating...chilling out...counting to ten...

There. I'll do it again.

What you wrote is a little confusing. Could you please answer a few ?????'s

When is DD12 supposed to be with you (dates)?
When is she supposed to be with WW (dates)?
When is her show (June 9th...right?)??
And when does she have commitments with the horse??

It sounds to me like WW may have a teeny bit of a point, that you should not be telling her what to do when on "her weeks." However, when I read what you wrote, I took it as a suggestion and I was free to disagree...like, "Thanks for the suggestion but that doesn't work for me. I'd rather do all the dropping off and picking up myself. But thanks for the offer!"

Anyway, my thoughts on this whole scenario are:
1) WW is supposedly a parent and adult. If she does NOT get DD12 to practice, etc. during her time, then she will look bad to DD12, not you.

2) If this show is something DD12 really wants to do, she will "remind" her mom over and over and over, "I need to be at practice mom!" Either mom will do the right thing, or DD12 will get gigantically pissed at her and WW's true nature will come to light.

3) If you are trying to control things, may I just politely remind you, it is OUT OF YOUR HANDS and out of your control. You can not make either one of them do it your way or do it right...they have to do it. So the more ya push, the more they will probably resist.

4) If you are just making suggestions and trying to minimize driving, etc. I suggest you respond with an email that says something like, "I realize you are entirely capable of making sure that DD12 works with Casey and gets to the show. I was trying to ease the burden of pick up/drop offs and be helpful. If you have made your own arrangements already, cool. If not, and you'd like to take me up on the driving assistance, I'm still willing." The point being that if you intention was control--give it up--but if your intention was making life easier for DD and WW then try let her know.

Finally, may I help you put something in perspective here? When you write to your WW about schedules and things, do so in approximately the same tone you'd write a memo to your boss about a co-worker's schedule. Be VERY factual only...and ASK, don't tell. Just be business-like and speak to her like you would speak to some other guy at work--an equal but just another person. I doubt if you'd tell your boss when s/he had to have her co-workers where...

BTW...it would appear you stepped on her N grandiosity. OUCH--that left a mark!!

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />



--CJ