ok...individual counselors are NOT marriage counselors. They focus on the individual...they don't give a darn about the marriage, nor will they truly tell the individual to fix the marriage. They're all about what makes the individual happy...and often, they work CONTRARY to marriage counseling.

You don't "propose" plan B to your husband. Plan B is all about YOU taking control BACK...you don't negotiate it with him. You DO it. His only choice is whether or not he'll meet your requirements to END plan B.

And of course he wants to hear from you...its to get his "fix" of you. He's trying to set terms.

What you need to do is to make it CRYSTAL CLEAR to him that you're NOT going to be part of his life if he continues on with OW. PERIOD. NO NEGOTIATIONS. You're his WIFE...not his friend. You don't want to be his friend...you want to be his wife, and you'll accept nothing less than that from him.

You need to write your plan B letter, get it posted here for review, and get into plan B NOW. RIGHT NOW. It sounds to me like you've done an effective plan A up to this point...so now, when you go to plan B, he's REALLY going to feel that loss of you in his life. It will be a huge hole for him to fill.

Make darn sure that your plan B letter is loving, and clearly spells out that he CAN come back...IF he meets all of your requirements FIRST. Not words...ACTIONS.

It's time...you need to do this now.

Well of course he wants to stay friends. That helps him feel better about destroying the marriage, because you're ok with it too!


1. His feelings aren't changing because they don't have to. There are no consequences for him. He has exactly what he wants, BOTH OF YOU.

2. Right. How do you feel about the dogs? Are you willing to give them up?

3. There are a lot of bad councelors out there. I wouldn't want one that was coaching on the "personal happiness above all else" doctrine. But. There is nothing you can do about who he sees, so let it go.

4. I wouldn't try to analyze it.

5. I would put a time limit on Plan A. Thats what you're in right? Are you talking about filing for divorce after a certain time-frame? I wouldn't file for divorce unless you want one, and I don't think you can predict "when" you might want one.

6. What do you mean you "proposed" Plan B to WH? Do you mean you told him your plan? Or just that you gave him some idea of what might come? Warning him takes away the power, IMO. He doesn't get to pick and choose how he wants to be involved in YOUR life. You get to.

Hey gang,

So I think I may have made some progress!!! I wrote my H a plan B letter and he immediatley flipped. Called me and said that he didn't think it would be a good idea because he felt the need to know that I was ok and not the no contact made him unhappy.

He actually finally apologized about his friendship with his ski buddy. He says now he knows that he was wrong and he knows that it needs to stop.

In any case, we talked for a few more days and talked about a controlled separation contract. Right now our separation has no guidelines so everything is kinda a wishy washy. We thought that this might be a better way to lay down the law, so to speak, and work on the relationship.

I agreed that we could not live together the way things were. So the separation was needed for us, but now we need some more structure in it. Right now there is still alot of hurt coming from both of us.

So anyway, does anyone have a sample of a controlled separation control. I've seen articles on it, but has anyone ever seen or written up and actual contract?

Yes, basically what you do is send him a Plan B letter and then go completely DARK. You don't forewarn him or ever mention the term seperation to him, you just GO DARK. Plan B should come as a complete SURPRISE.

You do this with a letter outlining how much his affair has hurt you, how sorry you are for your contributions to the poor state of the marriage, and most importantly, you give him your conditions for resumption of contact with you, ie: an end to all contact with OW and a committment to recovering your marriage.

Be sure and find and name an intermediary who can screen and pass on any PERTINENT messages, [not emotional pleas, etc] such as financial or legal issues.

It is real important that once you send the letter, you DO NOT relent and take his calls, lest you lose all credibility. You have to stick to your word and stay DARK.

Most waywards will fight this and will do their level best to get you to break your work about nc, because they don't like losing control, so it is real important to resist any attempts at contact.

Here is a good Plan B letter: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...rue#Post1143897

Why did you take his call if you are in Plan B? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" /> This is not "progress;" this is a WS who flipped out because he didn't have you under control any more. They ALL do this when they get the Plan letter! It doesn't mean you take his call. You just gave him back control and enabled him to STAY SEPERATED longer.

Do you want to save your marriage, z? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Hey gang,

So I think I was temporarily insane when I delivered the first plan B letter, just cause I was so afraid to do it. And as you all know from above I talked to him after I gave him the first one. So I edited it and gave a 2nd letter to my H.

This time I'm holding true to plan B and won't answer anything except through our mutual friend who has agreed to be the intermediary. Basically only communications about the dogs and bills are aloud and they have to go through our intermediary.

The other main provisions I put in the letter are:

- the only way I will communicate with him again is if he wants to come back and work on the marriage

- marriage counseling

- no more ski buddy and associated friends

- if the dogs are need to spend the night at his place, they are not to meet with ski buddy and associated friends (after all they are like my children)

Now the problem is, my H won't leave me alone. I can't be on IM anymore, cause he tries to chat with me. I have blocked his e-mail address to all of my e-mail accounts. The thing left are the text messages I get on my phone and cell phone calls.

How do people cope with this when the WH won't accept plan B for what it is in the first few days? I'm not sure I can stand the texting much longer. I delete the entire inbox when I turn on the phone. I may have to change my cell phone number. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Z:

Good Job!

Stay UNAVAILABLE.

Change your IM address and Cell phone if you need to.

HE WANTS you to be the FALL BACK position. If "ski buddy" doesn't work out, than maybe Z will.

So, please be available.

So, DON'T BE!

Let him read the letter! You can post it here so that we at least KNOW what you told him in it...

Let him Re-Read the letter. If he starts using your intermediary, and then you respond in kind, he MIGHT realize that your serious.

And that might scare him into realizing what a clod he has been.

LG

Hey gang!

Just a small update since I haven't been around for a while. My parents keep getting involved and making things worse. They have sabotaged any progress that was made, and it WAS made after plan B. My H confronted me that he wanted to work on the M.

My H refuses to accept my parents actions now and I tend to agree with him. I think they want us to divorce and are pushing us into that. And so we are going to see a lawyer together in the next several weeks. And we are filing for an amicable divorce.

It's not really what I want, but I feel like I'm stuck. I'm sick of my parents being in the middle and it seems like the only way at this point.

We are going to see a marriage counselor in the time we file for the D. I'm not really sure what it will accomplish, but I guess it will make me feel better.

Anyone know how long an uncontesed divorce takes in Massachsuetts?

Hey gang,

Hope everyone had a good Thanksgiving.

Despite all the advice I have never went into plan B.

Just a little update over the last week. On the Wednesday before Thanksgiving my WH came over with his brother to get one of our dogs to take to his parents house for the holiday.

While his brother was outside, my WH sat next to me and asked for a back rub. After I was finished and was about to get up, he pulled me back down and gave me a very affectionate hug. Then his actually kissed me on the lips. It's been 4 months since any of that happened mind you.

We sat there for a while because we were both sad about the holiday, it's the first time we were not going to spend it together in years.

The same thing happened when he left that day to drive home, again he gave me a kiss on the lips. When I asked him why he said it just felt right. Knowing the mentaility of a WH I just took all of this affection with a grain of salt.

Anyway, on Friday I asked him to go to a movie that we both wanted to see, he said he didn't feel like it but did want to do something with me. So after about 20 text messages back and forth I drove to his apartment. We sat and chatted for a while and had a few drinks. Played with the dogs a little.

Then after a while he layed down on the couch and pulled me down next to him just wrapping his arms around me. Then one thing led to another and yadda yadda yadda.

We spent most of the next day, saturday just bumming around and watching star trek and drinking coffee until i left to go home. On the way out he said to me I hope this wasn't a mistake. I didn't say anything and just hugged him and left.

In addition to all of this, before it happened, he had been talking about moving back home for financial reasons. I told him i was either going to get a roomate or a second job and firmly said NO.

I have not made mention of working on the marriage and the like, neither has he.

What should I take from all of this?

Is he still seeing someone else?

How could I forget! Rumor has it that his 'ski friend' is not seeing someone.

There are clear indications that something strange is going on with him. He used to go to the gym with her everyday. Now he doesn't go at all. In the last two months, he has put on about 20 lbs and shaved his head.

My spies tell me and to my knowledge he doesn't hang out with his 'friend' anymore. Do I know for sure? No. But that is something he never promised me he would stop doing.

I'm keeping my eyes open. Just wondering what is going on in the now BALD head of his.

So, my take is that if you had instituted a plan B you would have conditions for ending it (i.e., NC for life with OW, extraordinary precautions to prevent contact, and a plan for rebuilding your marriage), and until he commits to those you're letting him cake-eat.

I'm not sure what plan you're working or what to tell you. What are your boundaries? Are you still trying to plan A him?

Hopefully someone with more experience or more familiar with your situation will have better advice.