For the first time since D-day my F?WW mentioned reconciliation & we talked about what boundaries there might be.

#1 for me was, of course, transparency - absolute 100% transparency; which included her giving me her email account passwords. She was not happy at this, stating that I should respect her privacy & also that of her friends who email her: this was a bottom line for her.

Although it's much too early for both of us to consider R it got me thinking. My thoughts are that I will not consider R without transparency & if she cannot (or will not) do this then I'll walk away. This I am prepared to do.

Recently though, I've been thinking whether we could start R without it & negotiate later. I know it sounds daft to try & introduce boundaries midway through R so I was wondering if anybody had tried this & what success (or failure) they had. I'm pretty certain (i.e. 100%) that this cannot be done but I'm prepared to be proved wrong.

Cheers.

bm

Hi bulletproof.

You are right to say: I need transparency from you, WS, in order to reconcile.

She can say: I require privacy.

You and I both know, that she requires privacy to continue her affair. That's the bottom line.

You can choose to drop that transparency boundary for now, but that would be profoundly dishonest on your part. Because the truth is, you NEED that transparency, just like you NEED oxygen to breath. So to pretend otherwise is a lie that disvalues you, and is dishonest to her.

So how successful do you think a recovery based on privacy and lies will be?

Is she having no contact with her affair partner? How long has she had no contact?

Did you expose the affair?

Did she write a no contact letter?

It is as I thought - I just didn't want to take my marriage for a walk in the woods, put three bullets in the back of it's head & leave it there (figuratively speaking) if there was a viable alternative.

BrambleRose: you are right. I need transparency, I cannot exist in a marriage without it & I'm not suggesting that I should; just pondering if it could be introduced retrospectively. Attempted recovery without transparency will be a car crash, without a doubt.

believer: I believe that NC is holding, there is no evidence of contact (but I know that absence of evidence is NOT evidence of absence). I didn't expose the affair - I had all my ducks in a row & was ready but she stopped the A the day after I asked her to; making it somewhat superfluous (& it could easily be interpreted as vindictive). There was no letter.

Thanks for your answers.

bm

PS. My ducks are at DEFCON2 & will remain so for the foreseeable future.

If she isn't showing you by works and actions along with the words, then there is no real reconciliation.

Most WS' want recon for their benefit. Ask her what's in it for you. Yea....straight up, just like that. Her reaction will tell you a lot.

L.

Folks who have nothing to hide, don't hide. Demanding secrecy is a surefire ticket to failure even in a marriage that has not suffered adultery. This set up would be doomed to failure from the start. The only way it could work is if she were committed to tactics that served to make you safe by affair proofing your marriage. She won't even take minimal steps to achieve that. I would take a pass and hold out for better.

Melody - You disappointed me. I was waiting for you to say "If she wants privacy, she can go into the bathroom and lock the door".

HERE [color:"red"]<~~~ link to excellent explaination ~secrecy vs privacy~ [/color]

Your FWW might have ended the A, but it sounds like she's still stuck in WS-Mode. How long ago did her A end?

In my case, it took about 6 months for my FWW to come out of WS-Mode (helped no doubt by her continuing to work with the OM for most of those six months). I knew what my boundaries were, but I also knew that I was prepared to wait for a few months for the fog to clear from her mind.

The A ended 5 Feb, she called him. I wasn't around but I believe this to be the case; the fallout was real enough & continues to this day. She's very flat emotionally (the opposite of what she was like during the A) & is struggling with some personal issues; until these are resolved she says she cannot commit to the M. She consistent is saying that she's not sure she want to be with me (or anyone else). ManInMotion: is this what it was like for you??

Meanwhile I'm doing my best plan A. We've been to MC (for a post-mortem on the M) & both in IC. My goals for this phase (post A - pre R or D) is to maintain a safe & secure environment where we can heal the wounds we brought with us into the M, after which we'll turn our attention to the M.

Pep: thanks for the link.
Melody: when you say I should take a pass & hold out for better what do you mean??

On another note: I suspect that OM may be trying to get in touch with F?WW (or possibly may have already done so).

Any ideas on how I should play this??

I'll give F?WW a while to tell me - she has concerns that I'll blow up & make her life ****** (which is what I would have done before - I was very much into anger & blame) - before I push for info. I was thinking about paying OM a visit but always shied away from this as it's sure to restart contact (F?WW will get in touch just to check that I didn't rip his arms off & beat him to death with the soggy ends - as I said I was very much into anger).

Thanks to you all.

bm

must I call you "bm" ??????? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

have you ever watched the Travolta movie
Phenomenon?

Travolta's character, George, is trying to woo a woman who is not interested ... George pays attention, and realizes that the lady pours her heart and soul into some stick chairs she makes by hand .... so he buys them, one-by-one ....

he is filling her love bank

later in the movie, George's friend, Doc, explains to one of the town men who is making fun of George's buying all these useless chairs .... that what George was doing was finding out what his lady-love cared about ~~~> and showing her he cared about her by caring about the chairs

May I suggest you rent this movie, and watch it .... when your wife is around .... she will come watch with you (it is pretty much a romance movie and hard for women to resist)

at the end of the movie ... ask your wife about the chairs-buying ...

ask her "What are your chairs?"

The Eric Clapton song in the movie is just one of my favorites >>sigh<< <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

Pep,

From now on I shall be known as 'b'.

I've not seen it but I shall, & I'll watch it with mrs b. Is it a weepy one ?? I can be somewhat emotional every now & then (a recent development in my life).

Interesting motto by the way.

b

B or bpm as I like to say.

That is a good movie to watch with her, if she is into those movies.

It was quite similar. I asked my FWW on DDay if she wanted to separate or stay M'd. She said she wanted to stay, but she did very little to help improve our relationship for the first few months. She did welcome the personal changes that I made though. She kept saying that she was staying because "it was the right thing to do", "for the children", etc. She never mentioned she was staying because she actually wanted to continue a relationship with ME.

It's two years later now, and things are definitely much better between us. She's still a little unsure of her feelings for me though, but she's less unsure now than she was back then <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

If anything, it's me that's having the "crisis of confidence" wrt our M now. Even though things seem to be going quite well at the moment, I stil find myself wondering at times if I might the right decision back on D-Day to continue the M.

LOL



Yes .... it is at the end.


yes, I love my new motto <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

you can borrow it anytime you feel weepy <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> (since I stole it myself)

PS

that is an infidelity-free movie

I actually prefer bpm - thanks vikingruler.

Mrs bpm is due home in half an hour; I'll leave for a few days but if nothing is forthcoming about OM trying to get in touch then I'll start probing. I might even be wrong about it.

Pep: thanks for the film tip. I used to have a _big_ problem with infidelity in films & on TV; huge trigger - teleported me right back to d-day & the way that I felt. Then I watched "Keeping Mum", a funny film (with infidelity) which broke the spell.

ManInMotion: Thanks for your reply, sorry to hear that you're having doubts about about your decision; is this a transient thing or constant ?? I also have doubts about my decision to stay - on dday I was ready for divorce (I moved extremely quickly, driven by pain & an intense desire to close that chapter; had a lawyer, petition, custody proposal, childcare, etc. all arranged in the day after dday) & I sometimes wonder what my life would be like if I'd finished what I started that day. Then I come to my senses & tell myself to stop "what if"ing my life away. Have you got a thread so I can come up to speed on your sitch & maybe get some clues for what lies ahead. My sitch does appear to be very similar to what you're describing.


bpm

I'd say that it's transient. These days it usually happens when we're enjoying ourselves doing something, and it occurs to me that I felt the same level of enjoyment when we were doing the same thing during those A-years. I guess I'd prefer to be with someone who found happiness in our relationship, not someone who found happiness, but apparently not enough to keep them faithful. I guess that that I will always have this fear now that I'm "not enough" for my FWW. And she does little to minimize that fear.



No recent threads, sorry. I've been contemplating putting up a "brief history of MiM" to cover what I've been through over the last few years - maybe when I have the time <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />.

I know that feeling MiM, too well. It sometimes feels like F?WW is reveling in the torment she can put me through; she gets 'angry' when she thinks I'm displaying anxiety but does nothing to allay any fears that I may have. She simply states that "I can't make you feel anything" - true, but she sure can create the environment that allows any fears/doubts/anxieties to flourish.

Things are improving slightly - but are still a country mile away from where they need to be. As with all these things, time will tell.

b.p.m.