MEDC:

I wanted to respond to you about this..but not on Sis' thread...

I spent months and months and months asking Eav questions on other threads that she had that you may have not read...

You are incorrect.

She had plenty of chances to respond honestly to my questions...

Eav is not relevant to Sis' thread...

Eav BETRAYED me and LIED to me as far as I am concerned...

Remember how we had the previous discussion about MEANNESS...

I experience your continuing to throw that up to me as MEANNESS although that may not be your intention...

But thankfully I've learned not to overreact..

I am discussing this with you..not FIGHTING...

well, thank you for discussing. First off... no matter your discussions with Eav, you missed some obvious signs regarding that girls state of mind...my opinion.... I have pointed it out to you since I would have thought you would have learned after that to be more open to others points of view.

Next, your statement about me being mean right now is sort of "odd." YOU Mimi are the one that was being rude and "mean"... although I wouldn't usually use that word. Once again, views that do not agree with your or SdGuys in this case, should be censored.... that is ridiculous Mimi. There are times when I think YOU should be censored... but I wouldn't say so. As an example... anyone that does not come right out and suggest to a poster that they are putting their life at risk by engaging in sexual activity with a WS should be censored. To talk about how it worked for you is harmful in my opinion and does not display common sense. But is it my right to stop you from saying it... nope... nor would it be my place to suggest to another poster to not listen to you since your view would put them in danger. I say, let all the sides be out there and let the poster decide what is best for them.
I really don't give a hoot that you think this or that about another posters situation... that you believe it to be similar to yours and this or that... that's great... your input is valuable... but no more valuable than Lems. Not one bit. And guess what... there is a greater chance that he will be right than you....even though you had the experience. There is a much greater chance that this thing will go down in flames... sad to say... and that the poster could get hurt even deeper by not being prepared for what he sees is inevitable.
None of this is science... as much as some people would have you believe here.... it is not merely plugging in the Harley's formula and out pops a recovered marriage. My input and I suspect Lems is based on out view of what is happening. I have a ton of experience with human nature and also a fair share with infidelity. I have been right and I have been wrong on these boards. BUT I know I have been dead right when others were slamming me for my postition.... and when the [censored] hits the fan, they all disappear... I have seen it happen many times here.
I didn't like Eav's handling of things... I think she was ridiculous in some of the things she said. I also thought you were a little over the top in your reaction to things....a view shared by some, not all. But that was you... I am okay with that. Let's not get into a place where we stop allowing dissenting opinion to enter into a discussion... it is healthy... and anyone that fails to allow other points of view in, really is doing so from a position of weakness, not strength.

Sorry, I am rambling here Mimi. As I have said in the past....and will say again... your view is valuable and needed here... as is mine, Lem's and everyone elses (trolls excluded). Any time I read a post that says... ignore so and so... or don't listen to so and so.. it is a slap in the face to the people that take the time to post their thoughts for the good of others.

Sleep well Mimi.

MEDC.... now putting MY nipples to the wind!

Where did anyone call for you to be censored?

I don't mean to intrude here, but are you folks talking about SF during Plan A. I only ask because I think I am familiar with lem's opinion.

If this is something else feel free to tell me to f off. Otherwise, I am actually Lem's poster boy about STD's and HIV before being tested.

Sorry to intrude if I am reading wrong.

All blessings,
Jerry

MEDC...for the record i think you are the $hit ( a term of endearment) and are doing a good job of provoding for some realismm and differeing views here. It has been very stepfordish again. I like you and your posts alot.

I think I am re-retiring to the cayman islands to chill for a bit.....please do not lose your "bone" to stand up for those who may get shunned by the stepford masses hoping to dissallow differeing opinions..

You da man....

sayanara people

Li'mon man

FWIW I agree with MEDC and Lem.

I also think that your heart is in the right place, Mimi, and I respect you and like you.

I also think that Eav has problems that are too big for us as laypeople. Mimi, I know you feel terribly betrayed but Eav was always looking for that one straw of hope and she knew you could give it her because of your "all marriages can eventually be recovered" mindset. Even Dr Harley says they can't.

{{{{{{{{{{{Mimi}}}}}}}}}}}}} you are such a sweetheart.

sdguy... did I say that anyone said this about me??? Nope... it was in reference to YOUR post... which Mimi so readily agreed with... that Lilsis should put some posters on ignore if she wants to save her M. Putting someone on "ignore" is the ultimate censorship.

I hope that cleared it up?

Lem, don't worry about MEDC's "bone." As long as those who may get shunned by the stepford masses agree with him, he will "bone up." But he WILL try to shut down discussion of anything that he disagrees with and will try to disallow differing opinions. But never fear, MEDC has plenty of "bone" and "brass."

Enjoy the sun, surf, and peace and quite. You picked a nice place to re-retire and chill out!

Ah... fishing these waters huh?
Not biting here either FH...

dope.

OK and SO WHAT? I've never deemed myself to be a professional on this board. I'm certainly not able, willing or want to try to diagnose mental illness. I certainly encouraged Eav many, many, times to see a psychologist and to go see her psychiatrist. You are misinformed about the nature of my posts to Eav. I'm sure that you have not read all of my many posts to Eav or fully understand the nature of my posting history to her. I told you yesterday what I choose to do on this forum.



I don't think you are saying that being open means that you have to agree with another's point of view. I certainly do not agree with encouraging someone in the early stages of PLAN B to get a divorce. That is UTTERLY opposed to the MBer's point of view and the purpose of this website, IMO...IMO with bold letters...That is the way the REAL WORLD counseled ME everyday and that was what was sooo appealing to me about MB..such a HAVEN against that popularized point of view these days..and for me, if I had gone along with that POINT OF VIEW that folks IRL told me during PLAN B, it would have been such a TRAGEDY for my life that it is NORMAL, IMO, for me to SHUDDER when I READ HERE that it is being said to someone..especially in a situation which TO ME seems VERY SIMILAR to mine...



"ODD"...in your opinion...but that's how I see it. Sis has said that she loves her H and that she wants to try PLAN B. TO ME, it's "mean" to encourage her to get a divorce. That's my opinion, my feeling, my viewpoint...I am a person that ABHORS DIVORCE and am utterly saddened when folks have to do that. To me, it's like a DEATH. That's how I feel. That's who I am. I can only be myself. If you will notice, when someone makes that decision or their spouse divorces them, I MAY stop posting to them...DEPENDS....



I never used the word CENSORED...but you are correct, I should have explained myself rather than dittoing, SD. I am/was concerned that your posts would get Sis off track from her PLAN B..at which she is doing WONDERFULLY...but that is Sis' choice and she clearly can take care of herself. I was WRONG in not being CLEAR with you. I was so frustrated yesterday about what was being said on that thread and did not have much time to post over there.



Feel free to say what you want to say to me.



AGREED...



You speak of COMMON SENSE...then, why is this so..what are your grounds for this statement?



What are you basing this on? I've based my POV NOT ONLY ON MY EXPERIENCE but on the OUTCOMES of many others who have used the MBer's APPROACH? Tell me so that I can understand. What makes it so clear to you that this will GO UP IN FLAMES as you say..and it could. But, my thing is..WHY SHOULD SHE NOT TRY IF THERE'S EVEN A SLIM CHANCE OF RECOVERY???? TO ME, IT'S WORTH A TRY EVEN IF THE CHANCES ARE SLIM. That's how come some folks use experimental chemotherapies. Others choose not to. In this situation, I'm on the side of using the EXPERIMENTAL DRUG rather than GIVING UP HOPE.



Same here..in the nature of my work everyday for 25 years..my F was a serial cheater/philanderer...



Me, over the top... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />..Yep, I can be INTENSE...



AGREED!!



I can understand how this bothered you. Who wants to be IGNORED???? I would hate it. Sorry about that.

thanks for the reply Mimi... I only have a few minutes.... so I will answer one thing that I think will cover many questions here....

You asked what I was basing my thoughts that Lem had a better chance of being right.... and also, that there is a better chance (read chance) that it will go down in flames. I base that on my time here and witnessing first hand at the very least a slightly larger percentage of marriages that do NOT work out even when using the MB plan. Couple that with a LTA... divorce filed... etc, and I would venture to say that the chances of the working out in a saved marriage is very poor. Is there a chance... yep... would I place any bets on it, not in this lifetime.




So, I agree with the above statement... I just happen to see a lot more outcomes that are not desired.

I hope that clears up where I am coming from. I am very okay with you having your views.... that's what we are all here for.

Thanks for taking the time to talk to me one on one... or sort of one on one about this. Much appreciated.

MEDC

MEDC:

Recent successes that followed THE PROGRAM are: IN A DAZE, AMIOK and CHA-CHA and SILENT. They make me HOPEFUL for SIS and BUGS...I hope I'm not leaving anybody out that I know about..

I was going to list these but couldn't think of CHA-CHA'S NAME and here she posted TODAY. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

amiok found success in plan FU.
And I know there are success stories Mimi... lots of them... but for everyone there is also a dogfood, viking ruler, eav, inpain... and lots of others out there. So, its not just a matter of the Harley's have found the answer and if you do "abc" the outcome will always be a recovered marriage. I have said many times that even though the Harley's give the best shot out there, that this is still a crapshoot. The odds are not in favor of recovered marriages especially when a LTA and divorce proceedings are added to the mix.
Keep doing what you are doing Mimi...it is right for you and it offers hope to some people. I will do what I do as I too reach some people. I am optimistic when I see a reason for optimism.

I gotcha and hear you, MEDC...
<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

medc,

I agree with you that by the time folks show up on this forum....their marriage is already knee deep in kaka....and the reality, is that even these great strategies are no guarantee that a marriage will recover because let's face it....infidelity sucks and it's hard to trust again after that. In fact, chances are....most marriages won't recover...it IS a crap shoot.

However, without these strategies (I think you agree), the odds of recovery are even lower.

The message of hope we CAN give people is that recovery IS POSSIBLE (not probable, not guaranteed, not iron-clad...but POSSIBLE) Also, there are folks here who have recovered their marriages, as well as though who haven't, that are willing to help people suffering through their darkest days no matter what the outcome. It's important for people to know they aren't alone and that inspite of overwhelming odds....marriages can and do recover from infidelity.

Mine did. And I know plenty of others did too. Against all odds and against the predictions of doomsday it is a small speck of hope in an ocean of doubt.

Is there a danger of giving some folks "false" hope?....yes, I think there is. I think eav was a good example of that. She was long past the effectiveness of any MB plans and her situation may have been beyond the scope of this board.

The strength of MB is in it's diversity. We have the mimis who while remind folks not to give up hope (at least on themselves) and the "lemonmen" (and the medcs) who will let them know when they're just being doormats.

It's all good.

And don't forget folks, even if the marriage is not recovered, this site is still extremely helpful. Had I not found it, and worked the program, I would have chalked up the whole thing as my WH's fault, and continued merrily along.

As for getting INSTANT support and advice, you can't beat it. I laugh now, but it was very stressful when my WH called me at work to announce that he was in the process of moving back in. And he still had his mistress!!!!

I still remember Melody telling me NOOOOOO!!!!!!! If I hadn't had the support, I probably would have just let him move back, girlfriend in the wings. I would have just resigned myself to putting up with it. Instead, I did what it took to keep him out. And it all happened in less than 2 hours.