OK...saw this discussion on a totally unrelated forum...but thought it definitely could apply to here as well.

What is EVIL?

The best definition that I could agree with was that evil was a total, complete lack of empathy. That an evil person could not, would not see or feel what others around them feel. So their actions could be completley destroying those around them, and they wouldn't care at all...they couldn't empathize and feel that.

Sounds like a WS in the height of an affair to anyone? All they care about at that time is what feels good to them...typically NO care at all about the damage to others around them...they have no empathy for anyone outside of themselves and the OP.

Thoughts?

Evil is the absence of good. That definition is not as simplistic as it seems. It is actually scientific, parallel to the definitions of cold and dark, respectively:

Cold = The absence of heat.

Dark = The absence of light.

I would probably have to disagree. I can see were you're coming from. This is the way it would appear especially to the BS, but after spending time on this site and reading what I can about A. I have to believe that the WS, in most cases, does have empathy. This is why an A is so hard on them also. This is why A rarely works out. I think that to be EVIL there needs to be intent. I know that WS do not intend to cheat.

I completely disagree with you. Cheating is a CHOICE. Even in my wife's emotional affair, where she ORIGINALLY claimed that 'it just happened', she's come to realize that this is just a cop out. The truth is, there were a series of choices that she made...each clearly WRONG...that led to the affair. There are ALWAYS crossroad decisions made leading up to infidelity...ALWAYS. There are several points where the WS KNOWS that what they're doing/about to do is WRONG...but they chose to do so anyway.

Interestingly enough, the subject of these 'choices leading to infidelity' came up in a conversation my FWW and I had with our oldest son this weekend...and my wife completely agree with this assessment, looked my oldest dead in the eye and told him that she CHOSE to do what she did, knowing it was wrong...and now deeply regrets that she ever made so many stupid decisions.

During the affair...she CHOSE to do these things not even thinking about what the impacts would be...no empathy.

OK...going with your definition process...

Cold= the absence of heat
Heat is defined as the movement of molecules
So:
Cold=the absence of the movement of molecules


Dark= the absence of light
light is the presence of either photons or a wavelength in the electromagnetic spectrum

so:
dark= the absence of either photons or specific wavelengths in the spectrum


Evil=the absence of good

define good without using the word evil in your definition

"I know that WS do not intend to cheat."

True to a certain point. They do know when they have crossed a certain line and and where that road is going to take them, right there and then they have a choice in which way they will be steerling their family lives, off road or smooth pavement.

I know first hand what evil is.

when you are bleeding to death and your spouse asks why don't you just go ahead and die.

Owl,

I realize that WS make choices. In most cases, however, the intent is not to destroy their M or hurt the people they love. Also, Calling an A a choice is misleading. Look at it from the perspective of an alcoholic or an addict. Yes, they make a choice, but once they are swept up in the addiction, there ability to make a proper choice is almost nil.
I don't disagree that WS perform a heartless act. I just believe that it is due to a lack of will and impaired thinking, not a "complete lack of empathy."
Also, when I think of evil I think of Stalin and Hitler, not a WS.
Ps- I'm not trying to piss in your oatmeal, I'm just trying to join in the discussion you started.

HERE [color:"red"] <~~~ People Of The Lie .... link to previous book discussion [/color]

Evil can certainly manifest itself this way, imho. And that total lack of "good" is fairly easy to see, and to most people it would be seen as "evil."

I think that "evil" is much more basic than that though. I think it is the expression that flows from self-interest first, self-centeredness, a choice to accept the dangerous premise of "if it feels good to me, do it." Evil is "ego centric" and, in terms used on MB, the "Taker" in action when combined with someone "esteeming" themselves rather than God, as the highest authority in determining what is "right and wrong" for themselves, regardless of how anyone else may be impacted.

jmho.

God bless.

Read People of The Lie, as Pep recommends.

Peck tried to arrive at a psychology of evil. I think he made progress too, but there is still a lot more to learn.

Evil is by definition insidious. Peck even got sucked in eventually.

"I realize that WS make choices. In most cases, however, the intent is not to destroy their M or hurt the people they love. Also, Calling an A a choice is misleading. Look at it from the perspective of an alcoholic or an addict. Yes, they make a choice, but once they are swept up in the addiction, there ability to make a proper choice is almost nil.
I don't disagree that WS perform a heartless act. I just believe that it is due to a lack of will and impaired thinking, not a "complete lack of empathy."'

I think you need to read a lot more here. They do make choices. They are not insane. They simply don't care who they hurt. They simply do not care anymore. Not even for their own children. And they actively, constructively and ingeniously hide their actions because they know they are immoral, unethical and egregiously wrong. . One of Peck's markers, in fact.

The comparison of adultery to an addiction is useful. But it is only an analogy. It is not even 50% accurate. It is just a model for treatment of the symptoms.

with prayers,

BTW, I just read a new biography of Stalin. It concludes he was in fact rather technically insane. Goes all the way back to his childhood. Very persuasive. So maybe he was not evil at all. Just criminally insane.

Or is inanity an aspect of evil?

Evil is my WH. He let me and the children ride around in an unsafe vehicle all winter with no heat. Then he gets embarrassed cuz his buddies are asking why one of my windows has plastic taped up over it, and why it has a flat tire in the driveway and why it needs a jumpstart.. when he has 2 brand new vehicles! So he goes and gets me a little newer van that he is now yanking because I caught him on another dating sight. And why do me and the kids deserve this? Because I violated his privacy by looking at the history on his computer! At that was actually our daughter who did it, I think I was afraid what I'd find.

Owl --

In Catholicism, Satan is called The Father of Lies. A WS can have a lot of empathy -- for the OP. The whole relationship between the WS and the OP is built on deceit and disregard for the spouse.

A friend of mine once said that Satan presents himself as an angel of light. The relationship with the OP looks like it is good -- after all, there is the feeling of love, there is the feeling of care, there is the feeling of empathy, there is the feeling of passion -- all feelings which seem to be good. What is most evil can appear to be good.

I think Catholicsm correctly described evil as a lie.

Cherished

Do you want to know what it looks like? Well, evil on this side of the globe looks like an overprocessed blonde bimbo with stilts for legs who acts like a helpless twit needing to be saved from her own life.

Oh...well maybe you wanted to know the definition. I would bet if you looked it up in the dictionary you'd probably see the OW in our sitch's picture.

-pendragon

I think evil is it's own category.

It isn't comparable to anything except it's opposite.

Actions/thoughts/beliefs/feelings/motivations/entities/etc can all fall INTO the category of being described as "evil".

Insanity doesn't make evil less evil..only attempts to explain WHY a person would make an evil choice.

Personally I believe that evil is rebellion against God and everything that encompasses...the first definition of waywardness is it not?

Cherished,

I had to giggle about this one about WS having empathy for OP.

My H was very empathic towards OW whose H was a liar and a cheater and general dirtbag. I LB'd a couple of months ago and told my H that he'd become exactly like OW's WH (and OW helped create that)... I also asked if that's how she'd met her first two H's (through affairs) and if so, why she expected faithfulness out of liars and cheaters.

BringItOn --

It's no laughing matter to me. My husband has told me that he believes his greatest attribute is a sense of compassion for others. The OP brought out what he thought was his best attribute -- she encouraged him in being his very best in how he showed care and compassion for her.

As for me, I had childbirth related surgery during the affair. He didn't come to the hospital the day after the surgery. Instead, he spent lunch with her.

I needed him. He wasn't there for me. He was being the best he could be.

You seem to have a better perspective than me. I am still very bitter. The OP roped in my husband about talk about how arrogant and uncaring her husband was, too. And my husband could tell a few stories about his wife who was so upset about his lunches with her.

In the end, my husband made the choice that made him feel good.

Cherished