I posted this in the emotional needs forum and was told to post it here also: TIA for any help.

On April 30th my wife's recent affair finally came out in the open. For about a month she had been involved with another man. The signs were there, at one point I actually thought it would be an easy way to get rid of her. I had always felt that if she wasn't happy with everything I gave her and did for her that she was ungrateful. After everything came out in the open I packed my bags and went to a friends. I have been there since 5/1 now.

At first she was apologetic, said she would do anything to stay together. I stumbled across this site on 5/3 trying to find answers to cope with the devastation and pain I was experiencing. That is when I realized how my actions had help lead to the affair. The more I read the more I realized that I had become a cold, withdrawn person that had let the stress & hours (60-70hrs a week) of my job rob my wife of every basic emotional need except financial security. Most of all I realized I really love my wife, that I really need my wife. I had always treated her like a queen as far as material issues were concerned. I thought that was enough. When I did not get the response I was looking for I shut down emotionally. After that she followed so there after. And now we are here. I am begging to try and repair the damage but she will not committ. She tells me that she will always love me but she is not in love with me. She supposedly ended the affair immediately after it was discovered but her reluctance with me leaves me questioning this.

I have read every page on this site and I am still left with the question "How do I convince her that I can meet her emotional needs?"
I have tried to get her to read the site. I even printed all the material off and made a book to make it easier. I did manage to get her to read "Why Women Leave Men" and the summary of the basic steps, both of which she agreed with, but she has shown little interest in reading further.
I really feel like I can meet her needs now that I understand what they are but I am not sure how to convince her that my intentions are real and to take that chance.

Any Ideas?

DR:

Buy His Needs, Her Needs (HNHN) for a start.

Give us a little more information about your sitch. Ages, how long married, courtship, kids, etc.

Move back home.

Easier to work on a M when the spouse is across the room and not across the town.

You may have a real good handle on your EN.

What do you think her's are?

70/80 Hours at work? Been there, Done that.

Doesn't mean that you can't have a fabulous marriage.

Stopping by here was the first step.

If you have the financial means, then you might want to attend a Marriage Builders weekend. Made a huge difference in the recovery of my M.

And I was the one trying to blow it up.

Do you understand what plan A is?

Look for Pepperband's "the carrot and stick of Plan A."

It will help you to start changing your behaviors to start meeting her EN's.

LG

YOu don't. That's controlling behavior. You just meet them. You have to take the EN's questionnaire, and if your WW will not fill it out, look into your R in the past and try to discover what her EN's are, then do your best to fill what she will allow you to fill.

You cannot convince her of anything. All people need to see actions to really feel 'convinced'. I don't listen so much these days as 'look'.

Meeting her needs is not about YOU. It's about her. Don't expect that she will meet yours, either. She's wayward, and may not be interested in doing anything for you. She is probably in a very selfish place, so EXPECT nothing from her. Plan A is about you giving to her, EN's wise. DO NOT be a doormat, but give without expectation of bells and whistles, or outward shows of affection and appreciation from her. As a matter of fact, she may even be bothered by your trying to fill her EN's and giving.

I hope this made some sense.

"How do I convince her I can meet her emotional needs?"

By meeting them, consistently over time. Action, not talk. Move home so you can meet them.

HNHN, the ENQ and so on are tools. But, you have to actually work the problem. You have to produce.

Also, she needs to eventually start meeting your ENs too.

Don't forget Love Busters (LBs) are just as important to eliminate as is meeting ENs. Disrespectful Judgements (DJ), Angry Outbursts (AO), controlling behaviours are in most respects more damaging than unmet ENs.

I recommend you call the MB counseling center (there is a link in the banner at the top of every page).

with prayers

PS: Chances are the affair is still active (especially since you moved out). You need to expose as well as begin your Plan A.

We married 16 years ago. We dated for a year. We married very young, 19M & 18W. We were married for 4 years and got divorced. We reconciled 18 months later but wound up in this situation (minus the affair) a few years later, we again seperated and later reconciled again. August it will be 5 years since we reconciled. I know this is a destructive pattern but for the first time I have looked inside myself for faults instead of assuming it was hers. The lack of emotion in my upbringing and the examples that were set for me left me with a horrible impression of how to care for someone emotionaly. Part of my overwhelming desire to fix this is knowing how destructive my actions were and how much responsibility I share in this.

One thing I have to mention is the fact that I have in the past always avoided getting re-married even she repeatedly asked for it. I was always affraid it would cause problems.

How do I do that with out being demanding or destructive? I need to do it for financial reasons if nothing else. Living in two seperate households is draining. I want very much to come home but I do not want to push her further away or even worse have her leave. I asked her today if it would be ok if I came home, I promised no pressure, sexual advances or demands. I even offered to sleep in a seperate room. She very reluctantly said it would be ok. Do I come back or am I risking further damage?

You just go home. Today.

And tonight you ask her to read HNHN and take the ENQ with you. You tell her you want to change and you ask for her help.

with prayers,

DR:

So you are NOT married now, but you WERE once?

Cool.

Lots of storms tossing this boat around....

But, HNHN will still work.

Are you paying for the house?

She had the Affair?

Then you go home.

If it makes her uncomfortable, SHE can leave.

She choose to walk, she can continue that walk, or work on the M with you.

And read up on Lovebusters. Sounds like you were doing a whole bunch of them.

and DR:

This place is about the changes that YOU will make. Not your WW. She might, but if you change, she may come.

And then we are working with something...

LG

I dont know if I can do it today. She is going out with some of her friends after work and I have very mixed emotions about that. I think I need to have a clear head when I do go back. But I am going to set a return date.

I gave her the ENQ & the LBQ but she has not filled them out. I dont think she has read far enough to understand the thought and principal behind either of them yet.

That is correct.

LG [/quote]
Are you paying for the house?

She had the Affair?

Then you go home.

If it makes her uncomfortable, SHE can leave.

She choose to walk, she can continue that walk, or work on the M with you.
LG [/quote]
Yes to all of these except the last thing I want is her to leave. If she leaves I really feel like it has to end. I do not want to continue this pattern because I now understand the example it sets for my kids. I do not want to keep doing that to them anymore than I want to do it to myself.


LG [/quote]
And read up on Lovebusters. Sounds like you were doing a whole bunch of them.

and DR:

This place is about the changes that YOU will make. Not your WW. She might, but if you change, she may come.

And then we are working with something...

LG [/quote]
You are also correct about this. I have done almost all of them. I continue to do them but I am getting better I think.
I just hope she hangs around long enough to see it...

I think I do but talking to her to find out exactly what they are has gone no where. She just ends up frustrated and I can see I am making withdrawls rather than deposits.
The one's that I feel are at the top of her list are affection, conversation, and recreational companionship. These are the things that I know I was not meeting. And these were the things that the affair seemed to fill.
I am trying to fill them now but it is very hard. Too much affection seems to push her away and I have not found that line yet. Conversation is the hardest of all. The conversations are supposed to be about anything but "Us and what has happened" but I find it very hard to stay on course with that. She wants to know that I am concerned about her, that I am interested in her and what she did that day. She wants to hear "How has your day been?" and not "Have you thought about us?". She did open up enough to tell me that. We also have not had a lot of alone time in the last year, which is about the time frame she has told me she has been unhappy with me. I am also trying to fix that with phone calls and lunch/dinner dates. The current plan is to spend sometime shopping together this weekend. That is something that we used to do all the time but I quit going even when I was invited.

It has taken all of this for me to see that it is not neccesarily doing the things you enjoy, it is doing things with the person you enjoy.


LG [/quote]
Do you understand what plan A is?

Look for Pepperband's "the carrot and stick of Plan A."

It will help you to start changing your behaviors to start meeting her EN's.

LG [/quote]
I have read a little on it but I need to study it more.

DR,

I am a FWW. The only thing that will convince her that things have changed is for your actions to prove this, consistently, OVER TIME. Both of you have had a lot of years of dysfuntional patterns to change (as we did) and it won't happen overnight. Patience is the key here. You won't see results in the beginning, but if you hang in there, you will. She has her own withdrawal to go through.

Good for you in giving her things to read from the site.

Has NC with OM been established? Have you talked to her about counseling?

MAZ

I guess time is really what I am trying to convince her to give me. I understand she has some healing to do of her own but I have not talked to her about that. Again I am worried about pushing her farther away.
I have told her I am not asking her "if she is in love with me" I am asking "if she wants to be". I am holding on in case there is just one chance, just one last breath of life. I actually feel that I owe it to her after the things that I have done, even though she may not feel the same right now. I also feel I owe it to my children, how can I look them in the face knowing I did not do everything I could.
Just being here is a miracle for me. I am a fixer so it is very hard for me to admit I can't do something on my own and that I need help.
She says that NC with the OM has been established but I am not totally convinced. If anything I would think he would have done it after I talked to him. I am not sure of anything anymore to be honest. Which is one of my major LB's. I have a habit of badgering the witness but I am working on it.
I have told her that we do not have all the answers and I think that we need to talk to someone but she is not to the point where she is ready to discuss "us" more less sit down with a conselor. My intentions with introducing her to this site was to show her that she is not the only person that has ever felt this way, that we are not the only ones that have been through this.

dawaro, the others are right, you can't work on your marriage if you are not there. And she is not likely to be willing to work on anything unless you can demonstrate that you can be a committed married partner. So, I would suggest that you move home NOW. Just go there and move back into your room TODAY.

Secondly, I would eliminate all lovebusters NOW. No more badgering the witness or other unpleasant behavior. No pleading, whining, etc. Just focus on being pleasant as possible.

Another important factor will be no contact with the OM. I would watch very closely and make sure all contact has ended. You have a chance as long as contact has ended. If it hasn't, then she can't withdraw.

I tried to discuss coming home with her and things really went no where. She said that I am pushing and she does not want to rush into this. She said I am pushing her further away. I have checked everything I can and it does look like the NC has not been broken. She said that everytime we have done this in the past that things changed for the better for 6 months and then it slowly goes back to normal. She is also affraid she will still not be in love with me. It almost feels that she is so guilty that she is not in love with me that she is refusing to believe that she can be.
She said if I came home she would leave. What do I do? Do I continue to try and give her space or do I let her leave? I don't want her to leave. At least when she is at home with the kids I don't have to worry as much. If she leaves she said she is going to a friends house that spends much of her time bar hopping and that isn't what I want her to be around.
She said that she is reading the material I gave her but I am not sure how far she is through it.
I am trying to do little things to show her my affection and excitement. I have sent her flowers to work with the note "because you never thought I would", I send txt messages to let her know I am thinking about her and e-mails wishing her a good day, things like that. This morning I went to the house early in the morning and made her favorite breakfast while she was asleep. I put it on a platter with a card and left it in bed with her. I left the house and called her to tell her good morning so she would wake up and see it. Am I doing the right things?

Also can a Plan A be executed when you are not in the same household?

Wait a sec - she had the A and YOU left home?

Something's wrong with that picture...

FWIW I left because I was so hurt that I was affraid I would say things that could never be taken back. I did not want her to have to leave because I knew the house she would end up at isnt where I wanted her to be.

It doesn't matter at this point. She rented her a place today. She will be out of the house by the 1st. I actually took her to pick up her furniture for the new place today.

Although it is not recomended I pulled out everything I could today to try to avoid this. To her there is simply no hope that this can be fixed, that I can be fixed. She shows no signs of hope at all. She has never once discussed her faults or anything she can do better. It was just "I cant help the way I feel". She flat out refused to see a conselor, said it would not help. At the end of it all I dont think she wants it to help. I think convincing herself that it is terminal is her way to make it easier to do.

Thanks to everyone for their input but I think this case is closed. The simple truth is we live in a society that is gravitating toward self gratification and sacrifice for family is becoming less important. While the advice I have been given was to take what ever means neccessary to save our relationship hers was do what ever is going to make you happy.

The bright side of all of this is I may have saved another marriage by sharing the information I have learned on this site. 2 weeks ago I shared the information with a friend and he told me today that it has made a major difference in his marriage. Although they were not in trouble he felt that if not for their kids and a strong relationship with god & church they may not be together now. Apparently this stuff really works, if both parties want it to...

You can choose to end the marriage. Actually your wife is acting like they all do. Very seldom do we see a WS who is sorry, wants to work on things, etc. Mostly they feel entitled to do what they please. And that lasts as long as the affair.

Dewaro:


I liked this statement from you:

The simple truth is we live in a society that is gravitating toward self gratification and sacrifice for family is becoming less important


You have already divorced this woman and are living with her.

The committment was broken a long time ago.


YOU helped her move the furniture into her new place. That shows committment.

STOP

STOP

STOP

MAKE HER DO IT. MAKE HER MOVE EVERYTHING

SHE CAN'T HAVE ANYTHING FROM YOUR HOUSE WITHOUT A COURT ORDER.

IF SHE HUMPING, sorry, sleeping ON THE FLOOR, that's her CHOICE.

UNDERSTAND?

SHE IS DESTORYING YOUR FAMILY.

STOP HELPING HER!

LG

She is still on course to move out this weekend but there for the first time seems to be some hope. There are some basic details that I have failed to mention that I need to share to help you understand the full picture. First she suffers from bi-polar disorder. She was diagnosed almost a 1-1/2 years ago. So far she has struggled with it. Things got better but not to the point I would say she was well. Second her father was diagnosed with terminal cancer at the beginning of this year, a horrible event I did not support very well. On top of all this her younger brother and his 3 year old daughter, who she takes care of each night because he works nights, moved in with us in march. Although he has not caused any stess between us taking care of his daughter after working all day has cause her additional stress. A week after I moved out we went to her doctor and she was diagnosed with severe depression. I know all of these things have weighed heavily on her. My past neglect started the ball rolling and it just got bigger as it picked up steam with each of these things.

I have spent more time talking to her mother in the last few days than I have in the last few years. It has helped me to understand a lot of things about her that I never did before. It is amazing how much you can find out about a person when you actually care enough to ask the people close to them.

I tried to just completely cut her out of my life so I could just move on but my heart would not let me. We have talked a little and using information from the discussions with her mother got her to open up a little about what is going on.

Right now she is convinced that this is entirely her fault. That she should have been satisfied with what I had given her. That she has destroyed our family. My attempts to get her to understand the my contributions to the failure have not gone very well. She can not seem to get past her own guilt. Maybe it is a combination of the fog and the depression. Most of all she can't understand why I would still want her. She appears so truely ashamed of what she has done that she can't see it. In my heart I think part of it is she is not sure she could do it if the shoes were on the other feet. I am also sure that she has doubts about my sudden change of heart. I guess I would too if the roles were reversed.

Truth be told I do not even think about the affair that much. When I do I do not get angry about what happened I get angry about how I let it happen. I shared this with her today but I am sure she still has doubts. I have always had a problem letting go of past events and she is worried in the future it will come back up or she look in my eyes and worry that I am thinking about it. Lots of issues to work out...

But here is where the hope lies for me. Her brother had planned on getting his own place. They had discussed getting a place together but originally she did not want to do that. When I talked to her today she told me she had asked him to move in with her, that way if we were able to work things out he could just stay there when she went home. As minute as that sounds it is the first sign of hope that I have seen. It was an admittance that she at least thinks things can be worked out. Her doctor also recommended a MC yesterday and she is now open to that.

I know it is not a textbook repair attempt but at least it is an attempt.