I think for those of us in recovery, this is more a consideration for new people- people that are still feeling like their heart has been ripped from their chest and trampled on.

I'm not saying they should not be able to get help, but at whose expense?

What I don't want is for someone who is in fresh pain of an affair- their spouse has moved out and is living with the op, the divorce has been filed, etc - to see people they respect helping someone who is in a marriage that started with another person's devastation.

Yes, as has been said on this thread and others I can avoid posting to these people, ignore the thread, etc.

When I first came, I didn’t even want to look at the divorced and divorcing section. I couldn’t bring myself to even look at the pregnancy section of the site. If there had been a forum for those in affair marriages, I would not have looked at it either.

What about the person who clicks on a thread that the title sounds like another hurting person, someone in a similar situation- then they read oh yeah by the way, we started as an affair- imagine the pain.

What is wrong with asking folks in AMs to post elsewhere?


I know that this is a hard subject

My father and FIL are both married to their affair partners. One for 25 years, one for 20.

They both moved out of the family home and directly into the home of the OW.

Neither of our mothers fought for their marriage. My mother I think was actually relieved when he left. My mother has moved on and remarried. My MIL has not.

Until my H's A, I had issues with the fact that they were married to the OW. Now, I have MAJOR issues with it. There is not much I can do about it. My kids think of the steps as grandmothers as they have always been in their lives.


When I was 17 and 21 and they left our moms, we thought we were doing what we should in maintaining relationships with our fathers. Now, I see that us maintaining a relationship was in fact accepting of the fact they were with the ow. Now, being a BS, it really smacks me hard that we did that.

Honestly, this is so very hard for me and something I struggle with because of our parents. There are probably people that think I shouldn’t be around them or allow my children to be around them. Thankfully we only see them once or twice a year if that.

Infidelity – the gift that keeps giving.

Another thing that bothers me is that sometimes when so many people get tied up in discussions like this hurting people are not helped. That is very sad to me.

Do you mean my elitist list folks?

nope

anyone may post

it's up to us to run the varmints off *spits in spittoon*

a fountainhead of pain
goes for generations

A former member who was, in reality, several college students "gaming" everyone on MB for a college class project paper.

If you are really curious, do a search on the name for about 3 years ago.

A really bad incident of true abuse of the system and the helping nature of so many who tried to help the "made up" situation.

I don't know what the question was anymore, Pep. Call it too much interference from taking the clothes out of the washer, watching Cops, cooking & eating dinner, re-reading Starship Troopers, posting here, reading email, posting on other boards, closing windows because the severe thunderstorm watch just went to a warning, etc., etc. I apologize. The decision's been made anyway.

me too

cooking
talking to kids
giving H the stink-eye

Just Jilly,
I vehemently disagree you "found" yourself on this path. I strongly suggest you "PLACED" yourself there of free will as a CHOICE.

Your choice of words in the sentence above regarding your affair implies you still haven't taken responsibility. "Found oneself there" like a force of nature where one has no choices, claiming no ownership for one's behavior or actions.

Jo

ETA: So this is one of the members who MB is supporting to fix her affair marriage? And she claims she is no longer in the fog but states she "found herself in an affair". Lord .... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/teary.gif" alt="" />

How very sad, a small taste of MB's future.

Why does that NOT surprise me. Do you remember how they were found out? If not, I will go take a look.

And thank you for the reply.

Larry

People began to question the vary differing posting styles, etc., all under the name of one supposed person, Dustkitty. Finally they "confessed" and the "doo-doo" hit the fan for a while. As I recall, even the professor of the class was involved, but my "old timers disease" could be playing with my recollection.

Jo,

You are absolutely correct that is what I wrote.

Here is the whole paragraph so the context of what I said can be seen in its entirety... not that that will really make a difference to you. I already know where you stand in regards to me. You have made you posistion very clear. I respect that you feel that way.

What I did state there is that waywardness is a STATE of mind and it isn't limited to "rutting" with someone else's husband. I know what a vile act I CHOSE. No one else chose that for me but ME. Yes I made some vile choices. I can't go back and change that now. I OWN every bit of that choice and my position on that is that it was WRONG.

My statement was to clarify that I BELIEVE that waywardness is a state of mind NOT limited to cheating. I have not cheated again... my point was that just because I CHOSE not to cheat again did NOT mean that I didn't still have waywardness that led to me making other self destructive choices. I own that too.

If you want to believe that I still think that my affair was something that just happened ... that I just fell into fine that is your choice to believe that is what I think. I can assure you though from my end that is NOT my belief about what happened.

I posted on this thread to try to see if maybe Zog could get some help off of GQ away from the BS in the trenches which is what I was told was the deeper issue of my posting here to GQ. I CHOSE to go elsewhere on this board to a much less frequented section of MB. Am I wrong to suggest to Zog that he do the same? I thought that was point.


____________________________________________________________
Zog, I apologize for posting to your thread. I meant no disrespect to you... you can choose for yourself if you want to stay here on GQ. I believe there are some very remarkable posters here who can and will choose to help you. There will also be those here that won't like you or your situation and I am sure you can and do understand that.

There will also be those that won't like it if anyone here chooses to help you and will state that those that do try to help you change your mindset so that you can CHOOSE to get off the wayward insanity bus.... are PRO AFFAIR. Be clear that just because someone chooses to help you doesn't make them pro affair or that they APPROVED that you made the choice you did. They don't. Trying to help you change now does not mean they condone what you did.... just that perhaps they believe that people can change. I am not the same person I was 12 years ago and I doubt you are the same person you were 30 years ago.

I will not post to this thread again.

Hokay, for posterity, here is what I found. I didn't read all of dustkitty posts. The one I did read started out with a classic arese chewing by a long time poster. This was in 2003. I was sad to see that poster eventually stopped posting in 2004 because recovery didn't take and the marriage failed.

I will repost the classic just for the heck of it and because it contains information about the ethics of university level research in human behavior. The thread was heavily edited by justuss, whose final post was for dustkitty to email her.

++++++

DrCu said:

OK, I took the "5 post-grad students" line as a poor joke. If that is in fact true, I'd like to know about it. I'd also like to know at what institution you are studying. Further, I would like to know whether you are conducting research here, and whether your research plan has been approved by the human subjects committee, or equivalent organization, at your institution. I want to see your research protocol and your approved application to your human subjects committee. Please remember that such an organization, and approval of research plans involving research into human behavior, is a requirement of federal law for all academic institutions receiving federal funding. Remember that violation of the informed consent policies of your institution or the federal government may result in disciplinary action against your institution. Furthermore, you may be liable to civil penalties for violating the informed consent policies of your institution or the federal government.

Do not think that this is a threat. I promise you, if you have been f**king with this group of people, I will do everything in my power to see that the penalties imposed upon you and your institution are as severe as I can make them. I have been in the human subjects research business for 21 years and I know of what I speak.

Immediately after I post this note, I will point out your post to the moderators. If you have not responded to this post to my satisfaction by 10:00 AM tomorrow, Wednesday, September 24, I will ask them to provide me with as much detail as they can with regard to your institution, e-mail addresses, etc. With that in hand, I will do my best to contact your institution, your major professors, and the ombudsman or ethics office at your institution. I will post whatever details I am able to discover on this board so that members who choose to do so can pursue civil action against you or your institution as they see fit.

____

Larry

PS Oddly enough, after a couple of posts that justuss edited, dustkitty went to the dustbin and I saw no more posts at least that I could find.

Hi BobPure.

I haven’t voted yet. I’m still thinking.

I can tell you that I know a man that has been in an A-marriage for 25 years.

They don’t want anyone to know that their oldest son isn’t his legitimate offspring.

They don’t want anyone to know that he was the OM and his W left her then H to shack up with this guy who was the H’s “best friend” previously.

25 years later they still own the shame and disgrace of their contaminated marital history.

They do have children out of their legal union.

Their marriage is plagued with deception, mistrust, and selfishness. I guess they are some of the few 3% successful long term affair marriage folks.

When my cohort last asked me about his W’s manic behavior, I asked him “what do you know now about her that you didn’t know the day you ran off with her?”

I know it sounds cold, but since I see no hope for either of them with happiness, I had to ask him.

He said, “you are right, I knew all of this when I married her, but it would cost me too much to divorce her now, she’ll get half the house”.

Nature has interesting ways of making sure that there is someone for everyone out there.

Until people like these can stand on the mountain top and shout to all the world, “We are affairees! or We destroyed a marriage to have this one! or We want our kids to know that they have different fathers! or God will not punish us for our sin, as we can do anything we want and he will be cool with it! or Damnit it felt good at the time!”……

I will continue to do like the rest of society that I am a part of and view their actions as those of immature, cowardly, selfish people. I don’t much care for helping them at all really.

But I will say that somewhere along the line, if they are the .001% of the 3% that make it and find true remorse and repent that they deserve a chance. If God would give the repentant man a chance then who am I to say they shall find no grace in me to forgive them.

If they have children involved, then sorry, I believe that the children become the focal point of the universe and should suffer not for their idiotic parents poor judgments.

I don’t like throwing the baby out with the bath water.

Kids don’t ask to be brought into this crazy world nor do they get to pick their parents. I’m very black and white about my views on self sacrifice for the childrens’ sake, that being “do whatever it takes”.

I believe I would support people finding resolutions to marital issues in long term marriages that involve children; as that may be the best case for the poor kids born into this crap sitch.

I don’t see a one size fits all here.

These cases may simply be beyond the scope of MB'rs and I don't believe they will get a fair shake on the forum anyhow.

I think someone would have to be crazy as an outhouse rat to seek help on a forum like this in the first place.

Hey Plank:

Where the cat hair have you been? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Larry

And you personally are here exactly because?....

Personally I'm glad I came here and eternally grateful for all those who helped me.

I think Plank meant people from A Marriages would have to be crazy for seeking help on a forum like this.

At least, that's how I took it, knowing Plank. Plank can answer for himself when he's back.

Plank needs to write a book on funny sayings.

Larry

Plank needs to write a book period.

Dustkitty's last signature line:
"Dustkitty" is 5 post grad students. Thanks to all of you that spend so much time here. We have the material for our thesis. To find and do the case histories on those 10 we selected to "follow"...would have taken away from our "pub" time. Thanks, ****, ****, ******, ******??, ******* (our favorite because we think you are a man!), and a few others that we selected because you are so darn funny. We thank ******, *****, ******, and ******...we like you, you won't be on the cover of Time Mag. Mr. Harley and your phantom moderators....we thank you for investing in this technology...and then letting the inmates run the "forum"

Eric, Jason, Neil, Jen and Jill...Eric wrote the mean posts and our Prof wrote H&F...that is a cute baby...we all love you."

This still makes me mad. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> It's also a salutory lesson. You can try and filter and control all you/we like but it's still the internet.

You know, they might not have even been grad students, just trolls. Or maybe even one troll.

A ton of their posts was over on the emotional needs forum. And you may be right APH. To register with this site, you have to supply an email address. Yet Justuss asked dustkitty to email her. Who knows...

Larry