PLEASE SKIP THAT POST

Justuss

I do not know your history, I'm afraid. If by any chance you share my history, that is you were once a BS perhaps you can recall if you were able to intelligently avoid those posts which were demotivating to you when you were at your most low and vulnerable ?

I know that for myself and many of the many tens of folks I have assisted to recovery via these forums and elsewhere, it was NOT possible. Such requires a logic and a sentience that is lacking when the very floor of our world has been ripped away leaving us hanging.

I remember in "the bad days" voraciously reading every thread, every "notable post" every reply , mentally "refixing the odds" on our recovery as I saw examples of entangled affairs fall and recovery ensure, then dropping them back when I saw NC breaks or false recoveries.

ANY sign ,ANYTHING , good or ill, engendered wild optimism or suicidal pessimism for a good while after d-day and finding these wonderful boards.

It has been a successful part of the approach I have used to such folks that I will calmly point out Dr Harley's statistics: that MOST affairs end; that affair marriages older than 5 years are rarer than chicken teeth etc etc. This serves to provide a reliable, calming statistical backdrop as myself and others soothe and encourage folks to study and apply Dr Harleys proven methods as the numbers tell them the affair will end.

Imagine then the situation I wrote above - my work colleage arrives here in affair fog after I have delivered him the stats , explained about "surviving an affair" and that most WS become FWS and regret their affairs however viable they may seem at the time.

He reads here - sees a 30 year A marriage - encouraging of his affair in itself - and then sees wise folks lending it support, considering it a legitimate target for marrigebuilding.

It makes the EXCELLENT Dr Harleys' stats and methods appear "foolish", and renders impotent my efforts so far in trying to bring a realistic view of the consequences of his decisions to his consciousness.

And then imagine I send his BW here. Or his OWs BH, both of whom I am trying to contact and help....

As I have stated so many times I would not "banish" anyone nor force anyone to post anywhere. But those of us who work these boards, policed by YOU Justuss , do have an unspoken code as to how to process petitioners.

We send some folks from JFO to GQ2, some from GQ2 to EN, Pregnancy or Recovery etc etc as appropriate. We call out aiders with proven skills in a certain area: 2x4's, exposure, reverse babble ( thanks Orchid ;0 ) for example.

We are a ramshackle team for sure, but using Dr Harleys resources we have SAVED MARRIAGES here and started the process to healing hearts.

None of this is directly sanctioned by the Harleys, Justuss, but from time to time it works pretty well I think.

My effort here is NOT to prevent A-marriages or anyone else in need getting help, Just that THEIR help does not cause other " little ones to stumble".

"Shunning", "banishing" there are all emotive words that do not belong in this discussion IMO.

I would have the board determine a way to handle A-marriage support in a way that removes the controversy and potential for damage and gets the petitioners the help they need, and that is OF COURSE sanctioned by the Harelys and moderatable by you. Zog for example was sent from a quiet place to the maelstom of GQ2. Had he been sent to where Jilly is being helped there would have been NO drama. No board war. No BS and FWS being hurt by this.

Maybe my objective is too lofty , because this issue is too divisive. Already I have had so many words put in my mouth I am choking on them, yet still I persist because I BELIEVE IN THESE BOARDS. Dr Harley's methods ,through his books and with interpretation and comfort from the fine folks on these boards saved my marriage and in all probability my very life.

I owe it to Dr Harley, these boards and the folks that take time to help me and others to try to get a resolution to this controversial issue.

If Dr Harley, or the consensus of the boards view is that it is wrong to support A-marriage in a quieter place than GQ2, I will abide by that, and withdraw from this wonderful resource. Not through any "sulk" but because I cannot imagine how I can help anyone end an affair while we are counselling what they fear most in our midst. I could no longer add any value.

I fully understand your postion Justuss. You have responded quickly to me over the years and I do appreciate your hard job.

All blessings

Bob

DON'T help and DON'T CARE.

You Busted me LG !

I don't help. In fact I didn't spend my Sunday morning today writing email responses to MB questioners. I haven't called people overseas at my expense when they seemed scarily depressed. I haven't worked the small hours night after night virtually holding the hands of broken people, praying with them: offering Dr Harley's methods to apply to their situations.

Nor have I offered 2 X 4s to people who haven't yet realised that the [email]cr@p[/email] of an affair is only deep enough to drown you if you cringe in it.

I haven't opened up my most vulnerable soul to scared folks who needed to see that they were not alone. I have never cried in prayer asking that God gives me wisdom to talk down a broken BS or WS when I was fresh out of my own wisdom.

I don't care at all, LG. That I have become vilified by my attempt to raise this issue for resolution surely means just that I am entitled, not that I care PASSIONATELY for the boards and the vulnerable people on it more than I do for my own reputation.

Busted at last as the entitled, prejudiced, unhelpful windbag I truly am.

D'oh!

I feel ashamed for you LousyGolfer <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

lousy thing to say

Bwa ha ha ha ha ha!

Look out folks...if you are considering an affair be warned that marrying your OP has the power to change your RACE.

This is catastrophic! Just THINK of what this is goping to do with regard to current minority status laws...the chaos! The paperwork!

If indeed the decision of mods is to actively SUPPORT and DEFEND affair marriages...giving them protected status...that's my cue to exit.


So long folks, it's been real.

LG,

I edited my most previous post but decided to add this here, too:

My H's grandmother refused to come to our wedding b/c in her eyes I had the wrong color skin. (We didn't find out for 10 years.)

Your comment did not offend me, but I would use a different analogy to make your point.......and possibly offer an apology to those who might have been offended.

Ace

I read LG's comparison this way...

When Zog and Jilly came here, they were 12 years, 28 years into their A marriages...which is saying this is where I am right now...I can't go back and change anything...this is where I am.

Close to the color of their skin...that reference. What they cannot change now.

I realize that skin color is for life and the wayward mindset is not...however, as Jilly said, you can experience it for your life to this point...as I did...and others here. Until we do change.

I cannot change the past anymore than I could change my skin color. The rejection of the posters who reject helping long-term A marriages felt the same to me, for they rejected my posting to these people, and I took it as a rejection of me.

I've experienced prejudice on both sides...for my skin, my gender, my beliefs...one of those things for me to work through. So the other thing I found in LG's post was the group against anyone in an A marriage...and not treating the individual, case by case.

Not mentioned were all the times I've told A marriages in their beginnings, their first year, second or third year to stop, divorce, do not have children...and to redeem themselves through their choices in the present, to have a thriving life, NOT in an A marriage.

What I wonder is that not only did MFZ come onto MB at this time, so recent from the JJBA thread...so did vicker. She came here while having an A with her XH, who was in an A marriage--and his OWW was on her sixth marriage.

Where were all these same posters advising her? I asked her to move over to GQII and she did. And I didn't see any of these same folks posting to her. I'm talking about the ones who may have advised her to fight for her real marriage...she divorced quickly and then regretted it...as a BS...and she's struggling right now.

Been wanting to ask that of BobPure, Noodle, MEDC and the others. Now I have.

LG, lemme know if I'm close to your reasoning. I appreciate your feedback.

LA

People don't choose their skin color

If I could, I'd choose a coppery bronze, like my daughter ... not freckly pasty pale

People do choose who they marry

They choose who they betray

Our skin color is God-given
Affair marriages are not a very good comparison to something God-given, in my opinion

Pep, I agree with you.

My intent was to break down what LG's point was to parts...because I don't doubt for a second LG is a strong MB member and did not make that comparison frivilously.

The very wayward mindset has that ingredient "Not my fault. This is how I am. I was born this way." Doesn't mean it's real...or is in reality. Means that's the mindset. They do not for a second recognize they are choosing...and they are, as you said.

No excuse here. Just going again for what may be beneficial in LG's comparison.

I'll wait for LG now...because I'm getting defensive, which signals me that I'm taking attack where it very well might not be at all.

Guess I'm asking LG to clarify or confirm...before I get all reactive, eh?

(Freckly pasty pale, eh? My first mother was like that...I used to think God had painted secret pictures on her skin...loved to trace them and wonder. Quite a gift to me, her skin. She called them God kisses.)

LA

<BIG SIGH> Just WOW LG.

Whatever you do don't take into account how many of us have been here for YEARS paying it forward (6000+ posts and then some) supporting BS and FWS through this life altering experience.

Very unfair and uniformed assessment of yours. Not to mention dissappointing.

I've come to expect that stuff from LG...but for Justuss to edit me call him a donkey butt (nice way of putting it)for his references to race and calling others here hypocrites and then to leave LG's name calling intact is beyond comprehension at this point.

I for one will not recommend this site to anyone going through infidelity until I have seen a clear reply from the owners of this site on this particular issue. Just from a purely business perspective, I am left to wonder of the Harley's would not do well to address this issue themselves as there are some long time posters here that are quite upset over this issue. The last I checked, 86% of those that responded to BobP's question have a problem with A marriages being suppported here.
Anyone that has an appointment scheduled with the Harley's should be sure to mention their displeasure with this issue. I am certain that if they were to hear about how this issue impacts some BS on this site they might decide to make some modifications here.
When a poster like BobP is ready to walk away because of this issue, I would think that the powers that run this board better take a hard look at their "business" plan and how it is impacted by the situational ethics that are running rampant here these days.

MEDC

Noodle,

I don't read Justuss's words that way at all. Justuss is not drawing any lines and is clearing saying that he/she/they won't get into moderating out affair marriages posting on this board. The moderator decision is to maintain little moderation. These threads are not getting locked and nothing we have said to Zog or Justjilly has gotten edited. They aren't protected any more than you and I are.

It's a discussion board. Sick Adulterous Marriages can come here and discuss...get knocked around and then leave just as any of us can. Justuss is asking "them" to withhold from commenting about "our" compassionate majority opinions (calling them unchristianlike or not nice) as much as she/he/they are saying we should avoid the thread if they hurt us.

In the end, I think that if the moderators get TOO involved..it would be worse up in here.

Now...if my opinions to Zog were to begin to be edited. That may be a different story.

Mr. Wondering

LA, Pep & other posters re: LG's comment who may hit 'submit' before I get this done,

As one who might have taken offense to LG's comments, I choose to believe the reasoning LA gives whether LG meant it that way or not. Thanks for clarifying for me, as least, why I was not offended.

Maybe using another inherent (sp?) trait might have been better.....naturally brown eyed, naturally right-handed or having an innie or outie <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />.....anything else that might not detract from the point he was trying to make.

Ace

EDITED TO DELETE: Jo from salutation due to error

Where were all these same posters advising her?

I was probably helping other posters and / or living my life, just as you were when I have helped people that you haven't LA.

Who knows what draws us to certain posters and situations ?

I took Justuss words exactly as Noodle has.

AiB,

Its the above and the name calling (i.e., Hypocrites x2) I'm referring to in my earlier response to LG.

Although it's quite obvious LG's post is emotionally charged, there is no excuse for his inaccurate accusations of members who've invested themselves and their time to support the MB membership for literally years.

Jo

Ok, here's my little unheard voice again.

Here's a hypothetical for you. Most of you know me well. I've been around a long time. Now, say I completely lapsed and came on the board to tell you that OM and I were SO happy, we'd finally got together and were going to get married. Our spouses were devastated and our kids hated us and would never speak to us again, but we were SO happy and our A marriage was going to be fantastic.

Then I would say to everyone I still want to be on MB because it had given me so much in the past and people here are my friends.

Come on guys, what to do you think you'd say to me. Would you say, we know Jen well, we want her to be happy, MB principles and concepts can make her new marriage really great.

Do you see what I'm saying?

I heard you Jen. In fact I LISTENED for you.

If we were really your friends (even in a virtual sense), we'd slap you silly for being the fog, then ask if you wanted help being pulled out. We would risk you getting angry as we all work hard trying to bring you back to reality.

If you insisted on being a WS for life, then we'd have to let our friendship go. If you were able to change your life around, acknowledge and repent, not be a WS or OP anymore, then we would be there to support and help you.

There was a another poster many years ago who was an Xws, divorced her H and later each remarried. She married for the 2nd time but not to the OM. It was another man which she is (I believe) still happily married to. This poster has been a great help to many and helped many a BS to understand the Xws POV so that they in turn could help their Xws'.

The point is who is the WS here? WS' who marry the OP run the risk of becoming the BS. Visa versa on the OP as well. Their risk is greater but when they become the BS, they fall into the same sick cycle. What most realize is that being a BS is more painful. Knowing both sides may help but not reduce the pain. The current WS' still is out to hurt any BS in their path. That is just their way.

So when an Xws turned BS comes here....what are we suppose t/d? ...... you all know the answer. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

L.

Jo,

I agree with you and apologize for including your post when I commented to LA. (Note I have edited that post.)

Speaking for myself, if I say I want to help others, but I spend more of my posting time trying to change things beyond my control instead of helping others (and abiding by the hosts choices regarding guest guidelines), might I be a hypocrite for saying I want to help but not following through at that particular time?

Yes, based on the previous definitions of the word on this thread.

That does not negate my 700+ posts in 4+ months that may have helped a few, but more might have been helped if I did not concentrate on hot issues during what little time I may have to post.

I'm not defending or accusing LG...merely making a point of my own choices.

Thanks for your response and for caring enough to point out my error.

Ace

PS Unless I am tubed, I'll refrain from this thread from now on so I will no longer be a hypocrite....my choice. (I seldom participate on hot issue threads anyhow.)

Amen JEN.