WE already knew that about you leftcoasters. Buncha dopers.. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

You OD on chocolate again Pep?

Larry

steroids/antibiotics/and *slurp* cough suppressants

I *laugh* at chocolate

"Ha Ha"

I thought Pep was just being her authentic self.

The questions.

I’m gonna take another stab at this.

[color:"blue"]Does supporting A-marriages on GQ2 hurt Vulnerable readers?[/color]

It may or may not depending on the fragility of that reader and their emotional state.

Personally, I read on these boards that this thing (my M at the time) might have been so far in the ditch that it was irretrievably gone forever. But that there was still hope… that echoed in my minds eye.

I’m GLAD that I had the awareness that it could be forever over and that the draw to the OM might have been so compelling that my FWW could have left me for him; for good.

I’m GLAD that people here slapped me around a little bit and coached me into the realization that I WAS MAKING A CHOICE, and that it was based upon a complete awareness of the whole gambit of possible outcomes.

But, my reality at the time was such that I had to come to terms with the fact that my WW was having sex with another man and that she didn’t love me anymore; or at least didn’t love me in any way that I could comprehend.

So my answer is yes it likely does hurt them, but it can be a good kind of hurt that will hopefully result in them applying Harley’s program with maximum effort while protecting themselves from a friggen crazy person.

[color:"blue"]Does supporting A-marriages on GQ2 encourage wayward spouses and OP’s? [/color]

Any maniac that would look at statistics like a 3% success rate and take that on gets an A in my book for fortitude and an E for sanity.

They are going to cull all the bad out of their situation anyhow and I don’t believe that reading a few sentences out of context in all the MB forums catalogs will make or break the spirit that the infidels have one bit. They would get more motivation by searching the Sunday paper for “pay by the hour” uhem, hotels.

TOW would be a much better place for them to practice better slutdom.

[color:"blue"]If affair marriages are to be supported on these boards they should: [/color]

My pick is – other.

It’s up to the contributor. I can see that clearly now.

If it’s against your (or my) moral capabilities then I agree with Justus and think that you/me should refrain from posting.

People that are in a LTA marriage have likely got a whole bunch of issues to deal with and Harley’s principles are likely not going to be applied for the long haul.

For instance, I don’t see how you can have radical honesty with a person that has committed one of the most atrocious social crimes possible while being a party in FULL KNOWLEDGE of exactly how they pulled it off and have any respect for them. Remember, they saw nearly every lie unfold and every instance of deceit that was dealt by the co-adulterer.

Personally, if I saw all that going down while I was the OM, I would never trust the woman again.

Trust is hard enough to live through truths in our daily lives when it’s based upon something that was once upon a time legitimate and based on goodness. Anything based on [censored], is going to be [censored].

Sorry to have been the cause for your heavy heart there Bobpure. You, like always, very handily described your questions with the precision of an expert fencer.

I just got so caught up in all the drama that I became Plank the Emotional.

Still, I have very rarely seen a long term affair seeded marriage BS take over another persons thread or impose themselves on someone elses ride. They usually post there own thread and ask for the fast food style answers that they want to hear, those that choose to help can help.

BTW, for what it's worth, I never stayed in any of the areas of fair play in the forums; I read EVERYTHING. Every nook and cranny thinking that there would be some gold nugget that was hidden somewhere.

But now I know that all you folks are the golden nuggets!

I appreciate each and every one of you, even if you piss me off from time to time.

Now back to Plank the Neanderthal!!

"You ran over your first family to get married to this soulmeat? Man, that's DOPE bro. That took courage and huevos. YOU 'da man! let me show you how to hide money so you can skip that stoopid child suport that is costing you so much you can hardly make your boat payments."

[color:"red"]BP [/color]

Bwhahahahaha

Hello Piojitos.

I guess I have my own language. I'll try country boy dialect on ya and see what happens.

[color:"blue"]I think someone would have to be crazy as an outhouse rat to seek help on a forum like this in the first place.[/color]

When I said that, I meant people in A's or in A marriages that were trying to further their ends here on the MB forum. Kookoo, to come here and work on the Harley program. Maybe my last above post will help. Particularly with all the antagonism that is reasonable to expect from the majority audience that this sordid subject draws... that being mainly BS's.

Jen you were right!

wanna step outside Plank?

I think I could take you

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" />

[color:"red"] BP [/color]

Actually I am not that personally offended by being called crazy as an outhouse rat. I grew up in Arkansas.

Larry

There are very real examples sadly, even from only the Jilly situation of WS an dOPs being encouraged by teh support of A-marriages.

Click here if your stomach can stand it then read the whole thread for the other OWs who purr and take support from this.

So you know the background, "Spectacles" was an active OW whose "BS" had returned to his BW to try to recover his marriage.

Spectacles pursued him mercilessly both on and off these boards until around this time Scott left his BW to be with Spectacles.

Read this single post , then read the many other posts that reinforce this on that thread and tell me its good marriagebuilding to abet affair marriages on these boards.

FH defended his position vociferously as you will read, but how can dogma be important when it encourages affairs ? Bearing in mind that MANY posters are not religious so couldn't care less about anyones religious dogma.

IWRA is another A-spouse that took great strength from this thread.

Then if you still have the stomach for it search on TheNewPinkPaige and see her purring at the legitimisation of a-marriages in related threads. then read the responses of BS and FWS to these folks embracing of A-marriage.

If my words had EVER been used to encourage the ending of a potentially rescuable non-affair marriage , whatever my dogma I would be devastated.

I tried to avoid dragging this up again as it will likely stir up more shouting, but several have considered my position to be opinion not supported by evidence.

Well, here's the evidence.

FH

You said :
You don't really think that I would tell such a person, "it's okay, go ahead and continue your affair," do you?

You don't need to. Your words here, clearly unintended to encourage active affairs have already done so.

Click here to see wher an active OW took encouragement from your words to Jilly

Although you may not have intended to encourage affairs, this is the effect that any affirmation of A-marriages, religious or otherwise always has on these boards IME.

Spectacles was / is an aggressive OW who pursued her OM / BS on these boards at around the time of your post.

I would seek to avoid this in future. That's all.

Bob, once again you seem to miss the entire point in your blanket condemnation of ANY adulterous marriage, including one to a former affair partner.

The thread in question that you keep referring to was specifically FOR JustJilly. She had accepted Christ since her affair just as you and I accepted Christ at some point in our lives. The POINT of Christian forgiveness of sin is that God forgives ALL of our sins, makes a new creation of believers, and "wipes the slate clean." The person is given a new heart that seeks after God DESPITE all their past sins (that they are painfully aware now were FIRST and foremost a sin against God).

There is NOTHING in any of my posts that "encourages an affair." Brother, as a fellow formerly Betrayed Spouse, I KNOW the pain of infidelity and I also know that not all "MB" advice is applicable to EVERY situation, especially when the application of that advice is based upon the OPINION of the person posting the advice.

I give you this simple testimony...my marriage would NOT have survived and my wife would not now be in love with me and deeply ashamed of her past poor choice of infidelity if it were not for God. It was HIS intervention and the willingness of both of us to surrender our emotions and reactions to HIM, trusting in His ability to resurrect something that was dead.

If you consider my belief and trust in God to be some sort of "misguided dogma," then I can't help your interpretation. All I can say is that I think you are wrong and that the person that I am most interested in concerning His opinion of me is God.

If you don't believe that a person has all of their sins forgiven when they accept Jesus Christ and that God, in His grace and mercy, creates a "new person" who seeks after God, then we do have differing views about God and what He provides for believers. If you DO believe those things, then why do you persist in trying to paint me as some "uncaring, unfeeling," person? As I have told you many times, I make decisions on who I may or may not be able to offer some help to on an INDIVIDUAL basis, not on some "set in concrete" set of Boundaries that denies the reality of God in someone's life, regardless of their past sins. You may well have a personal Boundary that is "set in concrete" concerning helping anyone who is in a marriage that began in adultery. You can even have a Boundary that parses that "adulterous marriage" to just the specific subset of an "adulerous affair partner marriage." You are completely entitled to have whatever Boundary you choose. But you are not, anymore than I am, to "free" to "impose" your Boundary on someone else, or on the entire system for that matter. State your position, but don't carry it over into a "dogmatic imposition of your Boundary" on someone else simply because you believe EVERYONE else should have the very same Boundary.

What IS "encouraged" in my posting is NOT affairs, but the forgiveness and new life that available to ALL who accept Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.

There have even been many Betrayed Spouses that I have "advised" to not "toss in the towel" despite their very tough situtations, including you. The "human worldview" might well be to end a marriage when the WS is so mean and resistant to reconciliation, or when the pain for the BS seems so overwhelming and the "strike back in anger" emotional reaction is so tempting, and for those without God, there may be no other choice that they can accept. But for believers, NOTHING is impossible for God and I encourage them to put their trust in God, no matter what the WS may eventually do, and let God help them recover their marriage if that is His will. It is one of the primary reasons why I lean so heavily upon God's promise to believers, and to believers only, that He gave us in Philippians 4:13. "I CAN do everything THROUGH Him (Jesus) who GIVES me (His unlimited) strength." (emphasis added)

I don't care who the Betrayed Spouse is, believer or unbeliever, infidelity will most often EXCEED our own limited human strength, and it is WITH God that we are able to endure. It is with God that we are able to forgive AS He has forgiven us for our own sins. It is with God that a "new creation" can rise from the ashes of sin against God.

It is HOPE, not support for affairs, that is the message I have tried to consistently make clear that is available to all IN Christ Jesus.

"Let him who is without sin cast the first stone." I am a sinner, Bob. But I am a sinner who's sins have been forgiven by and for Christ based upon what HE did and NOT based upon anything that I did, or could do.

It would seem from you post that you think that because there ARE people on MB who do not accept Christ that support for a fellow believer should not be offered simply because others might find that support to be "offensive" in their interpretation. I, obviously, disagree if that is really what you are trying to say. If it isn't, then the forgiveness of sins found in Christ and helping a fellow believer is not only right, but is the responsibility of fellow believer. Case by case, Bob. Individual by individual. It really can't be any other way, imho, as a fellow forgiven believer.

God bless.

Ok, I read carefully.

I asked:



Then I read Plank's comment:

"Crazy as an outhouse rat."

So there you go, those two affairees are crazy as an outhouse rat. My attempt to be logical failed to consider the brain warped, emotionally stupid and their ability to read what they want to read.

Thank you Bob for answering my questions.

Larry

FH:

I read Bob's references. It didn't take me long. I had avoided those threads for my own personal reasons.

I do not think he is attacking you or challenging your God given point of view. I will not either. In terms of forgiveness, I am with you.

The point is this, certain people out there who would appear to be crazy as an outhouse rat will twist your words to justify their insanity. You are not responsible for this. There is no fault attached to your position as I see it. It was not your intention to give aid and comfort to the enemy.

They choose to find aid and comfort from your words. As it now appears to me, they would read the following sentence:

Affair marriages almost never work. The dynamics of the affair itself insures this unhappy consequence.

They see only the bold words.

Larry

I would also point out that the starter of that thread was a notorious and shameless OW who trolled this board for years attacking regular members and promoting affairs under about 10 aliases. [I was attacked under every name for my anti-affair comments] The support of affair marriages suited her agenda very well. She was downright GLEEFUL about JustJilly and was even in email contact with her encouraging her on. IWRA/SARIE/BlessedTime, etc was banned from this board. BobPure is very correct when he states that the accommodation of affair marriages here encourages, enlivens and emboldens the sick minds of OP's.

LG Here:

JustUss, Are you out there? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Let me be clear in what my point is:

Is this site overrun with Affair Marriages seeking support?

No. I don't think so.

But there are alot of others seeking support that get ignored while we all beat each other up on this thread and Zog's thread.

Should someone in an AM be shunned/banished? That is why I had my reference to race. They are to be immediately shunned/banished because they are in a AM. Because once you start with this, then it isn't long until we start classifying others to go elsewhere.

Rather harsh, on it face, and against the TOS of this site.

And bias against another strictly for one part of thier being is discrimination. That is the reference. (Skin color is not a choice, but waywardness IS, True)

Can there be another forum on this site for them. Sure. JustUss can ask for that to happen. You can too. The site has changed in the past, and it will again.

Did I say that everyone around here didn't help, ever? No, I said that this thread and the ZOG thread were getting action and the people who were coming here for HELP for the first time, were getting ignored.

And I backed it up with the activity for the past four-five days.

GQII gets the most activity and the greatest number of members logged on at any time on this site. Close to 50% at any one time are on this forum on this site. At this time 75 out of 165 are on this forum.

So, let the AM threads die because they are ignored. Don't keep them alive arguing about whether they should be there or not.

JMHO

LG

It was a dreadful analogy, LG, and I am embarrassed for you. To equate RACE discrimination is ludicrous and to imply that others on this thread don't help others is outrageous. Many of us have been here doing the heavy lifting FOR YEARS while you were out having your affair.

And of course we are all "biased" here. We very discriminately select who to help and who not to help based on what we think have to offer. If I think I have nothing to offer, I don't post. I wasn't posting here and still had nothing to offer those posters you mentioned.

Perhaps you should take your own advice and quit posting here?

back in from the field, huh?

not bad at all larry

for a Texan, you're allright