Good luck with avoiding this in the future, Bob. I truly wish it could be avoided. It's been my experience that active Other Women and active Wayward Spouses don't need any encouragement from anyone, they have all of it that they need in themselves and are NOT supported or encouraged by anyone here on MB, or by any comments of someone to another member that they can twist to their own use. That they CAN use anything to support, justify, or rationalize their behavior is "normal operating mode" for the alien personality and the evil minded.

So lets all just be complacent. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Only the MODS have the power to "exclude" anyone from this board so this is a moot point. Otherwise, I have a choice about whom I will or won't post to. As does every other poster here. I will usually ignore someone who offends me; that is my prerogative. I am very discriminate about who I post to based upon whether or not I can or WANT TO help them. I won't help someone save an affair marriage, for example, because saving the marriage is not the issue, IMO.

FH you said

There is NOTHING in any of my posts that "encourages an affair."

I agree with you and explained that in my post FH. I do not accuse you of deliberately abetting affairs.
But it is incontrovertably true and factual as demonstrated by the link I gave you that your innocent words in defence of certain A marriages ENCOURAGED OWs IN THEIR AFFAIRS.

This is why I think A-marriages should be counselled in a place away from where this consequence is less likely to down heart others.

I do not argue with your biblical assertions. I don't really care about that to be honest at this time.

I care that provably ANY words said in apparrent defence of A-marriages under any circunstances does serve to encourage WS and OPs and discourage BS vulnerable BS and FWS.

This is why I said you have "only" your dogma , FH. it was not a slating from me but it is SO IMPORTANT to you that you just cannot see the wood for the scriptural trees.

Can you see that from the evidence I posted, just discussing your view of the forgivability of some A marriages in GQ2 ENCOURAGED at least three WS / OWs ?

This is why I would have such discussions, holy or secular, in a quieter place. No shunning. No denial of forgiveness.

Just practical marriagebuilding for all faiths.

Do you see this FH ? By preaching regarding A-marriages in this place, however innocently, you provably hurt the vulnerable and aid the wicked ( or misguided) as do aother no doubt well intentioned aiders.

I am not arguing with your theology at this time. That the venue is clearly anti-marrigebuilding is my immediate worry.

* edited in response to your "good luck" post

When I have need of discussing something that may dishearten the mass of MB poster, or have a question that may appear to encourage waywards I take it offline by email, to friends and associates ( as I have with yourself in the past FH) or I study.

I see the prime reason for contributing to the MB boards as being marrigebuilding by spreading hope and restored fidelity using Dr. Harleys methods allied with my experiences.

I see no reason to "speak a discouraging word".

I think it is clear that almost any discussion of affair marriges OTHER than their extreme non-viability is discouraging to the righteous and encouraging to waywards.

Resilent:

This is true:



But NOT that big a difference when it becomes time to start excluding people.


Someone else posted this: but I could not find it, so I will again:

FIRST THEY CAME FOR THE COMMUNISTS AND I DID NOT SPEAK OUT BECAUSE I WAS NOT A COMMUNIST

THEN THEY CAME FOR THE TRADE UNIONS AND I DID NOT SPEAK OUT BECAUSE I WAS NOT A TRADE UNIONIST

THEN THEY CAME FOR THE JEWS AND I DID NOT SPEAK OUT BECAUSE I WAS NOT A JEW

THEN THEY CAME FOR ME AND THERE WAS NO ONE LEFT TO SPEAK OUT FOR ME

~ Pastor Niemoeller

Within our own little community here, I think that folks are speaking out on both sides, and for good and fair reasons.

But threads die here because the poster never returns, or the community does not feel like helping that poster.

But to pre-empt a poster and exclude them is scary to me.

Ignore it, and it dies. There is a reason why there are over 49,000 threads in this forum alone.

So, with this, I will exit this thread. So that it may die, along with the ZOG thread.

If the MODS decide to follow up on BP's Poll and start a new forum, so be it.

LG

oh brother. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" /> Affair marriages are now being compared to REAL VICTIMS such as the Jews in the holocaust. Now I have heard everything. Good grief...

Aphrodite

A good point !

Most A-marriage folks say contrite words while staying in their a-marriages. Some folks would say that its OK if the A-marriges are many years old, some would say its OK if either or both the a-spouses have become Christian ssince their A-marriage and still others think if the original BS' have moved on and don;t care anymore its OK. And then there are folks who do not think Amarriages are EVER legitimate.

My point is not that this forum takes an "official" stance on the legitimacy of an A-marriage, just that to discuss them in GQ2 demonstrably encourages waywards and OPS ( who want nothing more than a legitimate A-marriage with their OP) and disheartens BS and FWS who are trying the hard hards of recovery.

I would have the points you raise made and discussed somewhere quieter on MB than GQ2 so that interested parties could help m learn and contribute without inadvertently encouraging wayward thinking.

Unfortunately ANY apparrent legitimisation of an A marriage gives solace to the wayward mind, it seems, they don;t get to read the small print regarding the differentiating attributes you state in your post.

Thanks for this view ! Interesting indeed.

LG

But threads die here because the poster never returns, or the community does not feel like helping that poster.

With hundreds of posters joining these boards each week, and thousands of posts each day, I guess even YOU apply some selection critera to whom you help else you'd have whole lot more than 1100 posts. Care to share YOUR triage algorithm with us ?

But to pre-empt a poster and exclude them is scary to me.

So what would you do to prevent the PROVEN encouragement of waywards that occurs when A-marriages are supported on GQ2 ?

I've seen lost of venom from you towards me and others, little in the way of ideas.

Or would you have marriagebuilders disheartened and waywards encouraged by continuing to support A-marriages on GQ2 ?

Bob ~ how do we see the results of the poll?

Good lord. I guess it was bound to happen once ones position becomes desperate. Now the AFFAIR MARRIAGE couples are VICTIMS and being compared to Holocaust survivors.

Amazing, and yet sadly predictable considering the source.

Time to send him back out to the field. The horses need the company.

I think you have to vote then you can see the results MF

Being an avid equestrian, please don't inflict that on them. They are innocent.

you're right...okay...I will spare the horses.

I apologize for my comment above. It was disrespectful and uncalled for. <thanks inner voice>

Sincerely,
Jo

Oh don't be ridiculous Resilient. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

No one said anything about being complacent.

Intolerant and abusive of others with differing opinions, yes, that has happened. Sometimes justified and sometimes just a given poster's Taker run amok.

Thanks, b0b. I didn't realize this affected only one board and not the entire forum. (Or it it one forum on the entire board? Don't know if I have my terminology straight.)

Golfer, your analogy to race is bad but did you mean to say that one's past (much like one's race) can't be changed and that once the damage is done it only makes sense to focus on the present and future? It is true that there is no time machine or rewind button, unfortunately <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Aphrodite

There are MANY wildly differing "rooms" in Dr Harley's house that offer community help in MANY different areas of life and relationships !

"General Questions 2" has become the "de facto" affairs help town square. Its where folks are most likely to get quickest help, though it may be less thoughful and prolonged than in other places.

Other boards have less, more specialised traffic.

I propose to have A-marriges worked out in one of those quieter, more specialized places so that any folks hitting the "town square" might not be given a non marrigebuilding message inadvertently.

Other folks, as you can see by the poll results, have different opinions.

Does support hurt vulnerable readers? yes 79%

Does support encourage WS and OPs? yes 68%

If support:

1. On GQII just like any other 17%
2. With a thread warning: 13%
3. Somewhere else on MB 31%
4. Not at all: 38%

I do see a bit of conflict in that 62% believe in some sort of help, yet 70-80% see that help as hurting or encouraging. Interesting...

APH - Recovery is historically where you see the longer, more reflective help sessions. I hung out there exclusively for a very long time because frankly, I was taken aback by some of the more, uh, angry threads that always seem to have their day on GQII. Of late I do not see the level of postings on recovery that was there a short year or so ago.

Larry

So what would be the 'received' position on a poster who is advised and helped for a good long time, before it slowly dawns on that poster that theirs is an affair-marriage?

Not all people are aware of what an EA is; nor how damaging it is to existing marriages to breach non-sexual boundaries. It's only after a while here that they grasp the nature of what they did.

I'm thinking specifically of Alphin, who was devastated when she grew to feel that hers counted as an AM. (She hadn't been quite married to her BF, but had cheated on him with his best friend, and dumped him pretty callously). She didn't hang round long after that.

There must be many more cases here who don't own up quite so openly as Alphin. Presumably we have innocently helped to recover a fair few AMs? How many are we aiding and abetting right now?


TA