What is the best way to respond to this gas lighting? I have a few people that do this regularly and it drives me crazy! One friend in particular does it often. She sees herself as a deeply caring person who would NEVER hurt anyone but she can really toss your feelings to the wind and then give you a compassionate expression or hug. It's maddening.

How do you respond when someone makes a very hurtful statement and if you express your hurt they simply say things like, "You misunderstood me" or "You're being too sensitive" or "I would NEVER say anything to hurt anyone"? What do you do or say when someone makes CLEARLY hurtful statements or digs at you and then YOU are some overly reactive person for being surprised or hurt by this?

FWH will do it too. He will say or do something hurtful and then BLAME ME for being hurt by it. Implying that I have some major human deficiency for feeling upset.

I was wondering what some practical responses would be to this type of behavior....

Uh, buy the book? See my post - I am clueless at this point in time until I learn more.

Larry

Yes, Larry you are correct, I am being gassed! I think about 12 of the 15 happe to me. I just thought I was being self less, not controlled. Let us all know as you find out more.

So let me ge this stright, your wife is doing this to you?

How are you handling it?

I think MC is the only way out of this one. The only problem is that H will think that I am controlling him vi MC if the counselor asked him to make change.

Any thoughts on next steps in this situation, I mean before you read the book?

You can try this:

"It does not matter to me what your intention is. I am telling you that your words/actions DID hurt me and I would like you to respect that. I understand that your words/actions did not hurt YOU, but I am telling you that they DID hurt me.

"Whether you think they should have hurt me or not is completely irrelevant. If you drive your car over my foot and I tell you it hurts, your saying you didn't mean to drive over my foot does NOT make it hurt any less."

Look them in the eye when you say this and then WALK AWAY. The walking away is very important. Do NOT stand there and wait for them to agree with you, or sympathize with you, or apologize, or do anything at all. Just walk away and leave them standing there holding the P/A-Gaslighting bag.

This will not reach all of these people but it does reach some. It's the best defense I have come across. If anyone else has a better one (aside from leaving permanently, of course) then please post it here.
Mulan

Larry, and others, The Gaslight Effect is available for very good prices on Half.com. There used to be a brand new, hardcover copy available there for $6.99, but I got that one! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

There are still some available at that site for less than half the suggested retail price.

Thank you Mulan, I will give those a try. I actually did basically respond to that extremely insensitive remark with such shock that I took a small step back. I normally am very good at keeping composure in most circumstances and will admit to being a bit of a conflict avoider sometimes. But this time I told her I could't believe she would say something like that. She said she didn't mean anything by it and it was just the way I took it. I said something like, "no one would take it any other way and I will never forget it". Her response was that I was too sensative. Several times after that she has brought up other topics and often says, "now don't get upset like you did that one time". It's rather absurd, really.

It wouldn't bug me so much except that she sees herself as an incredibly compassionate person.

Oh well, I will keep working on this.

I guess I better go buy the book!

That too is gaslighting, SOT. It's often called "patronizing," but it's the same critter in a different skin. The implication is that you're unable to control yourself (you're crazy) and therefore she is warning you in advance.

Yes, you are right, maddening isn't it? I'm not crazy or overly sensitive, she's just rude. Since I am noticing this more and more in conversations with several people, I am ordering the book! I need ammunition. LOL

ML,


I didn't refer to you by name in anyway. I owned this was my issue, my figuring out what was and was not gaslighting.

In the quote above, you restate your perception as fact. Also, you made the statement that "a sane person"...which includes me and every other human on the planet...and above you say it's not even directed at me.

I'm not an interspecies specimen. I promise. I realize this is the internet and there is a remote possiblity I'm an orangataun.

I wasn't calling you anything, ML.



Rolleyes...that emoticon. Interesting. Discounting. You repeat yourself in this post twice over...and now I'm not so unclear anymore.

See...when you said this before...that it's me taking this and it's not about me...this blanket statement...then I doubt myself. Do the "am I being over-sensitive here?" stuff and am I in touch with reality?

Here you do it twice...a blanket statement intended solely for a poster and their current predicament. Not about anyone else.


ML...do you know what gaslighting statements are? Can you explain to me if what you said is gaslighting or not in this post you just made? You told me that I was accusing you of being a gaslighter. I didn't. I wasn't. I don't. I am asking if this sense of unreality I got from what I posted on this thread, from you (now that you've named yourself and owned your posts and the thread), along with the pain, is an internal signal of what this thread is about.

Gaslighting.

Manipulation. When you tell someone what they are doing, and they aren't. When you tell me I can't make my case...when I made my case by simply speaking my perception and beliefs. Saying if I have an issue with your points...and I did in regards to my experience of being in an abusive marriage for 15 years...and sharing how your statement sounded to me, my perception...and I came to this thread mistakenly thinking others could instruct me whether your telling me what I'm doing or not doing, that I'm irrelevant, and now, that what I did was backhanded and cowardly (I understand this is your opinion of my action...not what I did...what you think I did)...and telling me I am making a point?

I sincerely want to study and understand this. I encountered this on JustJilly Begin Again thread, as well. I was reeling from these very similar statements.

Is that me, from my FOO? Hearing you say trigger stuff, like "a sane person would" which I heard a lot growing up, including using this statement interchangeably with "a decent citizen would" in regards to segregation, classes of human beings and it's okay to be bigoted as long as you were right.

I got blanket statements in response to direct, individual questions...was really confusing for me. Now, I realize I have this trigger...it's mine. It is very difficult for me to discern which is which...what is your intent.

So last night I studied up on gaslighting, doing the search on the net as Longhorn and Larry did...and came up with some really great stuff. I didn't sleep (not because of this issue), so after I make up my sleep deficit tonight, I'll be making a thread to share what I learned.

*****************EDIT**************
The focus was on realizing what is manipulative (which gaslighting is an act of manipulation) and how to recognize it.

I also found where gaslighting in affairs was the most common occurrence...and am grateful for reading those links, searching out others, because I think I can better spot the process in WS's. Maybe.


Orchid,

I believe you are correct how not to be gaslighted if firmly within our own responsibility...of knowing ourselves.

When we are told "You are accusing" and we didn't, we need to stand firm and KNOW we didn't accuse...we asked. Wasn't covert aggression which my post came from. It was an honest desire to check myself by asking my fellow MB'rs for use of their eyes and ears.

See? I did it again. I repeated myself, as if someone just isn't hearing me in the way I want to be heard. No wonder I repeat ad nauseum! I fall for the "she just didn't understand my motivation, my intent" which is garbage, really, isn't it?

So, Orchid...help me to understand how to stand my ground. I know I answered her questions...have now called her on what I see her doing...not telling her what's she is doing...and am clear.

I did not accuse. I did not label. I was not making a point. I was not being subversive or attacking. I wasn't addressing a person...because these type of statements are in my real life, and I am sure I do this, and have no desire to do this anymore...under my own radar or not...and there are people on this board, different ones, different times...I was asking for clarification.


Longhorn,

I, too, have gone into the authoratitive voice..."this is THE truth" quite often when I reach for impact...which isn't within my reach. LOL. I am aware of this right now...which is why I'm sorting through this...it is simple and nowhere easy for me.

I deeply believe that everything is from, to and through God, to his glory. What I've been wrestling with for over a month, now, is becoming clearer (in the last 24 hours) and I believe, will aid my marriage, and others' when I'm brave (and clear enough) to share. I don't think the cure for gaslighting is about stopping someone from doing it...not within our control...it's about knowing what it is, the shape, texture and choices...and knowing ourselves, as Orchid said. So what we're being told we said or did, and we know we didn't, doesn't swirl us. We stand clear, stand up and get the reality of it with both hands...and let go the outcome.

Whaddya think?

LA

I think you've got it nailed, LA. As I said on another thread, I think once you know how to recognize gaslighting, it loses it's power. Also, the answers, the counter statements, to its attempted use come from within. I have a boundary...I will not be gaslighted.

It was apparent it was directed AT ME. You took my comments and asked others to scrutinize them for possible signs of "gaslighting." To deny it would classify YOU as the "gaslighter," LA.



Exactly, I was talking to onlyucan. However, if you or anyone else chooses to remain in a abusive relationship, then of course that description would include you. A "gaslighter" DENIES they made an accusation; I not only ADMIT IT, I emphatically ADMIT IT! If the shoe fits, that statement would certainly apply to you. If the shoe fits, wear it. No denial.

So yes, if you are in an abusive relationship and doing nothing to remove yourself from said abuse, I would call you "insane." Feel better? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

You won't get any "gaslighting" from me, LA, that is for wimps. You will get BLOW TORCH from me. That is my STYLE. I deny nothing because I want full credit for all of my statements. I don't use subtleties or sneakiness. Hope that clears dat up. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />


I would suggest you remove my quotes from your little "study," LA. Don't take my quotes to other threads for scrutiny of "gaslighting." If you want to call me a "gaslighter," have the courage to do it directly.

I won't comment on the rest of your post because it is too convoluted to decipher.

To define & identify gaslighting is great. To explain, discuss and understand is beneficial for all. To use your own examples is acceptable.

But to quote and call out other MB members as an example is NOT!!

Thanks for the guidance, Justuss.

I won't quote in my examples for researching. I would like you to not I did not call out any MB members at all. The poster in question followed me to this thread and claimed her statements. I did not. Nor did I intend to at all.

If I go back and edit, now, after the poster has claimed to be quoted, by summarizing in a general manner, would that be violating TOS?

LA

LA, *I* knew whose quotes they were; that is all that matters. [even though it was a current discussion on page 1, so it was obvious who they belonged to] I didn't appreciate it one bit and would appreciate it if you would remove my quotes you took from another thread.

Hang in there LA, I understood exactly what you meant when you gave that other excellent advice, and I think the original poster did too.

Maybe you have to have been insane in an abusive marriage to understand, LOL - (JOKING HERE).

Must be contagious? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

ML,

While I'm waiting for a reply from Justuss for clarification, I'm not understanding on this thread, two of your statements:

"You will get BLOW TORCH from me. That is my STYLE. I deny nothing because I want full credit for all of my statements. I don't use subtleties or sneakiness. Hope that clears dat up."

and

"LA, *I* knew whose quotes they were; that is all that matters. [even though it was a current discussion on page 1, so it was obvious who they belonged to] I didn't appreciate it one bit and would appreciate it if you would remove my quotes you took from another thread."

Also, when MEDC quoted me from another thread on JJBA (or BobPure, when he did it), am I to understand that I could have requested him to edit his post, as well, to remove it?

I'm checking myself for defensiveness right now. I am not arguing with you...I want to be clear. I haven't had any interaction with edits or Justuss during my time on MB. I don't want to violate any TOS.

LA

LA, please remove my quotes as Justuss requested. Thanks.

Serious side effect of gaslighting: burnt sphincter. Usually follows drunken frat parties.

Not pretty! Do not try this at home! You have been warned!


<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> Could resist, but decided not to... sorry!