Hi all, Ace suggested I repost this here.

Okay, for those who don't know...my husband is in another state on a contract job and I decided my confessions will have to wait until we're together again (July).

We were emailing each other about plans for a possible worst-case scenario should he not find a job by July. He brought up me and the kids staying with my parents for a few months. I wrote back that that would only be acceptable if he were living nearby because 1- I would need someone to help keep me sane (because of my parents) and 2- my
ex-boyfriend lives just 2 hours away from there.

I told him if he (my husband) was nearby it'd be fine but we've been apart for way too long and it's just not a good combination, especially considering my age (mid-30s).

Then I talked to him on the phone, but he had not yet read the email. We went over the same territory except that I couldn't tell him what I wrote above - I just said there was an additional reason why I didn't want to stay at my parents without him nearby and it was in the email.

I checked my email this morning. No response yet, but I don't know if that's because he hasn't read it yet or because he HAS read it. He doesn't like to talk about things when he's upset. He usually needs time to calm down first, which drives me crazy because I tend to stew over stuff and I have the patience of a fruit fly. And sometimes when something upsets him he simply never talks about it and bans it from conversation.

So I'm sitting here nervous about his reaction and afraid he won't react at all, and this is nothing compared to what I have to tell him later. Which may not be the whole thing if he indicates that he doesn't want to hear it. He's the best judge of what he can handle.

I'm also wondering how long I should wait for a response before realizing that he's not taking this well at all. And what do I do? Ask him about it? Let it drop? Sigh.

Aph,

I appreciate your brief question, but I think the main reason I suggested you post on GQII is because of your unusual circumstances.

Mrs. W and TJ3 and other WS posted to your original thread when you were asking if it was possible to have recovery without discovery of your multiple betrayals.....was it better to just NOT tell him since he most likely will not take it too well?

Anyhow, here's the post that I mentioned: Aph's reply to Mrs. W.

After much discussion, you seemed to have decided you'll tell him one honest thing (BF proximity) but you may (or may not) have jumped the gun and now you're anxious because you are not able to see him to know his reaction in person.

Wish I knew what to tell you myself, but I'll learn right along with you.

Ace

Ace:After much discussion, you seemed to have decided you'll tell him one honest thing (BF proximity) but you may (or may not) have jumped the gun and now you're anxious because you are not able to see him to know his reaction in person.

Yeah, that's about it. Though he's an EX-bf from before the marriage. So it's really not very much at all compared to everything he still doesn't know.

>Wish I knew what to tell you myself, but I'll learn right along with you.

That's alright. I appreciate the thought.

The truth is always the solution to adultery. Always.

Here is what Dr. Willard Harley says about honesty:
1. Honesty

The first extraordinary precaution to avoid your lover is to tell your husband all about your affair, and the decision you have made to restore your love for him. Then promise to keep telling him the truth about every aspect of your life, so you never again have a secret second life where you are tempted to hurt him behind his back.

Honesty and openness is one of the best ways to prevent yourself from being inconsiderate of your husband's feelings. It was your friend's threat to reveal all to your husband that motivated you to separate from your lover. Your friend wanted to shed to light of day on the things you were doing in secret to protect your husband. But you should do it yourself. Go right to your husband with the facts. If you had been honest about your budding relationship with your lover from the beginning, it would never have developed into an affair.

"You may be afraid that once your husband knows the facts about your ongoing affair, he will leave you. Quite frankly, I think he has the right to make that decision. If, faced with the facts he decides to divorce you, you lose your option to restore your relationship with your him. But you simply cannot build a relationship on lies and deception. Dishonesty will never get you to your goal of loving your husband again. So it's better to get all of the cards out on the table now and build your marriage the right way, even if there is a chance that your husband will throw in the towel before you have a chance to reconcile.

Another reason you may be reluctant to tell your husband the truth is that he might have a violent reaction to what you have done. If you are afraid of his reaction, separate from him first, and then tell him the truth in a public place or with friends who can protect you. If your husband cannot control his temper once he knows the facts, then I see no hope of saving your marriage. Honesty is so important in marriage that if the threat of violence prevents honesty, I don't believe you will ever have a good marriage. "

From:

Four Rules to Guide
Marital Recovery After an Affair
http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5065_qa.html

Coping with Infidelity: Part 2
How Should Affairs End?

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html

From my perspective, honesty is part of the solution to infidelity, and so I'll take honesty for whatever reason, even if it's to relieve a feeling of guilt and depression. The revelation of an affair is very hard on an unsuspecting spouse, of course, but at the same time, it's the first step toward marital reconciliation.

Most unfaithful spouses know that their affair is one of the most heartless acts they could ever inflict on their spouse. So one of their reasons to be dishonest is to protect their spouse from emotional pain. "Why add insult to injury," they reason. "What I did was wrong, but why put my spouse through needless pain by revealing this thoughtless act?" As is the case with bank robbers and murderers, unfaithful spouses don't think they will ever be discovered, and so they don't expect their unfaithfulness to hurt their spouse.

But I am one of the very few that advocate the revelation of affairs at all costs, even when the wayward spouse has no feelings of guilt or depression to overcome. I believe that honesty is so essential to the success of marriage, that hiding past infidelity makes a marriage dishonest, preventing emotional closeness and intimacy.

It isn't honesty that causes the pain, it's the affair. Honesty is simply revealing truth to the victim. Those who advocate dishonesty regarding infidelity assume that the truth will cause such irreparable harm, that it's in the best interest of a victimized spouse to go through life with the illusion of fidelity.

It's patronizing to think that a spouse cannot bear to hear the truth. Anyone who assumes that their spouse cannot handle truth is being incredibly disrespectful, manipulative and in the final analysis, dangerous. How little you must think of your spouse when you try to protect him or her from the truth.

It's not only patronizing, but it's also false to assume that your spouse cannot bear to hear the truth. Illusions do not make us happy, they cause us to wander through life, bumping into barriers that are invisible to us because of the illusion that is created. Truth, on the other hand, reveals those barriers, and sheds light on them so that we can see well enough to overcome them. The unsuspecting spouse of an unfaithful husband or wife wonders why their marriage is not more fulfilling and more intimate.

Knowledge of an affair would make it clear why all efforts have failed.

After revealing an affair, your spouse will no longer trust you. But lack of trust does not ruin a marriage, it's the lack of care and protection that ruins marriages. Your spouse should not trust you, and the sooner your spouse realizes it, the better.

Well, he already knows you sent an email, and he knows that he needs to check it, right?

If that is the case, you can pretty much assume (I think) that he has read it by now.

Please stop the Conflict-Avoidance and just come right out and a.) ask him if he's read the email yet, and if so, go ahead and start discussing with him; b.) if he has NOT read it yet, ask him to please read it ASAP because you would like to discuss with him.

Stop worrying about HIS reaction to the information (this information, as well as the future information you are going to give him regarding your affairs).

You are giving the information because you need to clear YOUR conscience; because it is the right and moral thing to do; and because you know that being completely and totally OPEN and HONEST, by using Radical Honesty, is the only way to give your M a chance at recovery.

It is also the only *fair* thing to do ~ give your H the right the make a decision on whether or not he wants to stay in the M. YOU have made decisions regarding HIS marriage, without his input. It's time to right that wrong, Aph.

We can start prepping you for possible reactions from him if you want. Let us know when you are ready for that.

**ETA: Mel posted some really great info. We were posting at the same time so I didn't see it before I posted. Really good stuff there. **

APH:

I read some, but not all of your other thread in Recovery.

Don't worry about your H reading your email.

Because there is so much unsaid in that email, that I can see the conflict in his face, even from here.

You have had multiple affairs, one night stands and long running EA's.

ANd you have tremendous difficulty discussing with your H anything that could be hurtful.

So, don't worry about the email.

Worry about what you are going to do next.

There is a huge gulf between you and your H and it will never close without you becoming honest with him on many levels.

Start writing the letter where you detail all of your A partners, both PA and EA. When they started, what you did, and how you continued them.

All the details. Times, places, where the kids were, you were, he was, and how long. Who paid, who rode in what car, and then anything else you would like to add.

Why?

Because once your H starts asking you questions, and really starts to dig, he will ask you for more info, and everytime you come up with a different answer, more details, or differences to what happened, his recovery will start over from scratch.

ANd the Gulf will narrow. Slowy, but surely. IF YOU are honest and forthright.

YOU may decide that you do not want to be married to him anymore. That's your choice.

His too. But now, he will have all the information that he needs to determine what the status of his M really is.

And his choices then just might surprise you.

But it starts with honesty.

Really.

LG

Melody,
I agree with you, but the physical distance apart makes things more complicated. It seems cruel to leave him worrying about what I'm doing when he's not there when right now he has to concentrate on finding a job. When we can talk face to face, I'll tell him. Thanks.


MF,
That's what I'd like to do, but I'm worried he'll think I'm nagging him into talking about something he'd rather not talk about. But I guess I won't know that until I ask him about it. If he does not reply tonight, I will call him. Thanks.

lousygolfer,
The letter sounds like a good idea. Thanks. But what is the difference between an EA and a friendship? I think I need to be clear on that before I write this.

GOOD <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

First off HOW is the email the truth? Until there is real truth from you there isn't much to work on with your M. Vague hints aren't truths.....there is a BF close by **hint hint** not good with my age **hint hint** If you want to actually be truthful then do it...and do it in person not in an email or on the phone. No way to get help or anything unless your being honest with YOURSELF first.

Atruheart

Atruheart,

Part of the reason I said something now is that I want to avoid situations in which "will power" is required since I obviously don't have any. I'm hoping he finds another job soon so we can all be together.


Also see my response to MelodyLane.

UPDATE!

My, that was a short phone call. Yes, he read the email. Yes, he is upset. No, he doesn't want to talk about it because he says, "I don't need this kind of upset in my life right now." And I got the sense that he thinks as long as he finds a job by July there is nothing to talk about anyway.

I should be happy that it didn't turn into a long, ugly argument but I'm not. I feel terrible.

Aph - you did a good thing. This will work out for you. When you do confess he will see your genuine attempt to protect yuour new boundaries.

You're not in this alone, Aph. Many posters here have experienced your anxieties, pushed through them, come clean and felt the freedom from living on a false foundation. It's like a fresh start is on your horizon.

You have a few weeks before you have to implement your plan so let us (or at least the vets on this board) help you organize your strategy.

Like Big K said, you have made a good start. It will not be easy but the payoff will be huge. We're here for you, those to post advice and others like me to encourage you.

Like the old adage says, "When the going gets tough, the tough get going." <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" /> In the few weeks you've been on MB, you have shown how tough you are, Aph. Go for it.

Ace

Thanks bigk and Ace,

But what has me confused is that he's told me on other occasions in other contexts that honesty is important to him, but the message I got on the phone tonight was "I'd rather not know." Not in those exact words, of course, but that's the vibe I got. Maybe it's just because he's in crisis mode over this job search, but I worry about his ability to handle the whole truth when he just walls up at the slightest hint that something is wrong.

I'm not saying I've changed my mind. It's just that his way of reacting to this, although not surprising, is difficult for me to get my head around. It's so different from what I would do. I mean suppose when I start to tell him the whole truth he says I don't want to hear any more and pretends I never said anything? I know him and I could SO picture him doing that at least until he finally blows up at me.

So what other parts of the strategy do I need besides the letter? Which, btw, I fear will look more like a book <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Aph,

What do you think your H fears?

Does he fear not being able to provide for his family?
Does he fear that you don't respect him?
Does he fear failing his kids?
Does he fear losing you?
Does he fear he is not good enough?
Does he fear...?

You need to think about this very carefully. He seems to be a conflict avoider. Not unusual really many people are. But they avoid conflict because they fear something. What are his fears? I am certain they are more and deeper than you realize.

My reason for asking? If you understand his fears, and then you spend sometime understanding his desires, you will be able to present and talk with him about all of this much easier, with more clarity, and with more compassion. That will help you in your stated goal of keeping your marriage together, and making it better.

Your H doesn't know it but his worst fears have already occured, or almost his worst fears anyway. He doesn't understand the problems in the marriage but he knows they are there. He doesn't know if you will dump him for someone else but you have already considered that.

All of these things he may fear have already happened he just doesn't know. He needs to know whether he wants to know or not. Because if he doesn't know he has no clue how to be the husband you want. He doesn't have any idea that he is viewed by a variety of men and you (he will think this whether it is true or not) as somewhat a sap. ONce he knows you put him on an even playing field with the other OM. Whether he wants to play on that field is not relevant, he has to be on it, and he has to play this out to its end.

You telling him the truth puts him on the same playing field and if he tells you he wishes you hadn't told him you look him in the eye and tell him he needed to be on the playing field so that all of this can be addressed. Otherwise, HIS IGNORANCE condemns him to not knowing what you and others know.

Please think about this.

God Bless,

JL

Aph,

You asked:


As I understand it, a friendship becomes an EA when:

1) It is a secret involving components you can't/won't tell your husband.

2) You question whether or not any aspect of the R is inappropriate. (Your conscience usually does not lie.)

(I'm sure there are other conditions, but those are the two I can think of now.)

During our 32 year detached marriage, my husband often told me and others around me that he thought I was boring, but others (including men) told me I was very intriguing and an interesting conversationalist. I told H about all my interactions with various men-friends, including how I vented about my frustrations with our M, but H was glad they talked with me so he didn't have to. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

You say your wanderings will create a book full of confessions. Maybe you should catagorize each into chapters: EA, ONS, PA, EA/PA, and others.

It may sound daunting, but look at it this way. Overcoming your challenges by confessing all will give you a clean slate as well as provide a huge opportunity for you to empathize with others you might be able to help in the future who have a similar or even worse scenario than yours.

(I'm making a meager attempt to be positive, Aph. Don't want to minimize how much courage you will be demonstrating when you follow through.)

The more thorough and honest, the better. Like Just Learning said, your H deserves to know where he stands so he can make an honest choice.

Ace

Thanks JL and sorry about before.

I think he has all those fears plus fears about sexual performance, being stuck married to a crazy person (who fights too much or too hard), the typical paternity fear guys have and fear of being viewed by others as a "cuckhold."

Ace, LOL! I think I'll go with chronological order. And thanks.

Hi Aph,

I am a FWW who's H is a self-proclaimed conflict avoider and didn't want to know every detail of my A (like OM's name, which he still doesn't know.) There were many things he did want to know, however... some that really surprised me.

I think the distance between you and your H is a problem. He can put this out of his mind (so to speak) because he's living this other life right now. You need to be together if this is going to work. You need to talk face to face. Don't tell him anything else unless it's in person... no more email or phone.

Also, be very honest and open with your H... if you are truly remorseful, show it. This will help him feel safe, and begin M and soul-saving conversations.

I haven't had a chance to read your other thread yet... are you in IC right now?

KM

Aph,

The sad reality is that he was a cuckold. And one of his biggest fears has come true. Do you have a plan to address this? You cannot undo what you did, but what are your plans for the future? There is a lot of rebuilding to do. Hence my question about his fears.

Consider them carefully and make plans to talk/address by action these fears. How to do it best? Actually, here is where you need a list of his strengths. You use his strengths to help overcome the pain of seeing his fears come true.

AND yet again, here is where YOU need to know why you want to remain married to him. You see the things you see as positives in him and why you want to remain married to him are also avenues to address what he is going to deal with when he learns the truth.

I don't recall right now if you are in counseling, but if you are this would be an excellent topic for discussion. Not whether to tell or not, but how to deal with what you KNOW is going to happen to him. You need a plan and it starts with knowing your motivations to remain in the marriage, his strengths and his fears.

Please consider this.

God Bless,

JL