HCA- I feel my situation is somewhat similar. H had an EA starting January 2006 (exposed and broken up several times), turned into a PA-May 2006, exposed on June 25, 2006, and back to an EA until ? . OW worked with him and moved away in July 2006, but they continued contact on and off. I asked him to move out in Early December so that we could both figure out what we wanted-he was still talking to her. He appeared devastated, but instead of working on himself, he started talking to her more, met her over new years (PA) and saw her again in February 2007. After that, H said he wanted to come back and work on the marriage and that he knew things wouldn't work with OW. I thought it was soon, but allowed him to move back at the end of March, he bought a Harley, and is doing almost nothing to work on the marriage. He had promised he would work on us, himself, etc., but backed out of a marriage weekend and tells me I'm pushing him. I have heard many of the things you hear. I went to his office the other day and he was angry because he said I was "snooping" around. I have told him he can leave and pursue his dreams anytime, but he says he won't leave again-I have to leave. Everyone in the family knows and he was mad about that. I wanted to contact "their" employer,but it would have had financial effects on us. I also wanted to contact her now XH (they were separated at the time) because 1) she had received extra monetary funds during the separation because HE had an affair(pot calling the kettle black), and 2) she was entertaining my H in front of her son (age 13). As the other parent, I would have liked to have known.
Anyway, secrecy still is there and so I suspect so is the relationship. He is not emotionally/physically intimate with me, nor does he show any desire.
I will continue to read this post.

BS-45
WS-46
d-day: January 2006
and times in between

shaddup, Larry! **snort** <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Well my H is heading back to work. He works in the opposite direction of the OW and when he calls uses the phone from work so I know where he is. I told him before he left that he needs to decide if he wants to be single and have his privacy or if he wants to have an open and honest relationship which would include a plan for NC. It feels like we are always switching who has the power. Now I feel a bit more powerful and he is being more accommodating. I said I can't keep living this way and if he needs to hide things from me I assume he is still in contact with her. I told him we can't move forward until there is no contact at all and that if he can't live with that we don't have a chance. So it's in his hands but I know that I'll need to be firm when he comes back home. I told him I'm not telling him what to do with his phone but he has to do something. Get rid of it, change the number, give me the password, change it to a billed contract, something. Before he comes back. So we'll see. He's already calling me more but I want more than that. I was commitment and actions, not talk.

Exactly, then demand and expect it. NC is a boundary and O&H Relationship is a boundary. He knows it and now its up to him to ACT not talk.

Good, you are taking the power you need to take to have a healthy relationship and protect yourself from harm.

Larry

He is actually not normally a selfish person although over the years we have grown to have our own private lives which is probably what led to this whole situation. He makes his own plans, has his own money and does his own thing. We do a lot of family activities together but have only just started spending more time together alone. I know that part of our recovery will be enforcing the POJA and melding our lives more.

I was referring to confronting the OW. I have already spoken to his mom. We have a good relationship but she lives so far away that we are not that close. She does not interfere in our lives in any way so it would not be her personality to call and tell me about my husbands affair. She would tell me the truth if I call her though and she did.

Well I thought I would give an update. My WH went to work for the week and I told him that I wanted him to do something about his cell phone because I know she can contact him on it. I didn't call him, which is very unusual for me, but he did call me. I was polite but not mushy or demanding. He texted me all the way home and I probably did nag him about the phone then. I mentioned it once the Sunday he was home but didn't really nag him but on Monday I told him before I went to work that I thought maybe we should separate before we started hating each other. I told him I don't feel like he's considering my feelings and I'm always nagging him. He started texting me at work and I was cool with him. He said he was sorry about the fight and I asked is he was sorry enough to make changes. In the end he said he was going to cancel the phone. He got a new one that has a contract (not pay as you go like the other one), and I have complete access to it. He did say that he was tired of me asking if he had her from heard and that now that he did what I want I will only find something else to nag about.
I really feel that he is still in withdrawel and can be very grouchy or moody and then he'll apologize later. Is this normal? I'm just not feeling very much love from him right now. It has only been 3 weeks since they ended it and I believe they have had NC. I'm still worried that he will find another way to contact her though. I'm trying not to mention her and just work on Plan A again. It's hard not to be hurt when he is so cool sometimes. I feel like he should be trying to make things up to me but he's not.

HCA,

Please listen to MelodyLane as this is excellent advice. I could have broadly written your story as mine, felt strange to read it! It just goes to show you that the A experience really does follow a script. I didn't find MB until after d-day #2 Here is what I would do differently and advise you to follow MB:

1.) Expose to OW's work - I didn't but I believe it would have been a powerful tool in ending the A.

2.) Stop contacting OW, your starting to obsess (I know bc I did this).

3.) Focus on you, instead of what is the WH doing or not doing, what can you do, not only for the M but more importantly for yourself!

4.) Talk to your DD, she either suspects or knows the truth and it only hurts her to not bring it up. Just listen to her at this point.

5.) Your WH is cake-eating, at least in his mind. He isn't trying bc he is two entrenched in the fantasy. This went on with my WH for a long time bc I didn't have clear boundaries of what I needed to stay in the M.

5.) Your WH may be a passive-agressive, there is a thread in recovery you might want to read to see if you see any similarities.

6.) Stand up for what you want and need, don't avoid conflict hoping it gets better, it never does on it's own.

7.) Insist on MC as part of the condition of you trying to recover the M.

You are doing very well right now. I definitely had PTSD, I am still digging my way out of this mess emotionally. Most of what we suggest is hard, no doubt about it. The alternative is much, much worse IMHO.

Take care and hang in there.

nab

Thanks for responding nab. I told my daughter this weekend and she is still very upset. She's also angry with my WH's sister because they are close friends and she didn't tell her. She can be more vocal than my son so I'm pretty sure we may be in for some confrontation. My WH is angry I told her.
I'm still waffling on letting the OW's boss. I asked a friend who it would be. I though of emailing her and telling her if there is anymore contact I will be filing an ethics complaint with her boss but thought threatening might not be the best course of action.
He has resisted MC so far but I want to see if he'll go to a MB weekend but I don't know how hard to push it. When I say what I need he says I'm being controlling again. I pushed to change the phone number and he said now that he's done that I'll just find the next thing to nag about. I can't win.

We went for a walk last night and I didn't say too much. He said it felt like he was walking with a stranger. I was just feeling like everything I say he feels is nagging. I asked him how his meeting went and he said oh did I have a meeting? oh yeah. I told him after that it felt like he was making fun of me being suspicious about where he is all the time. I was trying to show interest in his day. If I say anything about him being home now, he will say oh am I back home? It's like he doesn't want me to be too sure of myself and our future. Then he turns around and calls his cousin in Florida to say we'll come out at Christmas. I don't get it. He doesn't want to talk about the OW or the A at all although once in a while he will bring it up and then if I ask questions he shuts it down. I know it has only been a few weeks but he seems depressed and says if I nag too much he will leave.

Are you sure he canceled the old phone? Where is it?

Thanks PM...that was my question. Did he hand it to you to destroy, or did he simply TELL you that he 'got rid of it'?

I went in with him to cancel the other phone number. I have phoned it and it says its disconnected. When he went to work he changed the number because his new one is long distance but he gave me the password. When he came home he left it on the counter (which he never did before), and I checked it. He has been using his new one and left the old one at home on the counter. Am I being naive? Should I throw it out?

I thought we had a good talk last night. He admitted to a gift I suspected he had given to her but wouldn't admit to before. I told him when I want access to his phone, I'm protecting our marriage. He keeps saying it wasn't an affair, he was already going to leave me when he met her. Today he texted me at work to say we had to talk tonight. When I asked what about, he said about me still always talking about her. I told him I need to fill in the blanks and if he just answers honestly we can work on what we need to fix in our marriage. When I suggested marriage counselling, he flat out said no. I'm not positive he's not in contact with her just because he is still saying he's confused. I was reading about how the WS needs to hit rock bottom before they come to their senses. Should I tell him to leave until he is ready to work on this marriage and go to Plan B or do I just keep being patient and working on Plan A and meeting his needs? Its hard when he's not trying very hard and making me feel like he doesn't want to be at home. Sometimes he is caring and the next he is mean and hurtful. What do I do?

Have you read Joseph's letter? I would print it and show it to him. For a good recovery, you need to feel that your questions have been answered. I suggest you take your time, and do not concede to shutting up and moving on with your hubby.

While the affair shouldn't be hanging over his head for life, he also needs to step up and help with recovery. I tend to think like atruheart, that the OW broke up with him.

Ask him again in a week -
if you get the "NO" answer

ask him this:

"When you say "no", are you aware that I am in a lot of pain and anguish and that I need the counseling to help me recover?"

get him to commit to a yes or no( he is either aware or unaware ) - whichever it is, he needs to say it out loud

then you tell him "I am going to counseling by myself in that case."

and do NOT bring it up again

call for counseling AND (very important) call a family law attorney and set up an appointment to see about formal legal separation

if he's going to remain half-assed married, you better know what your choices are

and do NOT ask/tell about the attorney visit

it is NOT a threat in any way-shape-form

it is a tactical decision of yours to self-protect (just in case)

and

at the same time

you make certain you can survive financially

ask the attorney the best way to do this

ask under what circumstances you are liable for H's debts

another way to approach H about counseling

"Under what circumstances would you consider counseling?"

I have not seen many (any?) successful recoveries that totally skipped some amount of marriage recovery counseling