I know many people have expressed some of these thoughts individually, but I’m wondering where there is the most overlapping of thought in our forum of individuals. If I’ve missed some views or expressed them badly…..I apologize ahead of time. I don’t want to be redundant, so I’m trying to represent the whole range of thought on the subject of affair marriages to see what areas we have most in common.

Please check all boxes that express your views: multiple choice
	I am a Christian, and I believe God offers redemption for all sinners, including affair partners who repent and agree to sin no more.
	2. I am a Christian and I see no redemption for affair partners while they remain married.
	3. Once affair partners, always affair partners. They cannot “sin no more” unless they divorce and go back to their first spouses or marry someone besides the OP. Nothing can ever make such a marriage legitimate.
	4. An affair is an affair. A marriage is a marriage. I may not like or support how a marriage began and it may not meet my personal standards, but I accept the reality that these two things are separate and that even affair marriages are recognized by l
	5. There are some conditions that would have to be met (remorse, compensation for exes, children, certain time span, ex-spouses also remarried etc etc) before I would even consider speaking to someone in such a marriage.
	6. I will fight infidelity on every front, and ending the cycle means attacking it where ever it lives…even affair marriages.
	7. I look at each case individually. I see some hope and redemption for some of the people who have made past mistakes and genuinely want to rectify and change this situation. I recognize the selfishness and stupidity of youth, and if people can demonst
	8. I think there is a difference between helping someone to understand why affair marriages fail and how to end the cycle of affairs without “supporting” an affair marriage.
	9. These people are the scum of the earth, and are responsible for so much pain. I can’t understand why anyone would talk to them, and anyone who does, has lost my respect.
	10. I hold no animosity, they just don’t belong here.
	11. Anyone stupid enough to come to an infidelity site, deserves anything they get. If people shun, insult, humiliate these people, maybe they’ll leave sooner. The end justifies the means.
	12. I hope these people get help. I want them to, because they sure need it. But there are no circumstances that should allow them to get help here on GQ.
	13. I may have some compassion for these people, but my first responsibility is to protect the vulnerable betrayed spouses who are suffering or triggered by these posts.
	14. I don’t want them here, but I am bothered by the personal attacks on people. I don’t like bullying at all, especially not our own members.
	15. I am in so much pain, that their presence is intolerable to me. I don’t care what it takes to make them leave.
	16. I am in so much pain, that their presence is intolerable to me, but despite the inhumanity of their actions, I still prefer that they are discouraged from posting in a more positive way.
	17. I am no longer triggered by these marriages, but I worry about the vulnerable BSs who are.
	18. When an affair marriage is failing, it validates the things we teach here and it is an opportunity for those involved in affair marriages, as well as our members, to see the whole “affair” picture.
	19. Since reading and posting are choices, those who are hurt/triggered, can refrain from those threads, and those who can help should be allowed to help unmolested.
	20. I don’t support affairs. I might be willing to talk to these people about the legacy/tragedy of affairs and how to build a more ethical future, but if I do, I open myself to personal attacks from other members.
	21. I am disgusted with the board wars over these kinds of issues; I wish we could come up with a more permanent solution that showed compassion for all concerned. It’s sad to see this happen over and over.
	22. I think it’s unethical to expect people to talk to the same people who may have destroyed some of the marriages being helped on this site.
	23. I am a guest of Dr. Harley’s. I’ll leave it up to him to decide who can post questions and I’ll respond to whomever I want to.
	24. I will discourage, in any way I deem necessary (including personal attacks on the integrity of all involved), anyone in an affair marriage from posting on GQ, as well as anyone who posts TO them.
	25. MB has always been like this. It’s open to everyone. If you don’t like it, leave.
	26. People in affair marriages should be excluded from MB.
	27. People in affair marriages should be discouraged from posting on MB.
	28. People in affair marriages should be excluded from GQ
	29. People in affair marriages should have their own board on MB or post on quieter boards.
	30. GQII is “main street” MB, and only spouses who met while they weren’t married or engaged to someone else, should be allowed to post here.
	31. I recognize the need for better guidelines on this subject. I would support an open dialog with the administrators to explore solutions.
	32. None of my views are expressed here.
Votes accepted starting: 05/29/07 07:49 AM You must vote before you can view the results of this poll.

#21 and #31

Your agenda. Won't work. These boards are perfect just the way they are. A "dialogue" to make them better??? No way, Justuss is doing justfine. A "dialogue" of ONE is much better than any "standards" committee, especially one proclaiming or considering itself the silent compassionate majority.

Also, you've got way too many qualifiers to really make this poll worthwhile..."I am in so much pain" . The only pain I've got is this backache I've had all weekend, maybe that means I can pick that answer. "As a Christian" to possible make this a religious issue inappropriate to openly debate on this non-secular board.

How about adding this choice: "I think Starfish purposefully sent Zog from the Emotional Needs Board to the General Questions Board knowing EXACTLY what would happen to poor old Dog (er, Zog)...to the detriment of Zog...in an effort to further her agenda/prove her point?????

Mr. Wondering

P.S. - I personally will either abstain from voting or vote "none of my views are expressed here" later today just so I can see how this contrived and ackward poll actually pans out. I mean I can choose SO MANY of them, like #14...which just about everyone who doesn't want them here (was that 70% in the other poll) would agree, I dislike the compassionate, sympathizers, empathizers bullying that's been going on here for a long time. The word police claiming words hurt more than actions. #18 too, I'd check that too if they actually came here to warn other WS's and NOT to repair and restore their divorce forthcoming adulterous marriages. Number 29 should be split, I don't want them on their own board. The defects are just too glaring. Statistics lie and liars use statistics. Can you say "Demographic dillution"????

Again, things are working PERFECTLY around here. I guess that's my other view.

Thanks for your thoughts Mr. Wondering. I have become immune to the ad hominem attacks, but I appreciate your time nonetheless.

Star,

I think you took quotes and condensed a bit...am I correct?

Thank you for your time, labor and attention to detail. Wow.

LA

LA,

Yes, I tried very hard to represent/condense/balance the wide range of the views that I've seen discussed on this issue. I apologize if anyone feels they are not represented or not fairly represented.

Thanks

I'm glad you did this, Star...

Helps me understand better..cause you expressed my viewpoints succinctly in your poll...

I wholeheartedly agree with #1.

My thing is, isn't the handling of this up to the Harleys?

Didn't Justuss convey their point of view?

So isn't the case closed and then we move on?



<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

For my post to be an "ad hominem" attack there needs to be a message/argument for me to be avoiding by going after the messenger.

Is this a poll or an argument disguised as a poll.

Did you just tip your hand????? I told you there was an agenda.


I'm sorry if I triggered you. I did not mean to "ad hominen" attack you. Nice poll. It's pretty.

Mr. Wondering

I too believe #1 to be accurate.... but sin no more for me means that they cannot have married....since SF used the term "affair partners who repent and agree to sin no more" I will take that to mean FWS like any FWS here that has seen the truth regarding their ways and turned FROM it. So, therefore, I agree with #3 also.

As I mentioned on the other thread, the purpose of this board is discussion. I understand the dynamics that make discussions (help) almost impossible for affair marraiges on this board. There have been a number of "little groups" who have had similar experiences on this board - where their discussions are continuously derailed by talking about whether or not <whatever> should be talked about - rather than the question/problem/situation the original poster is trying to find help on.

Not all threadjacking is bad. But, some of it is truly disruptive.

I'm in favor of a solution (possibly a different forum) for people to go where they are allowed to continue their discussions without interruptions about whether or not <whatever> should be discussed. (Or, about the character of the people who are in the discussion, as so often seems to occur.)

My favorite choice was the discussion/clarification/negotiation with the moderators and admins of this board.

Mys

well said and great suggestions.

Mr. Wondering,

An argument exists, but I'm not making it. I posted a poll...you presented an argument for why that poll is useless. The part of your argument that attacks me personally, is what I consider "ad hominem". I think if you can make your point without insults directed at me....your argument would probably be stronger, but that's obviously just my opinion.

There is a wide range of views to choose from, so this poll is certainly not representive of only one person or one "agenda".

---------------------

mimi....I don't know if the adminstrators will consider a change in policy or not. I don't know if a logical appeal will work better than alot of emotional discussions and arguments on the board....but it might.

Emotional Needs does not have the same level of experience nor the same level of traffic to deal with infidelity effectively. The standard response on EN is to send anyone dealing with infidelity to GQ.

My not-so-sarcastic-as-yours-attempt-to-besmirch-someone assessment of her actions was that Starfish thought MFZ would get more experienced assistance on GQ, but that it would probably come with a high price.

So, are you not so subtly trying to insinuate that Starfish has plotted and implemented an agenda to get AMs approved on GQ in order to manipulate GQ and sacrifice MFZ on the altar of her world domination of Marriage Builders, specifically GQ?

Wow, who knew what evil lurked under that reasonable personna Star's exhibited all this time?

After reading Starfish's postings for years, I find your insinuations of tricky ulterior motives twisted.

I think this is true. Star even warned MFZ that he would encounter difficulties on this board because of the origins of his marriage. I don't think, however, there was much of a way to prepare anyone for the amount of discord surrounding this topic. This topic is much larger than MFZ and jj and any other poster. It is a board war - most of the angst was never about him.

Mr. Wondering, a cogent argument can certainly be made that affairs are best addressed on this board rather than the EN's board. Star's previous posts indicate that she attempts to help people or direct people to the best place to get help. She has directed many people who have shown up on EN's to this board if they are in the midst of infidelity. Occam's razor states: "All things being equal, the simplest solution tends to be the best one."

All things being equal, the simplest projection of Star's intention (or "agenda") is to assume that she directed MFZ here because his marriage is experiencing infidelity - as she has many others.

Mys

When someone in an AFFAIR MARRIAGE is getting help on the Emotional Needs forum, what is the better option? single choice

Keep them on the EN board, knowing that GQII is not a likely place they will be welcomed with open arms. (75%, 12 Votes)

Send them over to GQII knowing the likely firestorm it will cause, and then complain that throwing Affair Marriages to the "lions den" .... "Hey, they are being eaten up by those bad lions!" (25%, 4 Votes)

Total Votes: 16 Voting on this poll ends: 06/02/07 10:12 AM

graplin an Mys,

Thank you. I have already posted that I regret sending Zog here (on one of the other threads), and I do. EN has few experienced posters on the subject of affairs, but even if he had stayed there....there is a good chance he would have been discovered and the arguments would have simply commenced later. I'm not sure the history of his marriage would have remained a secret for long. In spite of that, I am sincerely sorry that this has caused such anxiety and disruption and I am honestly looking for a clear and compassionate way to deal with this issue when it arises again. And it will arise again unless there is a policy change.

I think you nailed it...grapeape.

Actually, I don't think her agenda was to get AM approved on GQ II. I can only guess at her agenda...but I'm guessing it's #21 and number #31 above and has been all along.

Why isn't there a choice "I think MB is perfect the way it is"??? Because it doesn't further the agenda. The questions LEAD to the conclusions that a "dialogue needs to be undertaken to fix this place"...to make it nicer.

Further...she is using a "trick" to further her ulteriour motives. It's plain as day. It's all a neat little statistician's trick called "demographic dilution". Because we can ALL check as many box's as we want no particular answer result will have any significance other than to say...this should be taken up with administration and discussed how it can be fixed because the board is all over the place and confused. We are a melting pot of different levels of "compassion" and the uncompassionate need to be moderated. We need some direction on this.

Heartpain seems to agree with me and we're on opposite sides of the debate it seems. This place doesn't need fixing. I'm prepared to help Zog and all the afffair marriages that arrive. I have given Zog a tremendous amount of my time and energy.

Mr. W

I believe #25 comes close to that.




Mys

Pep,

If no policy change is possible, I think that in the future my choice would still be to tell anyone with infidelity issues that the information they need is on GQ....however, if their marriage began as an affair, they might want to simply READ rather than post and explain why.

"AFFAIR MARRIAGE ADULTERY"

a redundant description, like saying the same thing twice

example:

"untrue lie"

[color:"red"] for heavan's sake ... these couples need a PROFESSIONAL therapy referral !!!!!!

NOT to be forwarded to a "lion's den" of a forum filled with hurting victims of adultery.... why is that unclear? [/color]

[b] [color:"purple"]CALL THE HARLEYS CALL THE HARLEYS CALL THE HARLEYS [/color]

In my profession

I HONOR MY LIMITS

and even when someone expresses a strong desire to seek MY professional opinion when it is clearly out of my range .... I tell them

I care enough about you to want you to have THE BEST help possible ... and right now, for this problem, that person is not me. I am referring you to (specialist). You can contact me after you've been seen, and we can take it from there.