I work in Exchange Quay from time to time, overlooking the rednose ground.

If you fancy a pint and talking bollocks one day let me know.

Better reasons for folks to meet for sure, but ah well.

You're doing OK , our kid.

Bob,
I'm only allowed to go there once a year, on derby day; I've been told I'll spontaneously combust if I go more than that (my allegiances have a blueish tinge - only righteous seeing as I'm 'local' & not from Croydon). I need no reason whatsoever for a pint & talking bollocks, never have really; I guess it's a gift. pm me next time you're 'Up North'.

On a more serious note: I forgot to mention that F?WW asked me if I thought I'd experienced emotional abuse during our marriage. I said no as I don't feel I have; but that is subjective, depending on one's definition of emotional abuse (some would argue that I have). Is this Q WS babble ?? Is she trying to mend things, suggest that she's been subjected to emotional abuse (which I don't doubt she has) or something else?? If this is an olive branch, I don't want to miss it (I'm not blessed with perception).

Thanks again.

b.p.m.

BM,

Your F?WW is babbling... I think she's thinking about things, but she's still nuts. Rejoice in a tiny victory that she's feeling some empathy, but don't let your guard down just yet. God Bless.

KM

KM thanks, having someone else hold up a mirror to my experiences helps. Empathy is the one thing she states NOT to have: ambivalence is her word of the moment; I can't offer an opinion on what is true for her right now.

I'm not dropping my guard just yet, but on hearing you say that I know where my plan B starts; not on love-exhaustion or LB'ing, but on running out of oomph to power my guard. When I discovered the A it was like an atomic bomb had gone off in the heart centre of my soul, laying waste to most of what I was; I'm still here & fighting but I know I can't go through that again. Whilst I can sustain my guard I'll know I'll be OK, & when I can't it's plan B time.

b.p.m.

((((BPM))))

Yeah, you've been emotionally abused. Enduring an affair is the worst emotional abuse that one spouse can inflict on another.

I'm afraid that in my case it wasn't that simple. I am guessing I was at NC plus one year and I had had enough. I absolutely wanted out at that point. If you have ever read my posts you may have seen where I talked about 20-20 hindsight. The truth is that I looked back and decided that I wish I had never let WW come back home after I sent her packing to OM that night long ago. Everything would have been so much simpler and cleaner. But after a year of NC, I couldn't just say my WW wasn't putting out any effort. Then I began this internal argument about wanting out but not wanting to be the bad guy for the DDs.

Then I guess I went through about two months actually wishing WW would have an A. I don't believe that I adopted any behaviors to try to push her that direction but I SOOOOO wanted to. Another A or rekindled A with OM was exactly what I dreamed of. A new A would give me everything I wanted. Or so I thought.

I also said a long time ago that the BS has to change aafter Dday in order to survive an A. This is somewhat obvious. Prior to Dday we tell ourselves that we would never stay with an adulterous spouse. Yet here we are so we have obviously changed that stance. But the change doesn't stop there. Many of the changes are more subtle as they progress. So now I find myself over the past few months changing more. It doesn't matter whether WW loves me or not. I have been the one preventing me from loving her. I have been the lone obstacle.

I'm at the point where I could divorce and put my M behind me in a heartbeat without a tear. I doubt my WW will have another A but I don't care either. If she does, I am crystal clear on what I will do. So I no longer worry about that. I told Todd the other day that I am equally happy with the thought of coming home from work and spending the evening with my family or coming home and finding WW's bags packed and sitting by the front door. I am completely at peace with that idea. I can't really explain why but then I don't really try either.

I am not "in love" with my wife. I don't know if I will ever have the love for her I once did. Doesn't matter. What I am doing is I am allowing her to make me happy. Although we don't discuss it, I believe she senses some change in me and feels less fear of making a wrong step. If my WW were cold and indifferent to me, I would be divorced now. She isn't. I think she is trying in her way. I have also gotten to the point where I honestly believe that I will probably never mention the A again. There just isn't any benefit.

I'm also buying a Honda Fireblade today and that may be impacting my level of happiness at the moment so take all this with a grain of salt.

So if WW had been indifferent, I guess I had a 12 month plan. But once she started changing and my anger began to subside, I think I could have reached age of majority for the DDs (i.e. 12 more years) in a "pleasant" marriage. But at the moment we are now planning our retirement together. We BS's are just strange creatures. What helped me more than anything was the Tatertot thread. I really needed that at exactly that time. I hate to sound too dramatic but it may have saved my marriage. It's just nice to know you aren't alone sometimes. Other than that I can't say that thread did any more for me than force some self-reflection. But maybe that is what I needed. Don't know. If I did know, I would write books and make a web site.

edited to add....

I wanted to say that I began this process angry that WW didn't love me, angry that she had the A, etc. But today, at this moment, I can say that I honestly don't care if WW ever loves me again or not. For all I know she does. I'm certainly not saying she doesn't. I don't know one way or the other. But what is important is that regardless of whether WW loves me or not, the only thing that I care about is whether or not I love her. If she chooses not to love me, that's her cross to bear. I would hate to be in her shoes and had to suffer a loveless marriage. It would be a living he11. I won't accept that for my life. Her choices are hers and simply not my problem any more.

I also wanted to add that many of you might think there are downsides to riding a Fireblade with its black leather seat when it is 114F outside. What I have found is that seems to cauterize the HPV sores right good. I now wish I would have done it sooner.

Pio,
It was only a few weeks after d-day when I stumbled across 20-20 hindsight in your thread; I read it at the time when the F?WW was being a proper A-1, from top to toe, biatch (she has confessed since that at the time she was _miserable_ & wanted me to be too). I was ruing my decision not to hoof her [censored] out the door at the start & divorce her there & then, my decree nisi would've been dropping thru the letterbox any day back then; somedays I still feel the same, but less often recently. Pragmatically, if staying with her is a mistake then it's easy to remedy, much easier than lamenting over a rushed divorce.

I don't understand how you can feel the same about spending the evening with your family & watching your FWW walk out the door but then again you've got about 10,000 more flying hours at this than me - I can't expect to. I do get how your FWW maybe not loving you is not your problem tho', I never really thought about it until you stated that.

So what sort of a happiness coefficient does a Fireblade have?? I used to have bikes but I fell off them too often for my liking. Black leather seats in 114F heat ain't so bad <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" /> I once did 60mi (at speed) in a hail storm - when I got to my destination I'd acquired about 20kg of compacted hail between my legs; I still feel cold to this day. What are HPV sores??


Jim,
If there's any emotional abuse worse than this I'd hate to encounter it (or even imagine it).


KM,
Thanks for the hugs - you have the honour of being the first person to (((()))) me, ever. I'm new to this t'internet thing, it was always the wife who went on the www (it's where she met OM in fact). After a couple of weeks of floundering post d-day I thought I'd give it a try - it worked for her OK after all (sic.) - & eventually landed here.

I don't feel like I'm exaggerating when I say that this place saved my life, or rather the people who inhabit it did. ((((everyone here)))) - that's my first (((()))).


Generally things are good: F?WW playfully manhandled me out of her way this morning saying "you're in my way"; previously she would have stood & stared at me until I meandered off her path, or yelled. Barely significant to most, but not to me (although I'm not breaking out the champagne yet). The WS babble filter is beginning to work now & my LD powers are growing - the value of these tools cannot be underestimated; they make mine & F?WW lives a lot easier (ta Bob).

b.p.m.

Hi bullet,

Just dropping in to see how you are doing.

Regards
Chris

Hi Chris,

I'm doing very well. Me & the Mrs. seem to be ambling along alright.

She told me that she wished we'd separated after D-Day; to save ourselves from the damage we've caused each other in the last 5 months. I'm not sure what she meant by this: what hurt most was when she continued to see OM after I found out - that's when I really took a beating (still I enabled her doing this so I'm 50% responsible for some of it). I'm sure I'll find out what I did to hurt her in good time. She also said that I've hurt her as much as she's hurt me, I replied ,truthfully, "I really, really hope not"; I have no measure of her pain, I just know that mine was immeasurable. I didn't pursue any of this as the WS babble filter kicked in.

She also said that if the M had been like our R is now, then we probably wouldn't have the marital problems we're experiencing now (he shoots ... he scores !!!). I resisted punching the air. I also got a big hug & kiss in bed yesterday morning, I don't remember that last unsolicited display of affection she gave me; I could have held her all day (& would have if the kids could wash, dress & feed themselves, not fight with each other, etc.)

I've also been away to Buddhist retreat at the weekend - very relaxing with lots of self reflection. I now know that I have good qualities (modesty prevents me from listing them, time also <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />) & bad qualities (gaslighting, passive/agressive behaviours, etc.). All the bad stuff is learnt (or maladapted) so I'm getting myself some IC to fix these.The theme of the meditation was "If there's a remedy, why get angry? If there isn't, what is the use of getting angry?" from the writings of some Buddhist master from long ago whose name I forget. I think it's beginning to have an effect on me (ohhhmmmmmmmmmm). Chilled-ville here I come.


Pio, I now fully understand this (& feel the same). It was a bit of a BAM!!! moment, unlike the rest of this journey which has been more akin to emotional accretion. Very liberating & probably the reason for the lapse in my controlling nature. I shall now make time to read your thread (even your higher philosophical considerations on golf carts).

I've been a bit melancholic of late; mostly due to a rumour that Graeme Souness was going to become Man City's next manager (non-followers of the English Premiership will have to forgive me). It's not true (hopefully). This has lifted & I'm back to knowing that I'll be OK & it is still a beautiful world.

Later.

b.p.m.

P.S. Chris, how do I change the name of a thread ??

Go to the first post and click edit and change the title.

You can also change as you go along. Once you click continue after writing the post it shows you what you have written and you can change it there. That will only change the title from that point of the thread but the main title will remain the same.



I always wondered where you were from and I glad to hear your a true football fan and a true Manchurian and not a Sadchester United glory hunting fan from Bromley. I'm a Geordie but I live in the south and do I take some stick for my troubles.

Thanks for your advice on my thread.

HAF: the circus that is Man City is bringing me down but ( as with all BlueMooners) the harder it gets, the more I love them. I'm looking forward to the Championship.
I'm guessing you're a smog monster & you've moved to York: am I close ???

Back to business. This is a strange time: I'm sensing more affection from F?WW but I don't understand the motive(s); is it love & compassion that's driving it, or remorse from what's happened, or what's about to happen, etc. Any insight here is more than welcome.

She's still foggy much of the time. By her reckoning it's been 4.5 months of NC, but that is unconfirmed.

Now: I'm less interested in a future with F?WW; I still love her madly (& always will) but I'm starting to think that the effort required to attain a barely adequate M with F?WW would get me a fantastic M with somebody else. Is this an expected BS phase ?? Or an epiphany ??

I found out today that my job (& career progression as I planned it) is secure, despite my ineffectiveness at work over the last 6 months (my boss is an FBS & has been a pillar of strength during this). Maybe this has some bearing on my current feeling.

It's too early to call my M but I know I'm going to be fine & so are my kids.

b.p.m.

No hurry to make any decisions. Most BS's go through a sort of "buyer's remorse" when the spouse comes back.

But it actually doesn't matter a bit why she came back, or why she is being affectionate, just that she is. That gives you more time to work on making a better marriage. She should join in at some point, but it is often a painfully long time.

I promise you that you will never regret trying.

Sorry I don't know your whole sitch but I can comment on this. It is no epiphany although it feels like it. What it is is that you are falling out of love with your F?WW. She worked herself out of the M and she is apparently doing little to work herself back in. No BS can go on forever. At some point, WW has to make a decision. Unfortunately if she waits too long, you may no longer be interested.

Not everyone is the same. Plan A takes different forms for different people. I was probably too supportive of my WW early on. It was only when she realized that I had stopped caring that I saw a real change in her.

So whatever you are feeling now, I am certain it is very positive for you and might actually give that epiphany you mentioned to WW such that it might be good for the M as well.

I still love my WW and always will but I could divorce her in a heartbeat with cause. I'm not sure if that is unfortunate or not. That is what is strange. Me no longer caring may be the best thing that could have happened. I know for a fact that our M will never be like it was. It may be better. It certainly will be different.

That part about spending that level of energy on a WW who you may not spend the rest of your life with and who has already created many hurdles as compared to a fresh start - yep - I've spent a lot of time there. I do the math. If we do recover, I will have spent 10% of my life with a tarnished M. I will likely spend 33% of my marriage in diminished capacity. Life is too short. Could I spend the next two years on a gamble that might go south at any time or spend that two years regaining myself so that I might find a new relationship without all this baggage?

I'm guessing your FWW doesn't have time on her side. And time is the worst enemy to your M right now.

(my boss is an FBS & has been a pillar of strength during this)

[noddy]Oroight, donk ?[/noddy]

This was my sitch EXACTLY. My boss at the time was a ferocious tiny french lady who had also been a BS. She was incredibly supportive.

BTW if you're like me and many other BS, work will nver be that important to you ever again.

Going through this mess is something of a brutal reprioritiser of life activities.......

I'm not in any hurry to make a decision - I'm in it for the long game. I believe that if I give 100% to something & it turns to the brown stuff then I've no regrets; I cannot claim to have given 100% to the M, but I am to saving it.

I still do not know the cause of her increased affection. It might be the accumulative effect of plan A, me telling her that 'she wasn't all that' or my dignity compromise (cheers Bob, I borrowed some of your words although they do describe how I feel).

Last night she thanked me for making her end the A (I didn't make her per se, I stated my boundaries), saying that I'd saved her from an unhealthy & damaging relationship. I have no idea how she came to the conclusion that the relationship with OM would be unhealthy, I'm assuming that OM has recently been causing trouble for her but she's staying quiet about it all.

Timing is the key as you say Pio, she's got to buy in to the M before I check out. I'm hoping it's not another BAM!!! moment for me, I'd at least like some notice of the changes in me.

LMAO <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> Maybe I should be using some [noel gallagher]Mad for it[/noel gallagher] HTML <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
You're right. Work doesn't mean as much to me now, but I'm pleased to not get the sack nevertheless.

Thanks again peoples.

b.p.m

bpm

I can't recall reading much about OM in your sit.

How much do you know about him and is there anybody on his side you've exposed to ?

Nothing like dodgning righteously chucked crockery to make an OM reconsider contact. I know that fra fact.


Happy fathers day, kiddo.

I've not really mentioned OM here, only that he exists. F?WW insisted on protecting his privacy & only told me his first name & the town where he lived; neither was correct. I parked my intel gathering escapades soon after NC-day. I didn't expose to anyone in the end; asked her to stop the A & had decided on a 3 day wait until I exposed - she stopped it the next day; the withdrawal appreared real enough so exposure could be seen as a bit malicious. I had my list & script prepared; & I had a giant cartload of the brown stuff in low orbit ready to land on him (it's still there). I keep on meaning to gather together my posts under my various pseudonyms & fill in the holes. One day I shall.

It's a long time since I read your thread, wasn't OM some sort of ninja??


Happy Father's Day to you too, hope yours was as good as mine; I got Islay malt.

Altogether now...
Mama ...

t's a long time since I read your thread, wasn't OM some sort of ninja??

Ex-european karate champ. Still a 5h dan instructor.

It was his missus that hurled all their BHS classic bone ivory at him not me.

I did "demonstrate my opinion of him" sometime later, but I won't go into details here <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Exposing isn't malicious, dude, its marriage protection. Feels all wrong, but it's right.

Find out all you can about him so you can push the button when you need to.

I saw slade a dozen times. Loved 'em.

I got a car book, a bob marley CD and socks. And dinner at Frankie & Benies with my kids.

Riches, mate...great riches....