I have suspected that my husband has had something to do with another woman for a while. We just went out of town and visited my parents for the first time and one night at bed time he decided he wanted to go for a walk and did. I just checked his phone records and found that he called her.

He has come home smelling of her perfume a couple of times and my car smelled of it once. When I brought it up he said that he gave her a hug good bye one night and that he gave her a ride home another. He always has some excuse.
Recently he said that she wants to work on her marriage (they have been having problems, we know them both)

Last night we had one of those non-conversations where everything was 'implied' and much said. It began by my saying that he is secretive, he of course said that he wasn't. I made some comment that if someone compromised a marriage once they would do it again, he said that if a 'smart' person realized that they dodged the bullet once they would not repeat it and did not need to say anthing so they didn't 'rock the boat' and since it wasn't going to happen again it didn't need to be addressed, it was past.

Her number is on is cell records from last night! I tried to call her but for some reason that number is not 'in service' ??? Perhaps that was a blessing in disguise as I went off 'half-cocked'. I was going to ask her what she was doing with my husband and perhaps if she spent as much time talking to her husband as she does mine we would both have happier marriages.

What on earth should I do? I love my husband, obviously since I haven't thrown him out. But I keep feeling so 'played'. He is very good to me, loving, sweet etc. But really walks the line with inappropriate friendships. I can't seem to get him to see how dangerous this is.

Me 48
Him 45
Married almose 3 years
Together 5
Known for 11

First, I think you need to calm yourself, lady. Going off half-cocked isn't going to do anything for your relationship. As you suspect, your marriage is very probably in deep trouble but exploding isn't going to solve the difficulties.

Were I you, I'd invest in a book named Not "Just Friends" by Shirley P. Glass, Ph.D. I suspect it's right on target with what you're facing. Read it to get yourself grounded in what is happening and use your knowledge to fight what I'm sure is coming at you. While you're at it, you need to order Surviving An Affair by Dr. Willard Harley.

I can't make heads or tails out of that "implied" conversation. Seems he's done this before? Lady, let us know more. If he's now into his second (or subsequent) Emotional Affair (EA), it's significant and folks here will need that info to better advise you. If he's done this before, looks to me like you let him talk you into just sweeping it under the rug. Very dangerous, if correct. It means the marriage has never healed and is doubly vulnerable.

Do you two have any children?

If you know that other couple, you should consider contacting the Other Woman's Husband (OWH) and letting him know his wife is contacting your husband and you fear they are sliding down into an EA. It's part of Dr. Harley's program anyway.

Longhorn, Thank you for your quick reply. Yup! I need to calm down. That sounds like something I would say! Hmm, take my advice....I'm not using it....

Oh good grief, I'm so scared I'm silly! I'll get the books right away. I just tried to get him to look at the chapeter in His Needs Her Needs about how dangerous 'friendships' are and he just rolled his eyes.

He acts so loving and normal! But there is this niggling little something that keeps me off balance. Ok more info. I have a son from a previous marriage, age 13, incredible kid! They have a healthy dad/son relationship.

I suspect that he has done this before. Of course it's always just friends, (can't imagine where I've heard that before!) We both participate in a sport, skating, where everyone knows everyone. Most everyone has known each other for many years, that's how I met him! I have friends that are men and he has friends that are women. I have some serious solid boundaries for my friendships, no sex talk, if I wouldn't do/say it in front of my husband I won't do it at all. Never alone with a man, ever, not under any circumstances. He doesn't have the same boundaries. Thinks I'm being suspicious and paranoid etc.

He caught me snooping a couple of times (I'm so not good at this!) and I looked very silly and he was very righteous. As far as contacting her husband....I've thought of that. But he is such a DOG that it probably wouldn't make much difference. He moved out, then back in and who knows what's going on now. But he is openly cheating on her so if I said something to him he would be more likely to go to my husband (the whole guys stick together thing) or hit on me, which I defiantaly don't need now.

Is there a way to explain to him how damaging this is? I know he loves me, he tells me all the time, snuggles me up to sleep every night, when we watch a movie we curl up together and he tells me how much he loves that time together.

It just seems he can't get enough attenditon from other women. He is very handsome and gregarious so I've been as understanding as I can...but this time I keep tripping ove these red flags....

We are about to go on a skating trip. Usually a bunch of us go and trail each other in our cars. I'm the organized one so I book a block of rooms and whoever is going calls me to get one. She called me a few weeks ago late in the evening while he was out skating and I was in the shower. I heard the phone ring but didn't answer it. When I got out of the shower I called my H thinking it was him because no one else would call me at that time of night. He said no, it was her, she wanted one of the rooms because she planned to go out of town with everyone, I asked why she wasn't going with her H and my H said that he has 'made other plans', the guy is a jerk. So anyway (this little novella will be over soon!) I listened to her message, she had gone on a trip with us last year, she and I even went shopping on that trip, I've always felt kind of funny around her, like something isn't right. Long story short. I never called her back. He never asked me about it. Normally, if I didn't call someone back he would ask me why. That silence is heavy. In between that call and now, he has said that she is commited to working on her marriage and he has become very nice to me.

Does any of this make sense? I emailed a mutual friend of ours who may be dating this womans H and asked her to call me regarding the situation.

Well, gather all the information you can, regardless of the source. I hate it that OWH might be committing adultery himself. That marriage is in severe trouble.

I'm a little (not much, but some) cheered that you aren't certain he's gotten into an inappropriate relationship before. Serial cheating sets up almost insurmountable barriers to true reconciliation.

Generally speaking, you can trust your instincts in these matters. Almost invariably, it turns out a person is picking up signs the conscious mind isn't even aware of. Now that it is in the forefront of your mind, you can be increasingly vigilant.

Your attempts at snooping have put him on guard and if he's engaged too deep, the affair will be going underground. He'll find other ways of communication than he's used so far. Be alert for a marked increase in computer use -- emailing or instant messaging or something like that. BTW, Does he quickly switch computer pages if you walk in unexpectedly?

Evaluate his activities for us. Changes in attitude and behavior are especially huge red flags indicating something is amiss. Is he spending huge amounts of time on the phone with her? Does he take calls from her in front of you and leave the room, secrete himself in the bathroom (for instance), go outside, or whatever? Are there (long or short) calls at odd hours of the night?

Is he frequently unavailable at work to take your calls when he was before? If you drop in on him there, does he react adversely and is that a new reaction? Does he get home from work on time? Does he "go out with the guys" often? Are you being excluded from any part of his life?

These are things I can think of off the top of my head. It's not an all inclusive list so be looking for other indicators.

We need to find out how severe the problem is, lady. When you say he's being attentive and affectionate, I have to wonder. The typical spouse engaged in an affair finds it impossible to be affectionate with the spouse.

BTW, that doesn't mean there isn't a problem. If nothing else, that you two have friends of the opposite sex who are not friends of the marriage means your marriage is vulnerable and you need to address the issues.

LH

ahope, I think at this point after reading your previous posts that you need to operate under the assumption that your H is having an affair. If your radar is up, there IS a reason.

Do you have SAA? Have you been in Plan A?

Thank you so much for your help. I'm normally the capable one! LH I just typed out a response to all of your questions and the computer monster ate it before it posted....so, I will answer in less substantial bites.

I will get busy with collecting info. OWH is definately cheating. She needed a friend and glomed on to my H....he let her. Women talk to him all the time about their man problems, I think this is dangerous turf, he does not.

I will keep an eye out for changes. He even told me that when someone starts changing their routine something is going on. And he has a very set routine.

He can be moody. And when he is moody and I want to talk he just checks out, if I don't leave him alone he leaves till he calms down. He has anger issues and is very careful not to 'lose it' which I appreciate. Doesn't want to work too hard on things that are different, i.e read His Needs Her Needs, work on a goals plan etc. It's fine in a brief conversation but he says he gets bored just talking and talking. I explained that when I was in college I had to take classes I didn't care for but I wound up with a degree so sometimes you have to go through some work to get the prize.

His behaviour changed for a while with this girl thing then settled back down. So my guess would be that either something happened or almost did then he backed off.

He still talks to her on the phone, just not as much as before. I think the marriage is vulnerable however. We need to get on the same page with our boundaries with other people and our goals for the future. How on earth do you do that with someone who is comfortable with the way things are?

As far as plan A goes, I (without being arrogant) am an excellent wife. I take great care of myself, look 30 not 48, cook every thing he likes when he wants it, dress up for him on our family eveings, rarely run around in sweats, when we are out I make a point of being the kind of woman he his proud to be with. His friends always tell him how blessed he is, and he always says he knows it.

So I guess I just watch and wait....?

Guys, how can a wife motivate/inspire you to work on a marriage and set goals for your future togeter?

So I should not call her? She went on a skate trip with us last year and I didn't get any warm and fuzzy feelings about her then. A few weeks ago I was taking a shower and the phone rang, when I got out I called my husband thinking it was he that called because it was so late. He said it was her and she wanted one of the rooms I had booked for an upcoming trip, I asked why she wasn't going with her husband and he said that he had made other plans....I just shut up. She left a message for me to call her about the room but I have not called her and he has not brought it up which says a lot because he would usually.

AF,

You say (not being arrogant), you are an excellent wife. You are concerned about your husband’s attitude towards other women. You are concerned that he might be getting involved with another woman. You would like to motivate him to work on having a better marriage.

You sound like a Stepford wife. I don't say this to be offensive, just to illustrate my viewpoint. Why should your H be motivated to change anything? You make it sound like you are "mildly concerned" about the state of your M. I would suspect that you are hurting very deeply right now. This is not a forum that people stumble upon. I think that you need to sit down and write down your concerns. I think you need to take an honest look at how this makes you feel. I suspect that there is an empty place in your heart, and it is weighing on you heavily. Once you have gathered your thoughts and made some sense out of them, you need to talk to your H. You need to explain how you feel, and you need to tell him that you think that your M is in serious trouble.

I would suspect that this would motivate most men to take you seriously. I would also suggest that you go to individual counseling. It is very helpful to get objective, professional help in sorting out your personal issues.

To keep from losing long posts, compose them in MS Word (or whatever you use). Then copy and paste them into the MB text box. That'll save what you write, even if your computer goes down because the next time you brought up Word, it'll pop up the document you were working on, saved or not.

What Losinit said about seeking out a good counselor is very good advice. I’m a little concerned you might be slipping into a co-dependent relationship and that’s a very dangerous place to be. I don’t know of any threads on MB about that, but I’ll try to find some. You can also Google the term and check yourself to see if it might apply to you. A counselor would be able to help you identify any such problem and also help you sort it out.

Okay, when he’s in one of those moods, I’d back off the serious relationship discussions and wait until he’s worked himself out of the depression. It’s just basic human nature. If you push him to keep going, he’s going to resist, and he’ll resent what you’re doing. That is NOT going to make him receptive to discussing the matter some other time. If you want some serious talk, you’re going to have to set up the time, place, environment and everything else to set yourself up for success in the discussion.

Also…I think you’d be better served if you worked on these matters a little bit at a time. When you see him getting restless, wrap up the “session” and end it on a high note, okay? It’s a positive feedback loop of sorts. If the discussion isn’t painful, and it’s non-accusatory, he won’t dread the next “meeting” nearly so much…and that session will last longer before his ability to absorb is maxed out, etc., etc. See where I’m going with this? Essentially, it’s a recognition that folks’ minds aren’t changed all at once. Life isn’t a computer game and everything takes “forever” to move from Point A to Point B. I always advise baby steps. Push baby too hard and baby falls, right?

Now, regarding calling the suspected OW. I do not normally think confronting an OP serves much purpose. If they were honorable people, they wouldn’t be cozying up to a married person in the first place. The tactic has been successful for some though. I recall hearing about one person’s mother calling the OP and threatening the OP, saying her mafia relatives would be visiting the OP very soon if he didn’t back off. It worked, as I remember when applying MP principles seemed to be having little effect.

Hmmmmm…I’m stalling here while I think. Excuse my meandering all around the subject. Well, here’s what I think. I believe there’s a serious chance your husband might have slipped into an EA with OW, but there’s enough ambiguity to suggest it might not have gone as far as you dread it did. Frankly, if he’s as affectionate as you say he is, I just don’t know what to think. There aren’t any big flags waving at you from his behavior?

Okay, I’ll say I think you might just call this woman to return hers. Don’t do it if you’re stressed about anything else in the world at the moment you pick up the phone though. Calm yourself, dial the number, and introduce yourself. Be honest, keep the conversation on a high plane; don’t call her names or anything like that. I would tell her you are not going to make a reservation for her because, regretfully, you don’t think it’s in the best interests of your marriage for her to be there. Perhaps you can say you know she’s having trouble in her marriage, you even sympathize, but when she started relying on your husband’s strong shoulder, it began causing troubles in your marriage. I’d ask her to please back off, wish her luck, and get off the line. (If you can, record the conversation so no one can come back and make allegations later on???)

Now, that came out as quickly as I could type and I’m not going to edit it. It’s just a suggestion and you need to say and do things the way you naturally would. If you do this, let us know what you got from the conversation…how she sounded…did you get any sense of where she was emotionally, etc.

Keep coming back to talk to us, okay? And use Word to compose. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I just stuck my foot in it big time! I'll try to make this brief.

I didn't post yesterday, I was investigating.

- 576 cell phone calls between July and May!

- He still acts loving etc

- Talked to a mutual friend who says that they have been seen together, she is having DRAMA in her marriage which is almost over. She quoted my H as saying that I'm getting played/used, he has a baby by someone else since we've been married!!!!

- I don't have FACTS except the phone records so I was planning on collecting info and paying attention

- A couple weeks ago she called and left a voice mail because she wanted to join us on a trip (groups of us regularly go on trips, she went last November.) I did not call her back and my H did not say anything about it.

- She called this morning - early - to ask about the trip again.

I"M NOT GOOD AT THIS!!!!! So I asked her what was going on with she and my H, said that if she spent as much time talking to her H as she does to mine then perhaps we would both have better marriages....and a bunch of other stuff....of course she lied like a rug....asked why I hadn't brought this to her before...asked if I wanted her to not be friends with my H and I said "Yes that's what I want."

Oh Crumbs! My H is going to blow a gasket when he hears about this....conversely, this has to stop. It is NOT appropriate for a married man to spend so much time talking to another woman...especially when I want so much to talk with him.

I pointed out to her that if she had good intentions toward my M she would have made an effort to be friends with me...she said I don't skate on the same nights....I said, true, but you are always on the phone with my H and that is not skating time...so you could easily call me and invite me for a coffee to get to know me....the fact that you don't speaks volumes.

We ended it with she agreeing to not be friends with him anymore. However, I think this mess has just begun, not ended. He has a history of being friends with women....when I check into it, what he says is true ( I'm not sure about this one, and he is very good at manipulating the truth)however, I believe this is not appropriate, it takes energy away from the marriage.

Ok. He is going to come home mad as a wet hen because I expect her to call and twist everything that was said, she has already destroyed two other friendships of his by saying crazy things about the people and telling them a different story....

NOW WHAT??? I love my H (and question my sanity!) My DS13 is watching all of this confusion.

HELP?!?!

It's usually a mistake to talk to the OW. She doesn't care about your marriage, and she doesn't care about you. Now she will undoubtedly twist your words and look like the damsel in distress to your husband. You will be the nasty shrew.

But since it's done, I would calmly tell hubby that 576 calls between him and another woman makes you uncomfortable, and you want him to stop talking to her. Then he will tell you that they are just friends, blah, blah, blah, you are controlling, blah, blah, blah. Then you repeat like a broken record that you are not comfortable with 576 calls between them, and maybe it is time for some marriage counseling.

Don't get angry and don't love bust. Be cool and calm.

If he comes home mad about it, perhaps it is because he is being inappropriate and knows it.

There is obviously something going on there. Don't worry too much about him being angry. But, do keep looking for proof.

Where can one find marriage counseling if you can't afford it? And how do you get a H to go? I'm on my way to a sword (Samurai) class, I'll check back later.

Thank you Believer. Everyone please pray hard. Thank you in advance for being here and walking with me through this....I'm Terrified!

Funny thing for someone who has been doing the martial arts for 30+ years to say isn't it...

I am confused - your friend says your husband says you are being played and he has had a child with someone else while you have been married?

That would be with a different ow?

You say he talks to lots of other women? Not good.

I say cut your losses and get out.

I called my Husband at work before I went to class (which I left because I'm too upset) to tell him that she called this morning and we had an unpleasant conversation....he asked why she called then when I told him he said that she had called him and he told her to call me.....the truth does not twist like that... Anyway he and I talked and I told him about the cell records and he blew up and said that I was doing THAT again, he doesn't check up on me, is not disrespecting our home so what he does should not be a problem....I told him that talking to a married or any woman that much, away from me is disrespecting our home.He said he would deal with me when he gets home, he is putting his foot down, this will stop now. I calmly replied, that yes, it would stop. It is inappropriate and I would not tolerate it. Oh this is going to be a rough night! What should I do when he gets home? I feel like a little kid....I have never been so uncertain of myself in my life....I'm scared to death!

You should NOT book a room for the OW. Leave her on her own. How dare she call you to help with the trip knowing she is having at the very least an EA with your H. Even if her H is a jerk, that's her problem NOT yours and NOT your H's. If your H has to ruin his M to 'help' the OW, he isn't a true man. He is a wimpy WS.

Get control of your emotions ASAP. Your martial arts classes are good for your protection but make sure you keep control over them as well.

Read SAA, HNHN (Harley) and Love must be tough (Dobson). If your Ws explodes and accuses you of snooping and being in control, don't deny it. Let him know there is someone close by who has betrayed the family loyalty and you are working on protecting your family. Mention it as a family issue not just your issue.

L.

Use the calm and focus required by martial arts to get through this. Ever do Tai Chi? Deflect his comments by using reverse babble.

Any spouse has every right to be able to have full knowledge of cell phone records, e-mails, conversations of their spouse. He should have no secrets from you.

I remember that feeling of guilt when I looked at my h's e-mail correspondence with an old girlfriend. I should not have felt guilt. He felt a sense of invasion of his privacy at the moment he saw me looking at it, but it only took hours before he realized that he was the one to feel guilt and shame, not me. I was fortunate.

What is he trying to hide from you?

Stand calm, stand firm.
Lake

I am concerned that you say you are scared to death. I remember feeling panic and fear over losing my number 1 status with my husband. I felt like he was replacing part of me and our relationship with the relationship he was establishing with an old girlfriend in secret from me. Is that how you are feeling?

Or are you afraid for your safety?

Good (?) Morning everyone. To answer you first Lake; afraid of...my happy life changing, at home he was wonderful, he even said "I don't disrespect the home so you have nothing to snoop for" I told him that all those calls to another woman is disrespecting the home...anyway.

He was ANGRY when he left work!!! He left me a very nasty voice mail while I was at church which took me a few hours to want to listen to...I'm profoundly disenchanted myself! He told me not to look at him, speak to him, call him, keep my nasty a** away from him he is fingernail away from throwing me off a 13 story building. Ok then. My DS13 and I went home and My H came in, I didn't see him, he went downstairs to take care of the critters. I was just going to go about my business but I doubt I could have slept so we went to my dads and spent the night there. I just got back home and my H is at work. I can't tell if he even spent the night here.

In between the vm he left me and when he came home the OW's soon to be ex met with my H to tell him to keep him out of it. He can't stand her she lies like a rug and is crazy, if you want her you can have her but quit trying to tell me and your wife that all those calls are because she is trying to fix a marriage with me...6 am, midnight, out of town with your wife, that's not trying to fix anything.

So what am I afraid of. I talked to my Sensei, he said to let the police know just to be on the safe side. My neighbors know to keep an eye out too. I don't think he would hurt me, but I also know that people are capable of strange things given the right circumstances. And these are some circumstances indeed.

I'm sad. I've worked so long and hard on this. I miss my husband. I miss that sweetness we had. At night when he came to bed and pulled me next to him it was like honey and warm toast. He has always been that ground that diffused the static of the day, that quieted all the nuttiness and I miss that .... illusion? I know that the little wing-nut OW will never compare to the life we have/had. And I know someday he will deeply regret this. I also know that I may not wait that long for him to figure it out. I'm not sure at this point that he can do the heavy lifting required to change what needs changing, he is very attached to his IB (that's independent behavior right?)

So I'll keep praying and posting, remember my name, ahopefulone, and see what happens, as I tell my students: "You can't push the river"

No, I've never done Tai Chi. That will probably be next! I have a black belt in Karate, am ranked in Judo and Aikido and am currently practicing Kenjitsu (Samurai Sword)

Him saying he does not disrespect the home--translation from fogeese to English--I keep everything secret and hidden from you and family.

From what you describe, he sounds like a major cake-eater and is attempting to be extremely controlling. Follow the advice of your Sensei. Do you have the voice mail from him? I think it should be included in any police report you decide to make. This was a threat to your physical safety and was very abusive and controlling. No man or woman should ever feel they have a right to say something like that to their spouse--throw you off a 13 story building? Don't look at him or talk to him?? This is very abuse laden stuff. Take care of yourself.
Lake

Him saying he does not disrespect the home--translation from fogeese to English--I keep everything secret and hidden from you and family.

From what you describe, he sounds like a major cake-eater and is attempting to be extremely controlling. Follow the advice of your Sensei. Do you have the voice mail from him? I think it should be included in any police report you decide to make. This was a threat to your physical safety and was very abusive and controlling. No man or woman should ever feel they have a right to say something like that to their spouse--throw you off a 13 story building? Don't look at him or talk to him?? This is very abuse laden stuff. Take care of yourself.
Lake

---------------------
BW-Me 52
FWH-53
H had EA 3 weeks in March 06
Married 1977
D-Week: 4-3-06
N C letter 4-10-06
DSs: 12,14, 16
In Recovery