Nitram

snagglepuss is (at best) a wayward wife who has NO CLUE how to recover from her own current adulterous behavior/thinking

please ignore any advice given to you by a current wayward

Sorry SnagglePuss, but there are several reasons the OMW needs to know (aka exposure). One of which has to do with her health. She needs to know so she can get tested for STDs that can and will, if not treated and lay dormant, threaten her life.

She also needs to know so she can make "informed" choices about her marriage and her future with this man who has a propensity to cheat.

Jo

SnagglePuss Wrote:


Its a trust based on lies. Thats why she needs to know.

The trust is already lost, she just doesn't know it. She is trusting someone who IS untrustable.

Snaglepuss,

You said:

Exposure is essential to success here.

Your suggestion has absolutely nothing to do with MB philosophy.

It will neither help the BS protect their marriage further from NC nor will it help the WS to understand consequence of their behavior.

This is not to mention the RIGHT of the other BS to know that their mate is committing adultery.

Of course exposure should occur to the other betrayed spouse. I wish someone had called me up to tell me about my W when she was in her A.

Regards,

I guess what may be the difference is the time line. I am assured that this affair ended nearly ten years ago. I have done and am currently researching the truth that this occured that long ago and has been over that long. Because of my ownership in a large company I have to have high levels of life insurance and have been tested fully for all blood borne diseases (including STD's) so that possiblity is not there.

The deal is that my WW could no longer live with the guilt of what she had done to our marriage not once but numerous times with numerous men. It was literally making her sick from the inside out and she wanted to be well and she wanted to repair our marriage.

I knew we had problems but did not know the source until her revelation. She has lived with this guilt for over 20 years. So in light of this what good comes from me or my WW outing the OM. In my eyes it is his responsibility not ours. And I imagine it will happen anyway because the friendship is cut off.

I can no longer allow my wife to be in any type of relationship with the OM or his wife. So I assume that at sometime all this will come out. The fuse is already lit and the bomb will blow soon. And as far as I can I have been assured that the affair was emotional. They both admitted to everything but the actual act.
Nitram14

liars lie

It is quite bewildering isn't it?


So these poor wives are equally bewildered.

They deserve the truth.

Wouldn't YOU want to know if it was you? Don't you think they are entitled to information about their own lives? Wouldn't you have liked to know? What do you suppose the chances are of their husbands confessing?

Nitram,

I understand why you hesitate to share this information.

I understand that it is in regards to events in the distant past.

However, please understand that you deciding FOR her that she doesn't need to know is extremely patronising.

Who are YOU Nitram to decide that she doesn't get to make choices about her life based on accurate information?

You know right now that she is making the relevant decisions about her life based on LIES.

Lies told by her husband and your wife.

Are you going to join the liars club too?

Will the news be upsetting? Sure. She is discovering that she has been betrayed by someone she is very intimate with. She is discovering that a great deal of her life has been a lie. That she has been a sucker.

However, no matter WHAT she chooses...it's not really a CHOICE if it is made in ignorance.

By not telling her you take her choices away from her and YOU Nitram do not have the *right* to do that.

She is an adult and she has the right to choose how to manage this information [including doing things that you don't want her to do with it]..withholding it is both disrespectfull and extremely selfish.

Nitram,

I have been married for nearly 37 years.

21 years ago, my H had what he claims was a one night stand.

I knew that he had cheated, because I caught a nasty little bug that the woman passed on to me through him. Thank God it was easily cured and that she didn't get pregnant.

However, he denied ever cheating for 13 years. It took my walking out and disappearing before he finally admitted it.

However, at that time, he was also behaving inappropriately toward another woman, although I now believe that she did not reciprocate...unless there was a one night stand when they were drinking.

Many times over the years, I wondered if he was cheating, but managed to talk myself out of believing it. I now believe that my gut instinct was correct all the time. I have even figured out who most of the women were.

However, because I have no proof, my H has denied it all.

While there were a number of good years in our marriage, those times when I believe he was cheating were absolutely miserable for me.

Why? Because of his attitude toward me. When he was being unfaithful, he treated me like dirt under his feet.

So, I would be willing to bet that the OM's wife has been suffering, although she may put a good face upon it, just like I did. She is probably just as bewildered over his behavior as I was over my H's behavior...maybe thinking that she must not be a very good wife.

You need to tell her. I wish that someone had told me.

and just look at my sig,,the horrible attitude that my H has had against me as part of his selfish behavior caused a confession from him but, not until after I moved out. I was under the pretense that there was one A,,that was bad enough and look how many I have found out about since I moved out. It makes me look at what I have been married to all these years and because he had so much to hide he could never really be intimate with his thoughts and feelings,,,there were plenty of times that things slipped out that made me go hmmmm,,,now I know,,,that W deserves to know,,,you know the truth,, why can't she?,,how dare you keep that from her,,,that is joining in the liars club with your W and the OM,,,lying by omission,,,hope you sleep well.

We have seen two counselors (christian) and both of them have advised that we not be the ones who tell the other BS. I am almost 100% sure that the truth will be known because of the circumstances of our "friendship". We spent a good bit of time with this other couple and immedialtely that has stopped, we had a camping trip planned with them and the OM has told me that they would not be going, we did not go to their parents 50th wedding aniversary this past weekend. Sooner or later OMW will question either him or my WW or me and excuses will not hold water.

I am praying that their relationship be healed and that OM do the right thing. What gives me the right to breach that confidence, just because of my WW A with OM? I can't see that.

so basically what you are going to do is hope the cheater she is married to dosen't lie to her? I bet he won't either,,my bet is that he comes right out with the truth about why you no longer participate in these outings. come on,,are ya serious? So, let me get this straight, honesty is not good with these christian counselors? sorry if I sound obnoxious but, sure in a perfect world the WS does tell his BS about the A's, but also in a perfect world they don't happen in the first place. How do you know that he has not moved from your W to another A, shouldn't the BS at least get to know what kind of man she is married to? Do ya think that guy has the christian belief like you? It seems to me that she was a good friend of yours, even if the A didn't involve your W, would you not tell this friend if you knew her H was cheating on her?

Were either one of these "counselors" MB counselors? Or versed in MB principles?

And btw, you can bet if these so-called counselors were the BS themselves, they'd be advising you quite differently. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

Nitram,

This has been quite a shock to you...sounds like you're making your way through this recent trauma (see, it's recent to YOU) from her years of secrets.

Biblical forgiveness has three parts...where you have injured (or in this case, attacked), a Christian then owns what they did to the party they injured, explains thoroughly where their choice came from and why they will not choose that again...part of that act of amends you are already enforcing...no contact for life...so your FWW no longer is attacking the marriage, the BW.

Up until she told you, she was...for she attacked the marriage years ago and then withheld, kept it secret...so the BW experienced a lot of the pain without the knowledge of where it was coming from. She was betrayed by losing the honesty within her marriage...and believes she has it, when it's been gone a long, long time. Without honesty, there is no intimacy.

Isn't that what you're experiencing right now? The betrayal of years of what you thought was, wasn't?

She remains where you were...shielded from the truth. Your wife attacked BW's marriage...she hasn't owned, explained...only is now committed to attacking it further. BW cannot forgive that which she doesn't know. Best your wife can get is God's forgiveness and yours...that's it. That's incomplete...a hole inside your FWW she cannot fill until she owns what she did to whom she injured.

Now...I know you know this. I know your FWW knows this. No more arguments from me. What I'd like to see is YOU owning your choice.

"I choose to continue to keep secret the injury which was done to BF's BW and marriage."

Totally your choice...your part. You can't make your wife, WBF or anyone else own and amend anything. I respect you've made your choice.

Now...how 'bout your recovery? What's the plan in place now for transparency, ownership, detail disclosure, putting the four rules of marriage into practice...all part of your FWW's amends, personal recovery, and marital recovery?

Can you forsee yourself placing your trust in your FWW over time, if she does not amend to you? You know of the injury...what of past or future ones you still don't know? Will you choose to trust her if she doesn't do her amends to others she's injured as grievously? A woman who looked at your wife as her BF? OM's BW was doubly-betrayed, as you were...and you both are about to be your own best friends...to work through honest recovery...and what your wife will not do for her XBF now, bodes ill for you.

She will be able to withhold from you if she feels it's not her responsibility, her place to inform you. Heck, she did that for nearly two decades, didn't she? First, do no harm...not tell truth for it will rupture something...not the choice to act, the telling.

Backwards.

Meanwhile, lies by omission corrode, silently, witheringly, in the dark. You know this first hand. Are you shocked at how much you hurt? The betrayal remains, no matter how long ago the choice was made to betray...each day since, the lie by omission continued.

I just saw in someone's sigline..."Infidelity doesn't kill marriages, lying does."

You choose your marriage...whether to recover or not...your choice. I believe you want to do it well and fully...so you both can thrive. Please include in your plan this boundary and hold yourself and your marriage to it. Your marriage is worth it.

LA

Forgiveness is where I am getting to. I have spoken with my FWW most recent OM twice and the next time I do it will be to offer forgiveness and to say good bye. I intend to contact at least two of the others from her first five affairs to do the same (one was a life long childhood friend).

Part of the difference in our situation is that I did not stop the A's by outing anyone. They were over and done with (the last one five years ago). Confession from my FWW was brought on by me and one suspicion I had from runnning into a former friend. Whem My FWW let go of this secret and guilt she dumped all of this at once.

It literally was eating her alive from the inside out. She had been molested as a child and it continued into young adulthood. This along with loosing her Father at age 18 played an important role in her looking for love and acceptance. She made the wrong choices and did not look to her Husband in every instance and she knows that she owns the responsibility.

If the affair was still going on (I have checked phone records as far back as I can and checked stories and dates for certainty) then I understand full exposure.

Does God intend on me or my FWW to destroy innocent lives if we can take a different route. I believe that the truth will come out but I feel that it should come from BS husband not me or FWW. If it comes out in the confines of their marriage relationship then the chances for healing seem to be greater. She needs to know but not by any one other than her husband.

Nitram

martin

you need to expose

Nitram14,

Expose the affairs to all the other betrayed spouses immediately.

Exposing is a choice to live in the truth and bring dignity and honor to the lives of the other betrayed people that are living a complete sham.

Choosing not to expose is to swallow the pill of cowardice. Would you choose this path for yourself? Would you have chosen never to know about that A’s that your wife was having with OMs?

He!l no you wouldn’t have.

If someone had come to you in the first days of your W’s first A and told you about the situation and then you would likely be dealing with ONE A and the effects of that on your life instead of MANY.

You have a way to end the lie that other people are living and HELP them to find a plan for living honorably and dignified. Right now they are suckers blindly feeling their way through a dark cave with a partner that is stealing something that is priceless from them.

This will ALSO help your wife to understand that there are consequences for her behavior that she DOES NOT control. It will help her to understand what this life is really all about; that being not just her.

She can choose to partner with you in this or not, but you must tell her that it will be done.

Listen to me here, you will never be safe in the future with a serial cheater unless you take the steps to expose like we are advising you to do.

If someone came to you at work and told you that there was a business plan that was essential to execute in order for the company to be successful and thrive would you have issues doing that?

Regards,

I’ll raise the ante on you one more.

If I know of ANYONE that is having an A, even someone that I don’t really know, I will get the information to the BS involved.

It’s that important.

They will find out, and odds are that it may not be in as much of a compassionate manner as you can provide.

Plank is dead on. I have in fact done such in real life.

Nitram,

How are you doing with communication exercises, LBs and ENs? Could it be that you have more time with UA than before, without couples time spent with others?

LA