Hi everyone.....

My H and I have been married since 99 and have two children. S was never that great for either one of us. I love my husband but we are living as roomates who sleep in the same bed. There is no intimacy whatsoever. I work 7:30 am - 4:30 pm and he watches our children during the day and works at night and on weekends. There is hardly any time for US to be together. I'm afraid because I am so used to being either by myself of with my children.

I had an A with someone that I worked with and he has since left the company and we've remained NC. I do admit, there are times that I think of him and I am sure he does the same. There was a lot of passion between us.

The problem is my H and I have zero passion. He knows all about the A. I would think that he would be doing everything and anything to try to make things better. But they aren't better....I'm still living with a roomate.

I feel numb.

Why should he be doing everything to make this work? You cheated on him. You should be doing everything to try and make this work. If there is no passion, make some passion. The problem is that you don't spend any time together because of your schedules. You need to spend at least 15 hours a day meeting each other's emotional needs, otherwise you will lose your connection. No connection, no passion. You should both attend MC and read some of Dr. Harley's books. Reigniting passion isn't an easy thing to do. It takes months and a lot of hard work with very little payback. You need to do it, and don't give up so easily. My W had a 5-6 month EA/PA. She hasn't had any contact since January. We still haven't had any SF in almost 10 months, but I keep working at the relationship and make small progress every day. Eventually we will have a lot of passion again. You just need to believe and not give up.

I have worked for the same company for ten years, provide health insurance for our family, I purchased our home, we live on MY salary. For some reason, he is unable to hold a normal FT job. He is home with our children, he will not cook nor clean. He is lazy beyond belief....he has been going to a therapist but only when I remind him to call to make an appointment. Oh and I sell Avon too, in addition to doing everything else for my children.

So yes, I think he needs to do something quickly because if this continues I cannot stay in this marriage and I do not think it is fair to our children.

Ouch. 10 months is a long time to go without SF. Is this a case of you just waiting until she initiates, or her turning you down every time you approach the subject?

I think you both need to do something quickly - talk about your needs, expectations and boundaries and decide whether or not you want to work on making your M better.. Your A was your choice, and a pretty bad one at that, but the punishment for it shouldn't require you to remain in an M where your needs are obviously not being met.

How about inviting your H here? Would love to hear his side of the story...

Not to TJ, but I'm a 26 year old male. What do you think? My f?WW has developed somewhat of a sexual aversion. I'm trying to remain patient.

Back on subject, I hear a lot of anger and resentment focused at your husband, and I'm sure he feels it to. It sounds like you are blaming everything on him. Sure he is 50% to blame, but if you want to save your M, someone has to act first. Why not you, especially since you had an affair?

First of all, you H needs to find a job during the day, so you can at least spend nights and weekends together. You will never have a connection again as long as you don't spend any time together. If you want to save your M, you need to motivate your H to start working as well. If he sees how hard you are working without demanding anything of him, he will be more motivated to join you in your efforts. If he sees you as bossing him around, he will resist.

Wisewoman,

I find your post very interesting. My first reaction to your post is that if you were a man and posted this, the people here would have you for lunch and NOW would be out picketing your house.

I can see it now.

"Hello everyone, I have been married to my W for a number of years now. She isn't interested in sex. So I went out and had an affair. She takes care of the kids during the day, and works at night and weekends, but she is lazy and a lousy housekeeper.

I feel since I provide all of the money and the health insurance that I deserve better and don't feel at all bad about the A. I think SHE needs to shape up and do something quick or I am out of here. After all me and the kids deserve something better."

Oh Boy, it is a good thing you are a woman. You are also a woman that is very confused on the concept of love and your perspective on your H.

You say you love him, yet you have an affair and expect HIM to fix it. He takes care of the kids and works nights and weekends, yet he is lazy. You complain about intimacy, yet YOU set a schedule where you two have no time together.

Let's see you work full time, he works nights, you two have children Oh! and to make sure you have no time you sell Avon on the side. How nice. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

What I see is an adulteress who somehow feels entitled to have it all her way without doing any of the work on the marriage. You say your H knows about the A, but what have you done or are planning to do, to try and rebuild what you have destroyed? Nothing from the way you tell it.

Wisewoman, I would like to strongly suggest you read the articles on this site. I would also like to suggest that you reflect on what you have done, and how you denigrate your H both to strangers like us and very likely to his face. And then I suggest YOU do something quick to change the dynamics of this marriage, because clearly you are the smarter, the more energetic, and the one usually right. Given all of that ONLY YOU are qualified to make the changes necessary.

Please, stop and really think about this. But first stop and read Harley's articles on disrespectfull judgements, DJ's, and the 4 rules for a good marriage. Not spending any time together and having an affair are NOT on the list of things to do to make a good marriage.

Think about it.

God Bless,

JL

Wisewoman,

I would change your screenname to "confusedwoman" until you've fully examined the reasons why:

-you vilify the man who you had two children with, who stays home and raises them while you have a career.
-you admit to yourself that eventhough the A is over, there aren't "just times" when you think about OM, but "loads of times" when you think of him, and why you are unable to fully withdraw from your A (do you still talk about him at work? Read old emails? Go to his new company's website? Think about WHY YOU ARE DOING THIS, admit it and STOP, for your own health and sanity, and the health of you M.)
-Admit that while there are problems in your M (and there are problems in every M) that YOU are the one that had an A, and truly, fully examine what lead you down that deep, destructive path. I highly recommend IC, and reading John Bradshaw's "Healing the Shame that Binds You".
-Think about how your attitude is affecting your children, and what this is teaching them about love and marriage.
-And finally, depression is anger turned inwards. Your H might "not be doing anything" to make things better, but he's one angry person who is taking it out on himself. I'm sorry this isn't the reaction you were hoping for, but you're going to have to get over it. Start examining yourself so you can better take care of him, so he will better be able to take care of you.

Only after all of that can you call yourself "wisewoman."

KM

From Penalty Kill

Welcome Wisewoman. I have several points to make regarding your posts.

First, I agree with Just Learning. If you were a man, I think that the replies to you would be much harsher in tone. I seem to be the resident feminist here, so I am rather dismayed to hear the things that you say.

You strike me as someone who has never had to stay at home and care for small children all day long. It is often a difficult, thankless job. Instead of mentioning how well your children are being raised, and how lucky for them and for you that a parent is responsible for their care, you seem to focus on your H's lack of housecleaning skills.

Hello. It is virtually impossible to be a primary caregiver *and* to hold a "normal FT job".

Has it occurred to you that your H's care for the children has allowed you to succeed in your job? Do you ever thank him for this?

As for the lack of passion, it doesn't sound like you are making it a priority at all. Believe me, it's not foreplay to complain about the state of the house when you come home. You both need to work at this. Sit down and communicate. Work out a schedule for some time alone together - presumeably you were able to do that w/OM. As for passion, you didn't live w/OM, you didn't have to deal with all the childcare/housecleaning/$ issues with him. It's the airbrushed, photoshopped version of a relationship. What you have with your H is a real relationship, warts and all.

So don't compare apples to oranges.

As for the Avon job? The small amount of $ you receive from that is probably not as valuable as time you could be spending with your H working at repairing your relationship. My advice would be to ditch it.

Finally, you had an A. You, not your H, are the one who needs to work harder right now. I don't think that you get how upsetting this must be for him.

And I didn't hear one thing in your post about how you need to change. NC is not enough. You have to change your mindset and the way you operate. A little empathy would be a good start.

Take care.

WiseW,

You are getting some excellent advice from people here.

Some of them have been in the shoes that you are wearing right now.

Let their words sink in.

WW wrote:


You, my dear, are responsible for 100% of your 50% of the marriage and your husband it responsible for the same.

If you want to see change (passion), then make it so. If you feel "numb" its your responsibility, not your husband's, to change that.

Your husband has been betrayed by you, the person he "thought" he could trust with his life. After such an act how can you expect him to want to improve things. He's feeling a hurt you can never know unless you've experienced betrayal by adultery.

If you want to be happy in your marriage, its time for you to step up and start making those changes.

Forgive me, but I sense an overall attitude of entitlement in your words. Why is it you think your husband should be making a mends and kissing your patutee when its you who have betrayed him. IMHO, you have it entirely backwards.

Jo

WW ~

You have gotten many 2x4s right off the bat. Not that I don't agree with them, but I am going to go off in a different direction.

For one, good for you for coming here. That is a great start!

Second ~I am the BS, my H had an A. HE is doing all of the "heavy-lifting" in our recovery efforts right now. I am too hurt and too gun-shy to put myself out there again; I have terrible fears of being betrayed yet again, so I am protecting my heart. It's not something I am doing on purpose, it is just happening. It's normal.

Your H is probably feeling the same. His pain is unbearable and he is not willing to invest in you or your M for fear of investing too much and getting hurt again.

Read HNHN, do the EN questionaire, and ask your H to do the same. Start meeting his needs, even if you don't get any return at first. Feelings follow actions, so soon you will be feeling stirrings of love for your H.

This is what my FWH is doing, and I am falling in love with him again. I am starting to WANT to meet his needs because he is meeting mine, and I am starting to feel a little bit safe, like I will not get slammed again, so I want to start investing a little more. I hope this makes sense.

Also, it sounds like your H probably needs to be on ADs. Dr. Harley highly recommends it after an A. I am on them and would probably be like your H without them. Dr. Harley also says that your spouse's betrayal is the worst thing someone will go through. It is, and I am living it. Offer to help your H get through this, however you can.

Have you thought of phone counseling with Steve Harley? He is trememdously helpful for us, I highly recommend it.

Good luck.

WW:

Glad your here. You are in the best place to fix your M. You just need to drop some of the defenses and listen to the posters.

Nobody has said anything to you here that you probably realize deep down you need to do.

So start doing it.

Stop selling the AVON stuff. It's economic slavery.

If your H works nights, and then come home late, and you probably get the kids off to school, of does he?

Do you want the house in a particular shape? Then do it. Harley explains that "wanting the other person to do something that you want done, but are unwilling to do yourself causes conflict in a marraige" And is a Love Buster. So Hire a Maid.

Do you want to become a stay at home Mom? Have your H provide a lifestyle so that you could? It may not ever happen.

So buy His Needs, Her Needs. (HNHN) It will be an eye opener for you. Much of what you complain about can be addressed within the pages of that book.

Then buy Surviving an Affair (SAA). You will realize from that book that the recovery from the A starts with you. Not Him.

Buy them both from this website. Don't go to the bookstore, your M can't wait that long.

If you hang around, you will discover that we will help guide you to the places you need to go.

And if you go there, your H just might follow. But changing your behaviors, may result in his changed behaviors.

LG

From Penalty Kill


I resemble that remark!

PK

Me too. I sounded very much like WiseW when I first came here. There is hope!

Katie Mae

Penalty Box -

Don't compare apples to varnished manure. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />


WW, the advice you have gotten here is better than you know. If it were me, given the choice between 'therapists' and a whole bunch of people who have actually BTDT, I would pick the folks in the trenches every time.

I hope you stay around long enough to find the value in the above wise words.

WW- (gotta admit that the way the initials pan out makes good sense)

What are YOU doing to improve the state of your marriage? Have you sought out marriage counseling for the two of you? Tried working out a plan or schedule to share the responsibilities of the household with him? Attempted to revive the passion in your marriage in some way? Perhaps done some research on things that you might do to improve things, and suggested them to him?

Have you made it clear to him how unhappy you are with everything, BESIDES having an affair? Have you done the emotional needs questionairre on this site and worked with him to do his, and tried to find ways to meet EACH OTHER's needs?

You can't change him. You can only change yourself. But, making the RIGHT changes in you can often lead to the changes in him that you want to see.

Take ownership of what you CAN control. Do YOUR part. Once you've made YOUR changes, take a look around and see what else can be done.

On your affair...how did he react? How did he find out? How are the two of you 'recovering' from that?

WW wrote in another thread pursuant to this one:


WW - if you try to drop your defenses a bit here, and read the replies with the spirit of helpfulness that they are intended to have, you might glean a bit more insight.

I've been in your husband's shoes - and my XH had an EA around the same time all that was happening. He worked full-time for not much pay. I stayed home with the kids, babysat other kids to earn money, then when he came home from work, I went to work. I worked evenings and weekends - because that's what we had to do to make ends meet. Putting the kids in daycare was not an option from a moral standpoint, and we decided this early on (I'd planned to return to work after DD was born - but I couldn't so we figured out ways to make do). Besides, the cost of putting them in daycare would have canceled out much of one income anyway - so you do what you must to get by.

I don't know how old your kids are, but it's virtually impossible to keep a perfect house when you have small children, unless you don't allow them to play. I'd rather have a messy house and happy healthy kids, than a perfect house with no "home" to it.

When H comes home at night - do something special for him. Rub his feet if he likes that - or his back. Tell him what a good job he's doing with the kids. Tell him you appreciate what he *is* doing, and don't focus on what he isn't. If I had a re-do with my own M (and I'm working to try to win my XH's love back), I would do a LOT of things differently. You're still married - you have a huge advantage. I wore your husband's "pants" but I was in your shoes - I felt that because I was working 15+ hours a day (in the home and then going to work) and he worked 8 hours, that he should have been doing more for me - and that was the wrong way to look at it.

You are in this *together*. You both have strengths and weaknesses. Partners should complement each other - he's strong with the kids, you are strong as the breadwinner. Don't make them cancel each other out - let them work together for you.

If you stepped out of the M, then you do have some attonement to make. Just being there isn't enough. Your husband was hurt by this - you need to make amends. And I understand that you may be still feeling the "entitlement" that goes along with the attitude you had when you had your affair - but if you are truly committed to making your marriage work, then it has to start with YOU.

You can't change him. You can't control him. But you can fix YOU.

I'm learning that in the last couple of months, I've taken a different attitude with my XH. I am doing my best to fill the emotional needs of his that I can - as much as he will let me. He's currently involved with someone else (it's long-distance now - she moved away 2 months ago) - so I'm trying to "sneak in and take over" as it were... but not in an evil way - in a loving way, to show him that his home and family are still here for him, and I'm trying to gently lead him back to us.

Guess what? I'm doing little things for him - and he's starting to do little things for me. He doesn't even necessarily realize it - but slowly (very slowly) we are drawing closer together.

Read the articles here - get the books... they WORK - but only if you want them to.

In support,

JinGA

Not so Wisewoman,

Wow.

I'm not a 2X4 kind of person, but I will just put some things out there for you. I want you to be able to see things from the other side of this fence. Also, give you some ideas for things you probably need to do right away to get started on recovery.

I am a betrayed wife. My husband is, and has been, doing a lot of heavy lifting in the marriage since d-day, and he needs to keep doing that, because this is tough work to recover a marriage after an affair.

The list of books you need to order from (choose any two, order them today, all are available on Amazon):

After the Affair
Surviving an Affair
His Needs/Her Needs
Relationship Rescue
Not Just Friends

Order them now. Do not wait, order 2 of these books. Your first order of business is to begin reading the books TOGETHER.

Because you both need to understand exactly what your affair has done to your relationship, what led up to this affair, and what your contributions to the state of the marriage prior to the affair were.

And right this minute, YOU need to understand that you have a very unrealistic sense of expectations of your husband. I don't believe you fully understand the blow your affair has dealt to your husband's ego, and his ability to fully recover from this blow will take at least two years OF FULL ATTENTION AND HARD WORK. At this point, you two haven't really worked on the marriage - you are here, basically in the same place you were in before the affair.

I sense by your writing that you remain in contact with the other man. As long as you are in contact with him, even through your friends, via email, telephone, text messages, letters, notes, or any other "checking in" to see how he is doing, your marriage has not begun the recovery phase. It will NOT begin the recovery phase, either, until true NO-CONTACT is in place. You will maintain your fantasy about him and not reconnect with your husband as long as you continue contact. You must completely stop.

Next, face yourself. YOU own this affair, nobody else does. Not OM. Not your husband. You. It is 100% yours. Had you asked your husband to vote on whether or not you should have the affair, his vote would have been "NO". If you asked your mom, your pastor, you know the rest - "NO". Because it was the wrong thing to do.

And YOU made this decision. Nobody else made this decision.

Had it been the right thing to do, it would not have been hidden. It would have been very easy to do, it would not have torn you apart, torn your marriage apart, and you would not be here a year later, still working to repair what you know you broke.

So go back to your husband, and OWN 100% of it. Tell him that NOTHING he did, or did not do, created this affair. Tell him that YOU are responsible for the affair, it was a choice you made - and a bad one. That it was about YOU, not about him at all.

One you understand this, you will be able to get on the road to truly recovering your marriage.

But you have to understand that your husband did not "make" you have an affair. It isn't because HE is lazy, not meeting your needs, or anything else. Although that may be true - YOU still did not honor your vows, YOU did not protect yourself from your own weaknesses, YOU did not go to him and address the needs in a productive way, YOU made a decision unilaterally to go outside the marriage, YOU sought another man.

You own the affair. 100%

Next, you say your husband knows all about the affair. I hope so. I hope you gave him the respect and truth he deserves, and honestly and openly answered every single question he had regarding every aspect of the affair. He deserves to know everything he wants to know about it. BS have so many questions, and it is very important that they have those questions answered. It goes a long way in rebuilding trust.

Are you open in your schedule? Can he trust where you are all the time? Do you give him access to your cellphone, email, and everything else?

Do you hire a babysitter at least one time a week, and go out together - at least take a sandwich and sit in the park together for some time alone?

Finally,

Make a list of the top five things YOU have to change about yourself in this marriage. I would like to see that posted here.

SB