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So the FWW mentioned in passing about 3-4 weeks ago how she was going off the pill. She has said this dozens of times in our M when she feels sick from the pill. Usually resulting in her saying I decided to stay on the pill or Frog you need protectition

I didn't clarify she meant that particular day. We continued to have SF and I really didn't know without protection. Again she knew I didn't want a kid and we kept having sf unprotected. I know I am an idiot.

So she got pregnant. I am dealing with Mom's surgery on Monday.

So I have been upset about it. She has admitted she knew I didn't comprehend she was off the pill. She admitted she felt covered bacause she mentioned she was stopping. She knew now wasn't the time for this. She also knew I didn't know she was off the pill because she has said it so many times.

She never warned me after she made a passing comment.

It was a passing comment to. A one sentence statement.

So below is the email trai of today. 2x4's please



Her
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I miss my best friend. Please remember where we are right now, I think you are bringing up the past when it has no place here. I pray God softens your heart and you remember how much you love me too.

Me
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I do get diverted into the past. You seem to be ready, able and willing to bring up and discuss the “past” when it helps your case or you are the “victim” moving back to New York for example.

However, if and when I do the same it “has no place here”.

In many cases people will say past performance is a good indicator of what will happen in the future. I am actually kicking myself because based on the past, that you say has no place here, I should have seen this coming a mile away. This is very much the same as many of the other decisions you have made.

You make a decision on your own without consenting me. A big decision. One that affects everyone. That benefits you or what you want. This makes the past relevant, because it is your pattern.

Now I will have to make the same choice I always have too. Live with it or don’t. How many times in a marriage should I have to make that decision?

What protects me from this continuing to happen when you want something I don’t? You bring up me making the decision to live here. I will say this; you made the decision when you moved here. YOU made the mistake of moving here and expected me to fix it. I am not your fix it man. I am supposed to be a partner, an equal partner. By the way not moving doesn’t give you the right to always make every other big decision. That isn’t equal.

If you decided it was a mistake to be here do not blame me for not FIXING YOUR MISTAKE. I am tired of living like I owe you something or you sacrificed something. You made the mistake of moving here you should have fixed it by leaving and going back. You chose not to leave; I don’t want to hear you loved me or anything else. It was clear that moving was your biggest mistake and you should have fixed it.

You ask me not to bring up the past well there it is you have held on to that one mistake I didn’t fix and used it to justify all of this I have had to deal with.

That one mistake that you made that I didn’t fix for you has haunted me since you realized it was a mistake. Since that day you have felt entitled to do what you want when you want where you want and with whomever you want. And you have done those things.

Just an FYI, I am still dealing with things I just found out about your last big mistake that you decided to hide for years. I am also dealing with the financial fall out from that mistake as well. I was feeling more and more that this marriage was getting better and we could put this behind us. I wasn’t there yet. It takes time to heal from things I didn’t know.

You don’t even have the courtesy to let the dust settle on that. And by the way we never did it my way where you told me I had to just let it go. I gave up and gave in to doing it your way because I was tired of fighting for the truth.

Since then I have been tasked with fixing them, or living with them or ????

Then you fall back on how we are different people and I said I wanted 3 kids. I did until all this stuff kept happening which changed my mind. Thank you for changing it back for me.

Now you want God to soften what you continue to harden??


Her
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I was not bring up moving back to New York for any other reason then to point out I don’t “Always” get what I want. I am very happy here with you, bottom line. You went on how I think that was a big mistake, I don’t. What are you talking about? I have already apologized time and time again for my actions in the past. I have taken responsibility. I am very hurt by you right now.


Me
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I am not going back and forth with you on this. The other day you said it was a mistake to come here and to marry me. Your standard we should have never gotten married speech because we are SOOO different.

Taken responsibility? How. You held off on that until taking responsibility was nothing more then words. I loved you enough to try to move past that. Now this.

You are hurt right now? Stop looking inward and imagine how I feel.

Her
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I said some things to you the other day because I was hurt; you said some cruel things also. I hope you didn’t mean what you said, I didn’t. I know you are upset, but at what? What is going on now or everything from the past? You are bringing up everything I’ve ever done wrong, that’s not right. You are turning this into something other then what it is.

Me
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Your words about us being a mistake are a constant theme in our discussions as a diversion from the true topic. I know it is just the passive aggressive way to deal with it.

I am upset that you AGAIN made a life changing decision on your own. A decision that the brunt of the financial burden falls on me. I am not done dealing with the brunt of the last decision you made and now this. So since that part of the past is still present I am upset about it. I am also upset that yet again YOU deceived me. You lied to me through omission, I thought we were done with that. I thought you were a different person. A person that would never do anything to damage our marriage again by lying or hiding something from me.

What a joke.

You got what made you feel good today and can’t understand why you feeling good sometimes makes my life harder. You seem to be able to trade our future together for what you want now quite easily. Seems like the past is present again. You got what you want and in the end that seems to be what matters. Damn the future, Frog will figure that out. IF he doesn’t like it too bad as long as it feels good while I am doing it and You is ok with it.

You take responsibility for your actions? How? Your actions made me question having another child right now, but that’s too late you couldn’t live with the fact your past made me question that so you did what you wanted.

I have a lot to figure out now. How to pay the taxes, how to fix the credit. What to do with YOUR CAR. Do you know if we will be able to make that payment?

No more MMA for OS. Baseball will be the bare minimum for YS. No more camps or academies we won’t be able to afford all of that.

I will not get a new car. I will be back to the grind with the bills.

Thank you.

I am not turning it into anything. It is exactly the same thinking and the same entitlement that has rocked the foundation of this marriage.

Her
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You really need to talk to someone about this, your mom or your sister maybe? Why don’t you print out the emails and have someone take a look at what’s been written and see what they think of all this.

So now she is pregnant and I am back in the same mess.

Live and learn but she wanted others to read it.

Last edited by frognomore; 06/01/07 05:13 PM.

BS 38
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3 boys 12, 8 and a new baby


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she likes to be in charge and make unilateral decisions that profoundly effect others (you & unborn)

best advice

REALLY

contact the Harleys

this is long-term stuff

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OH, Frog...

I'm so sorry that you are in this position again...so uncool!

((((Frog)))

I wish I have something better to say, but I don't...I'm sorry!


A loving heart is the beginning of all knowledge.
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I know you are upset now, and that is natural, but in time you may see what a beautiful opportunity you have here.

My husband's great-grandmother had 14 children, 8 survived. She welcomed each one, saying that "Babies bring their love with them."

I thought of this when I got accidently pregnant while I was having an EA three years ago. I considered the pregnancy REALLY inconvenient... but our surprise baby is now almost 2 and he is the light of our lives. I couldn't love him more, and my husband feels the same way. My attitude changed when I was about 4 months pregnant. Hang on and it will be ok.

Blessings to you,
Saturn


Me: 45
Him: 47
married 23 years
Two wonderful sons
D-day for my EA: 8/15/04
D-day for his PAs: 8/16/06

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Frog I was just thinking about you and your mom. I am so sorry that you are hurt by your W's actions. I can feel your pain. It's like you are already dealing with your mom's health issues then if that is not enough you have the strain of thinking about another mouth to feed. I am so sorry I was ever this way with my DH. I too use to always get things my way and never consider how they would make him feel. I hurt him so much and I wish I could take it all back. However I know I can't so now I try and make sure I don'r repeat my mistakes.

Your W seems as if she still has a lot of growing up to do. I think she is immature. We can;t always get what we want and we realize that instant gratification is not something that fulfills us. It's learing to love yourself and be thankful for all you have that you find happiness. I am such a happy and lucky woman that I have started to see what I had to be thankful for and before it was to late. I am glad my H didn't give up on me like I was ready to give up on him.

I think it would be a really good idea to bring your W here. I know it has been very eye opening for me. It has helped me realize what I wanted most was right in the front of my face. I almost lost it and because of my own stupidity and the fact I was pushing my DSH away. Instead of trying to improve myself and our M. I was blaming him and looking outward for happiness and it doesn't work.

However I will say this. The Lord does not put more on you than you can bare. If he didn't think you were strong enough to handle this you wouldn't be in this situation right now. Adversity makes us grow. Maybe God has you going through all of this now because he wants you to see you are stronger than you think you are. Maybe it will be enough to make you look for the job of your dreams so you can take care of your family and still live comfortably and get the house you want. It may seem like to much but I promise it can be done. My DH felt much like you when he found out I was pregnant with our fourth and not only do we have enough money for me to still stay at home but we got a bigger house and we don't have to worry about making end meets. It will all work out for your good you just have to work on changing your prespective. I will be praying for your family and your mom. It will be alright


Me (32)
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Thank you very much.

My question is if you read the emails back and forth and those are verbatum what did I say wrong?

She suggested I get opinions. Am I missing something?

I am furious at this point that she did this.

Of course I will welcome my own child but I am upset.

LA posted today and I read the link and to tell you exactly everything in there happened with us today.

If you read what was written did I say something wrong.

Are my comparisons off? Is this the same behavior manifesting itself in a different situation.


BS 38
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D Day 10/03
Recovery started 11/06
3 boys 12, 8 and a new baby


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uhhh, ok...I'll play bad guy.

I don't think you can lay this all on her shoulders. I only know of one form of birth control that is 100 percent effective. Abstinence.

I agree, she should have made it perfectly clear that she was no longer taking the pill but, I also feel that EVERY time you have sexual intercourse, you should expect to conceive a child.

If you did not want a child, no way, no how, you should have taken ADDITIONAL measures to prevent it. Especially knowing that she has mentioned not taking the pill in the past.

IMO, condoms are cheap. Use 'em.


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I don't think you did anything wrong Frog. I think because it is so much easier to find fault in others than to see that fault in ourselves it makes us point fingers instead of self evaluating. If you hurt your W it is because she chose to be hurt and not anything you dones intentionally. You can't control how she feels. I think you expressed you feelings very well. I just think she has a problem accepting that she hurt you and taking responsibilty for her actions and desicions.

You are not stupid and stop beating yourself up. It doesn't help. Your W needs to learn how to hear you out without taking your truth personally. Have either of you gone to IC?

I am so sorry you are angry. I think now will be a good time to let the bubbles tickle you booty.LOL <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> I have to tell you when the baby get here you will then try and figure out how you ever made it without him/her. Correct me if I am wrong but did you change your mind about another baby because you didn't know if things would work out with you two and if it didn't you wouldn't want to add anyone new to the equation to hurt? If so I can see your need for reluctance and then because she is still doing things that she did in the past that cuased some of the problems in your R you don't think she learned from her mistakes. So you don't know what else is to come and you still can feel secure and move ahead because of it?


Me (32)
H (33)
3 DD's 9,8,2
1 DS 4
Married 4/19/99


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ba

Of course condoms are cheap and no form of birth control is 100%.

If my FWW got pregnant while on the pill I would not be happy but that isn't what happened.

AGain my FWW has said bunches of times she was going off. We would make other arangements or she would keep taking it.

So do I take ownership that no form is 100% yes but she just decided to go off. Again it was nothing more then her saying I think I am going off the pill knowing she has said teh same thing 100s of times to.

I know how I will feel. I am a wonderful father. Kids love me.

I am just tired of getting worked like this.

I feel like an idiot. She knows there is nothing I can really do at this point.

I can't stop being who I am. I had a roadmap to have a house in a year and a half with all debts paid off. I need to tear that up.

To be honest it is the two kids we have I feel bad for. We finally started being able to do more for them again.

Geez.


BS 38
FWW 35
D Day 10/03
Recovery started 11/06
3 boys 12, 8 and a new baby


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Well, there are two ways of looking at it; betrayal or opportunity.

If you ever wanted the opportunity to really, really bond with your wife at an intimacy level that is almost without duplication, her pregnancy presents it. A pregnant woman is incredibly vulnerable. This may be a make it or break deal with her.

Hold her close, rub her belly, sing to the baby in the womb, and otherwise own the child. The child did not ask to be conceived. If you resent your wife, it will show in the way you act and that is NOT a good thing. I know of at least one other situation on here where the guy was NOT supportive of his wife during her third pregnancy and he paid for that down the road when another moved in and gave his wife what she needed.

It is really, really difficult for a woman to stay centered when she is carrying around a baby. Hate to tell you, but this is one more time you are going to have to bite the bullet in my opinion.

Larry

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Look Frog... I don't know much about your situation... so I will just ask this... are you positive that she is not sleeping with someone else too. Everytime a ww gets pregnant here....or a new FWW... I am suspicious of the paternity. If you have any doubts about this... make sure you figure it out as soon as possible.

As far as your getting her pregnant.. I can see both sides of the issue brought up here...on one hand, you should have been more careful and on the other your history with her would indicate that you need not be concerned.

Best of luck to you.

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I guess she didn't read the POJA stuff here.........

I don't blame you at all. A man should be able to trust that his wife is being honest. Even though mentioned getting off the pill, it was her duty to mention it AGAIN before having unprotected sex. As a woman I can tell you, it is NOT something we "forget" about.

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Larry eventually that is what will happen. I am just upset that I have charted the course and now whe decides to make this decesion.

MEDC it is mine. OM is 3000 miles away plus there has been NC and we are together all the time. Nothing wierd going on.

Believer yes there was I think one time she actually did follow through with not taking the pill. She stopped getting per prescriptions and I got condoms.

She knew I was opposed. I guess POJA went right out of the window.

At this point I am at piece with having the baby I just didn't need another trust issue in my M.

So from here on out I need to see a change or be ever vigilent when she wants something and I am not on board.

Thanks guys. Did I DJ her or LB in the Email?


BS 38
FWW 35
D Day 10/03
Recovery started 11/06
3 boys 12, 8 and a new baby


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Frog I answered your question in my last post did you see it? I don't think you LB. I think you stated your fears to your W.


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Hi, Frog.

I will have to side with MEDC.

Tell your wife that you intend to have paternity tested immediately after birth.

You don't have to be mean or threatening or anything other than matter of fact about it. Don't be apologetic. The whole situation is suspicious.

Gimble


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-An infidel will remain unreachable so long as their sense of entitlement exceeds their ability to reason.
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Frog,

I'll just agree with what Larry said. Problem or challenge? Difficulty or opportunity? You can make it either side of the question.

I once had a dream of being in a house in the Ozarks that was paid for within a year of that day...I too had a plan and the means to accomplish it.

That was three cars, two pickups, two SUVs, 3/4 of a college education, one grandchild, two home equity loans, one blown inheritance and an affair ago.

Today the goal is farther away than it was back then, but except for the A, I wouldn't trade any of it for a house in the country, even with all the debt.

You are probably right, this is something that needs to be dealt with, if it isn't something you are willing to live with, but for now, keep playing Daddy...and be glad she didn't go off the pill five years ago.

It's never so bad that it cannot get worse. (a corollary of Murphy's Law)

Mark

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Frog:

Congratulations!

Someday in the next eight months you will be blessed with a new child in your life.

And everything, yes, everything, you have said here will be forgotten.

Did your wife deceive you?

No. She said she was going off the pill and you didn't follow up on that.

Should there have been more POJA on this? Certainly, OMG, Yes.

Could this also result in a miscarriage or other tradegy?

Yes.

But.

IN the next eight months you will be blessed with a new child in your life.

And nothing else really matters besides that.

Moving into a home, that you own, in 1 1/2 Years?

No New Car?

Kid cannot participate in MMA?

Material Things, Frog.

Material Things.

In this length of time we are talking about:

Your mother may not survive the cancer.

An event with the baby could result in the loss of one or the other.

AND you could be walking across the street for lunch and get hit by a car.

Plans? Plans are what we make while LIFE goes on around us.

I don't really know you, Frog. I have enjoyed your posts and your insights around here.

But what happens when you go home today can have a much greater bearing on the rest of your life than you think.

Yes, She was selfish. But, Now? You get to be much more than a frog. You get to be the KING.

Remember that.

And this child comes with all the knowledge that MB has accumulated for you.

Please use it.

Congratulations!

LG

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Frankly, from what I have learned from my wife, a woman gets married to have babies and a family. This is the underlying factor. She wanted a baby. It was in a part of her brain where she has less control than she should. Ok, it is what it is.

Quote
Yes, She was selfish. But, Now? You get to be much more than a frog. You get to be the KING.

Remember that.

Yes Frog, you get to be King in her eyes. Just tell her that your first reaction was shock, but that you love her and will support her emotionally as she goes through her pregnancy and will love the child and her no matter what.

Then show her. Congratulations Dad!

Larry

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Guys,


Thanks. You are all right.

I just feel beat up by this. She seems to get what she wants when she wants but I am going to be a daddy again.

I want some material things to be honest. We started having kids before we were married never really caught up.

She knew what she was doing. Good for her.

She won. Now on to the life I was given.

LOL.


BS 38
FWW 35
D Day 10/03
Recovery started 11/06
3 boys 12, 8 and a new baby


When life hands you lemons make lemonade then try to find the person life hands vodka and have a party.
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Guys,


Thanks. You are all right.

I just feel beat up by this. She seems to get what she wants when she wants but I am going to be a daddy again.

I want some material things to be honest. We started having kids before we were married never really caught up.

She knew what she was doing. Good for her.

She won. Now on to the life I was given.

LOL.


Uh, she won? On some things, she will always win simply because it is the nature of the thing. Go see that post I wrote about infatuation and see if you can find the site. There are some interesting things there. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Larry

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