From Penalty Kill


Frog, I really agree 100% with ba109 here, actually more like 110%. I don't think you can lay this all at your FWW's doorstep, simply because she merely mentioned wanting to go off the pill rather than issuing an alert. Frankly, it sounds like you didn't follow up her statement with any probing questions. And if ever a statement called for probing questions, this was it. Instead, you just kind of let it go and assumed she was going to stay on the pill.

If you were serious about not having another child at this point, a form of birth control that *you* could have used or seen would have been a much better bet. Remember that in nine months.

For now, a child is coming into the world. You both have time before he/she arrives to shore up your relationship and improve your communication skills.

Take care.

PK

Frog, I feel for you, bud. I really do. Now, continue working in the marriage (especially POJA, openness), because your children need you. I think LG hit it out of the park. I wouldn't say that she deceived you, because she did not; yes, she said something in passing, and you decided on it's level of importance. Your stuff, not hers.

Now, it IS PA to mention something of life changing significance in passing, and that would piss me off too, but, Frog, you know this about your FWW, right? This is not new for her. The question becomes how do you deal with someone who is PA (as you chose to remain in this M, you need to find a way). YOu control YOU, that's it.

The trust issue is a biggie from all suffering from the slights of infidelity, and your WW may have mentioned that she was going off of birth control, but doesn't sound like she said BECAUSE I WANT TO GET PREGNANT. That's the whole issue, yes she told you she wanted to stop BC, but not WHY (I have gone off for reasons other than to become pregnant).

So, I agree with your emails and assessment, but that changes nothing, Frog. Let that dust settle, as this is just one day in the myriad of days that you two, hopefully, have left together. From this point on, I would not discuss this child as anything other than a happy accident, and separate the child from the mother's behavior. YOu have a good 7-8 mos to get used to this and enjoy it; let that be your refuge from what is happening with your mother; maybe there's a happy coincidence here.

Frog, bright side this as much as you can. Make that lemonade and find the person that life hands vodka; oh, wait, that's your wife, right? Living this life isn't for wimps and nothing is perfect. I can see wanting a Plan to follow, but there are two of you who must learn to agree.

Bottom line, you control you and what level of significance you choose to put to anything anyone says to you. Both of you are still learning, not just your FWW.

Heck, I am gonna stir the pot even more. No shame here.

Frog, could it be that you subconsiously wanted another kid? I mean you KNOW how clingy and horny women get when they're pregnant, right? Maybe you really did it on purpose, maybe??????

I mean you could have a long talk with yourself and see if somewhere deep inside you was a primal urge to mate with your woman and create life, right?

Frog, ol buddy, if you gotta brain in your head, you will convince yourself that your primal hind brain WANTED to make that baby in her and you will tell her exactly that.

Got it? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Larry

THAT is MY version of making lemonade.

Larry, that is an absolute no, I did not want another child NOW.

I am not saying I never wanted another child that is why no vasectomy. Just not right now.

As far as her saying she was going off the pill she has probably said that 100 times in our M never to do it.

Every time it makes her a little sick or she forgets or her prescription runs out.

There have been times when she went off and I used protection.

She already admits being deceptive about in so that is that.

I will welcome this child into this world.

I am not against having a child I just really detest the way she went about it. The fact as SL has said "I SHOULD HAVE KNOWN HER BETTER."

It is what it is. I will be a father again.

Just a little tired of her getting it her way. Wish POJA existed here but it didn't

Time for the lemonade. Thank you all.

I just wanted to make sure my communication was OK.

Gotta go find the Vodka person. LOL.

While I do believe you can consider the coming child a blessing, I would be EXTREMELY angry. Your wife is taking away your choices. It would have been nice to discuss having another child. It would have been nice to get in better financial shape.

Sorry, but I don't like the way MANY women foist a baby on a man.

Hey Frog. I read your signature. I was attempting to see about lemonade in the face of reality. Again, a women who is pregnant is extremely vulnerable. That is reality. How she got that way in terms of your agreement doesn't change a thing.

All the best.

Larry

Larry you are absolutely right, I am going to make a Vodka Lemonade.

I know she is vulnerable, I have two kids. I own my part in this. I let my gaurd down. I know when my FWW wants something she will get it.

I should have not trusted her.

She is pregnant. I will be a father and such is the way it goes.

I will say though that this is another example of how our M is broken.

This may not be the straw but it doesn't help.

I beleive in honesty. O&H conversation are important to me.

To me it is a betrayal. She didn't have a right to make this decesion. She knew she did. I know she did.

What really ticks me off is I wanted a vasectomy but agreed to wait as long as she stayed protected.

I wouldn't be here if I didn't show trust in her.

My mistake.

I agree with you, Frog. Becoming pregnant without POJA is a form of control. She has effectively signed you up for another 18 years of being responsible for the welfare of another human being. I forget what it costs to raise a child nowdays, but it was around $300,000. several years ago.

And all along you are supposed to be "happy" about this little bundle of love.

Hi frog-

I know that this is not something you wanted and it is hard to be happy about it. I was in a situation slightly different than yours, but as unexpected.

After we had our two kids (DD21 DS18) my (now X)H had a vasectomy. He isn't one for follow through with medical stuff and he assumed that after two visits to his dr. the 3rd was not needed. He also quit smoking during this time. I'm not sure if there was some tie in to this, but I think his body said-"hey let's heal everything!" after that.

So, when I started feeling "that way" I tried to convince myself that it was just in my head. I even chastised myself for buying a home preg test. Well, it was a Clear Blue test and the stick was BLUE! I found out that I was going to have another kid the day after I applied to graduate school.
My whole life shifted. It was hard to be excited about this huge change in our plans. But a dear friend reminded me that surprises are things we don't know we want until we get them.

Fast forward to today. God knew I would need this boy. Not only is he a unique child with incredible depth, he became a lifeline for me during this whole mess (A/WH leaving/cancer/chemo/D). You just can't know what God has in store until things are in place and He reveals how He will use the circumstances.

Although I understand your circumstances are very different, I truly understand how you feel.

PS: I had the surgery after this surprise. No more in my house except for the ones we chose to be here which now includes DD25 (her mom died of cancer when she was 19 so she's family now)

FNM,

My advice as sopmeone who in fact GOT knocked up during recovery and was EXTREMELY unhappy to discover it.

I came *this* close to chucking that test across the room [fortunately my superego kicked in juuust in time to remind me it was essentially a cup full of pee].

I stewed, I fretted, I felt mad.

I was DONE with the whole baby thing. I had two kids who didn't require a suitcase full of crap to take places! No diapers. No night feedings. No sixty pound weight gain to slowly sulkingly work off.

And yet..pregnant.

So it is what it is.

Could you have taken more precaution than you did? Yes and you already know that.

Is it not happy welcome news? Nope.

Will you be a good dad anyway? Yep.

This is just another in a series of seemingly endless curveballs that life tosses at you..taking you down roads you didn't think you wanted to go down.

I think you will have to work through your feelings here.

I think that while you do so you will miss opportunities to celebrate which you will regret and feel guilty about later.

Just experience talking.

And even after you are in love with your new baby you will STILL probably mourn that road you thought you were going down when you are tired and the child is an obstacle.

Nothing is more annoying than a bunch of people doing their best impression of Pollyanna on speed trying to convince you to be happy before you are ready so I'm not gonna waste breath convincing you that there is and will be gain here...you already know it. You are probably struggling very hard against it because you still want to be mad and feel taken advantage of.

So dude...good luck and best wishes and try to remember to take a minute to celebrate that little life in between sessions of self pity and frustration [and I say that with ZERO condemnation or sarcasm, only chagrined sentiment].

Don't take it out on your wife. She will remember long after you have forgotten why you ever felt that way and your disappointment in discovering the baby will mean more to her than it ever needs to because this is not REAL. This is not your feelings about your child..it is your feelings about your choices being limited.

Recovering from an affair it's likely you will be touchy about having your choices taken away from you for awhile.

Believer That is exactly how I feel right now. I know that feeling will pass. Unfortunately for me, my FWW's earning potential is not high so with our other two kids she had to be a SAHM. All of the financial burden fell on me.

Even now she works part time making less then 1/10th of what I make. So for the first five years after birth it doesn' really make sense for her to work. We are lucky if we break even.

John my FWW knows how I feel about kids. I love them. I am the cool dad, everyone likes me. Kids asked to be on my son's baseball team. Any child I bring into this world will be loved and cherished.

I again go back to my FWW knowingly deceiving me.

I know my part. When the whole thing went down I was getting really upset she acted like I knew she wasn't protected.

She admitted she knew I didn't know. So it wasn't an accident.

It seems quite calculated to me. But I am having another child.

I am confused because I am actaully trying to reconcile my anger toward my FWW and the joy of having a child.

I am also having a hard time wanting to stay married at this point.

This is a pattern with her. I usually come out on the side wrong side of those choices.

I think since I will cary most if not all of the financial burdern I should have had an equal say.

Noodle THANK YOU that is exactly how I feel.

She took my choices away. She made the choice to thwart recovery. She made the choice to go the road she went. I didn't.

I chose to stay and work for my other two kids. Now she decides we are recovered and does this.

So I am unhappy with her and the decesions she makes.

I will move forward at my own rate.

Thank you all.

I really admire you, Frog. You are an honorable man and are a blessing to your family. I will pray that the Lord gives you the strength to work through this.

I DO think that you and your wife need to go to counseling to help her to understand that making unilateral decisions is hurting her marriage and family.

Hi, Frog...I don't think that I have to tell you that you are working forward a good place and handling this whole thing really great...you know this!

I was thinking about you the other day...I have a frog tattoo and it never occurred to me...I had to laugh when I looked at it and thought of you! It's purple, what color are you? LMAO

I agree with believe too...blessing to your family!

frog:

I get it. This is not an issue of a child...this is an issue of deception. Could you have done things differently, like using your own protection? I don't know - but that is not really the point, is it? Your FWW intentionally chose to deceive you to get what she wanted. She did not care one whit about your feelings on the matter.

My three children were adopted after my wife's A, but long before I found out about it. I was furious. My wife always wanted children. It was clear she got what she wanted without regard for the impact on me (if I were to have known about the A). I love my children dearly. However, I will be honest to say that their adoption simply does not mean the same thing to me as it once did. It has been diminished. And that is a really rotten feeling.

I get it. Unfortunately, I have no good advice. Just know that you are understood.

Todd

Todd,

Exactly! That is why I like this place. LOL. You guys figure out what is bothering me and tell me.

She didn't care and got what she wanted.

It has come to my attention through this process that She keeps TRYING but not Doing.

It had me think of the things I asked for and haven't received.

I laid it on the table this morning. I had committed to try to stay married if things got better.

My patience has ended on that front. She comitted me for me.

NOw I have not patience. The changes I have been patient for I am no longer patient.

So now we are on teh dawn of a new day.

Frog:

Now you are addressing the real issue in your M.

Her sense of entitlement. Her sense that she can make choices without your full informed consent.

I get this point. Got it the other day, but the other day was to celebrate.

Today, you went to work.

You have come a long way in regards to your R with W.

Where do you most need our help?

EN's?
Respect for you?
Getting her to "Get it?"

LG

LG,

Respect and her "getting it"

My OS is in IC right now. Two weeks ago he asked to see both my FWW and I for the next session.

We do not co parent well to be honest. Part of the problem as he put it "I am just a vice president." I have a title but no authority. That needed to change.

My FWW will interupt me and contradict me and over ride me with OS.

I personally accept my part but in this sitch I really have no power. I cannot make her not interupt, contradict an override me. I can ask for that change but realize I cannot make her.

So I mention that as a problem. Instead of addressing that she starts throwing DJ's and darts at me.

Well you think you are perfect, The DR. said he wanted to talk to you to about your control issue. Which by the way he never brought up to me. So I doubt he would talk to the FWW about me behind my back or I think I would fire him. LOL.

But instead of addressing what I beleive is a huge problem she throws DJ's and darts back at me.

It is diversionary and I called her out on it.

I of course with everything going on started yelling over the phone.

I fed right into her game. She wins' when I get angry.

I told her I am still waiting on her to stop interupting me and contradicting me.

It is one of the changes I asked for when we were at the first MC. She said she was trying.

I said well the days of trying need to end. Please stop interupting me and contradicting me.

Before you made this decesion I was willing to keep TRYING but now I have to commit to staying.

It takes 21 days of conscious effort to correct a bad habit.

So in 3-4 years you haven't done that. Start today.

I am tired of being interupted and talked over.

You would think she would "Get it" but she doesn't.

So I need help in those area's.

I told her today "again" if I do something that bothers you I need you to tell me. I don't want you too I need you too.

I will either tell you too bad or I will work on it. But it isn't fair for you not to tell me.

It seems you air these complaints when I have an issue with you.

I am not going to get into a pissing match where when you do something that bothers me that I can't tell you.

I can't tell you because instead of saying too bad or I will work on it you unload about How I am not perfect.

I know I am not. But it seems like you are trying to divert attention from you.

So you can keep trying but I will not be diverted any longer.

Tell me what you want to change and I will.

I told her I quit smoking when she asked. I am more affectionate like she asked.

When do I get the same effort. Of course she said it was different.

We will see.

For the first time I feel no need to try to make this better.

It will get better or not.

I realzied with this the changes I asked for were the first in a list of things I wanted to be different.

Haven't even got the first things marked off yet.

Not to mention that this is the time she started her affair.

Oh, Frog...I can just feel your frustrations and a little anger...which is completely okay...

I think that you are doing an excellent job of expressing yourself...

Have you thought about 180 again? perhaps to give yourself a break for a little while...I know that this has had an effect on her in the past and I was just asking...

How is your strenght with just the M? Are you any where close to the point that you were in Sept./Oct.? I understand that the sitch is a bit different but I really am trying to get a feel for where "YOU" are...

This independent behavior/thinking of her's is amazing...we so have to peas in a pod...then again, doesn't she go through period where she's always asking you for help making up her mind...

It seems to be that she can't find that happy middle ground...swinging from one extreme to the next...

Correct me if I'm wrong, this is just me thinking out loud! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Rin,

Thank you. This morning my Top blew off a little. I started yelling. She interupted me and tried to divert. So I started yelling that was exactly what I was talking about. LOL

I personally with everything going on doing great.

It was funny I told my Mom about it, I felt reluctant but let her know she was going to be a grandma again before her surgery. She was like OH no how are you.

I said fine.

I am somewhat in a mini 180 maybe a 90.

I am rightfully angry and upset. She wants me to be the great husband I normally am. She said she missed me.

I said well you don't chose how long I stay upset about this. I do. If you don't like it then don't do things like this.

You are right there is no happy middle ground. The thing is that she asks me about unimportant stuff. So it isn't really one extreme to the other. When she wants something she makes a decesion. That is really it. If it is something she doesn't care about she will ask.

I will see. Her time for trying is over with me.

She will do or not do. Not try.

OKAY, and what is your boundary? How will you protect yourself if she choices not too?