It was only recently that I heard about this website from a friend. Wished I had found it sooner... Here's my story.

Known my husband for 7 years, married for 3. About 2 months ago, he started an affair with his colleague. She was new to the company and happened to sit next to my husband. They started chatting and found they can talk real easily and they started taking lunches together and that eventually progressed to dinner. When he told me about it, I was alternating between hurt and anger. He volunteered to tell me the truth because he wanted to end the relationship. He told me they have not gone physical but it was enough of an affair for me. Without any knowledge from this website, I wanted him to quit and stop all contact. But he can't because our family depends on his income and he cannot afford to quit without a job. He asked me to give him some time. I agreed but asked him to at least not talk or call her anymore, especially in the office. However, as I did some snooping, I realise that he has been contacting her all the while. So I tried everything: begging him to come back, crying, giving him a cold shoulder, asking him to leave the house, threaten to leave him etc etc... He was also alternating between wanting to come back to me and wanting to carry on the affair. I will bear with him for a while till I cannot take it anymore and had a outburst. Then he will renew his promise to me to stop all contact. But after a while, he will start contacting her again. And with each cycle, he gets more and more impatient with my outbursts. Even I cannot stand myself sometimes. I have totally become the woman that I hate to become. Paranoid, unhappy, resentful and ugly.
His affair is partailly exposed. His office knew about it and thus his boss made the other woman change work station so that she no longer sits beside him. My family knew about it. I believe his is sincere about ending the affair but he does not want to lose her as a friend. He keeps telling me he only contact her to say a simple 'hi' or 'how's your day'. They both agreed that they will stop the affair so I should have nothing to worry about. Also, to show his determination, he has tendered his resignation and is actively looking for a new job. But he insists on keeping her as a normal friend.

So what do I do now? Do I trust him? But I can't get over the fact that he repeatedly lied to me... Even if the affair really ended, am I too late for any chance of recovering my marriage?

Jcool, welcome to this board although I’m sorry you need to be here. There are lots of BS's (Betrayed Spouses) around here who have been in your shoes, understands your pain and will be able to assist you with advice, support and guidance. In the meantime, underneath are 2 threads you will find helpful (just click on the links):

WAT's Quick Start Guidelines for Betrayed Spouses

Bob's Newly Betrayed Spouse MB Toolkit

Also read all the material on this website – specifically the Basic Concepts and Q & A columns on infidelity. Get hold of the books “Surviving an Affair”; “His Needs/Her Needs” and “Not Just Friends”.

Your M (Marriage) is salvageable Jcool, it’s never too late. Actually I think there is much hope for your M. Your H (Husband) has already shown a willingness to co-operate with certain things and that is a very good sign! However, you can’t and should not trust your H right now… His mindset is still wayward as far as contact with the OW (Other Woman) is concerned and he must earn back your trust.

Jcool, there is no way your H can stay friends with the OW. I’m a FWW (Former Wayward Wife) and from personal experience I can tell you that once friendship has crossed boundaries into inappropriate feelings and/or EA (Emotional Affair), there is NO turning back. If your H stays friends with the OW, he will also STAY addicted to her and your M will remain in danger. Recovery for you, your H and the M will be impossible with continuing contact. Your H needs to close the door, not even allow the door to stay slightly open. Even a platonic e-mail or phone call to/from the OW once in a while will PREVENT recovery and will make it difficult for your H to focus solely on you and the M. And even if your H is sincere in his efforts and can manage to act appropriately and platonically towards her, the inappropriate feelings for the her will still remain there underneath the surface and therefore a resumption of the A (Affair) will ALWAYS be a possibility. The only guaranteed way to overcome inappropriate feelings & attachment towards the OP (Other Person) and keep the M safe and recover it, is (NC) No Contact for life with the OP. Your H needs to write a NC-letter to OW (here are samples of NC letters - just click on the link) and make it clear to her that he can't stay friends with her or be friends with her ever again. I can’t stress this enough…it’s very important.

I really hope your H will see the light out of his fog and realize it NOT possible to stay ‘friends’ with OW… Your H’s insistence to remain friends with her is grossly disrespectful towards you and shows that he still doesn’t “get” it…that he still keep his own selfish desires and interest above yours and the M. Read what Dr Harley have to say about this:

[color:"blue"] The one having an affair is in no position to bargain, but he or she usually tries anyway. The bargaining effort usually boils down to somehow keeping the lover in the loop. You'd think that the unfaithful spouse would be so aware of his or her weaknesses, and so aware of the pain inflicted, that every effort would be made to avoid further contact with the lover as an act of thoughtfulness to the stunned spouse. But instead, the unfaithful spouse argues that the relationship was "only sexual" or was "emotional but not sexual" or some other peculiar description to prove that continued contact with the lover would be okay.

Most victimized spouses intuitively understand that all contact with a lover must end for life. Permanent separation not only helps prevent a renewal of the affair, but it is also a crucial gesture of consideration to someone who has been through he11. What victimized spouse would ever want to know that his or her spouse is seeing or communicating with a former lover at work or in some other activity?

In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure.[/color]

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html

Take care,
Suzet

Welcome. He needs to find another job, and stop having contact with her for any reason. Once the line has been crossed, they can't even be friends.

Also you can start in Plan A, showing him what a great wife you can be with no angry outbursts or disrespectful judgements. Part of Plan A is exposing the affair. If the OW is married, tell her husband. Also I would write a letter to his work, and ask for her to be transferred.

[color:"purple"] [/color] First of all, how can he believe you will ever heal from this if he continues to have this woman in his life? Feel he is meeting his needs with her and not with you. He must turn to you for those needs and stop all contact with her immediately, if he wants the marriage to work. It is not fair for him to expect you to put up with something that is causing you so much pain and ruining your relationship. Please talk to him again. There has to be some way he can disconnect from the power she hold over him. You have all that he needs and he just needs to get away from her so he can see it.

Thank you all so much for the time and effort to respond to my post. My friend told me that he has gotten much support from this group to help him get over his pain too. And he told me that I will need plenty of that after I embark on my Plan A (I just starting to read all about the basic concepts and stuff). I really do find the materials very helpful and relevant but how I wished my husband could see it with a clear mind too. I forwarded him a copy of the 'bargaining to keep the other woman in the loop' part but he tells me that his case is different. I can only pray that he is so stubborn now only because he is in the fog.

Anyway, about the no contact. My husband keeps assuring me that even if they maintain contact, they will not progress to an affair because the other woman is a victim of a home breaker too. Her own father had an affair and she hated him for it so she vowed never to be a home breaker herself. That is why when they both felt that it has progressed to an 'unnatural' state of friendship, they both decide to stop and just remains as 'friends'. But I know my husband still has feelings for her because he will text her and asked if she had lunch, dinner, wanna cup of coffee etc. Those were the times when I was struggling so much and without the help of this website. I keep telling him that without NC, his feelings will not die even if she does not respond to him. And that will prevent our marriage from reconciliation. I also told him I am very hurt and cannot heal unless he stopped caring for her. Only about 1 week ago, he suddenly decides to quit without a job to show me his determination. And he finally promised me a NC (at least for a few months) to show me that he can do it even if he has to see her in office everyday for the rest of the month (his serving period). But he asked me to give him time to forget his feelings for her which is very painful for me but I have to. So what do I do now? He promised NC and he will be out of the company by end of the month. Though he only promised NC for a few months till he gets over her and hopes to still keep her as friend in the future. I do not know how to reply him because at that time, he made it sounds so unreasonable of me to ask more than that because he has 'sacrifice' so much already. My friend told me to start on Plan A and meet all his needs. Hopefully, after he gets over her and comes out of withdrawal, he will be able to wake up from the fog and not go contacting her again. Can I trust that to happen?

What is no contact for Life? He is in a fog and is negotiating. A few months will turn into a few weeks into a few days. It is fog talk, otherwise known as garbage.

So what is so hard to understand about no contact for life?

Larry

Jcool, your WH is following the script. ALL WS’s who don’t want to cut the OP completely out of their lives and want somehow keep them in the loop believe and try to convince their BS’s that their cases are “different” and “unique” (I believed it too and tried to convinced my H). This is garbage and fog talk. Your H’s mindset is still very wayward. Don’t allow your H to try and negotiate with you on this. Make your boundary on this very clear to him – that permanent NC is nonnegotiable to you...and that you will be unable to recover and trust him again without it. Give your H some food for thought by asking him how he would feel it the roles were reversed, what his expectations and boundaries would be if he was in your shoes and you were the one who was having an A.

But they already progressed to an A! And it is not an “unnatural state” of friendship, it’s an Emotional Affair.The fact that their EA has not yet progressed to a PA doesn’t matter because it’s still an AFFAIR and an EA is just as addictive to the WS’s; damaging to the M and painful to the BS as any other type of A. And the way to overcome the addiction and recover the M is the same for ALL type of A’s whether it was EA, PA or combined EA/PA. If your H and the OW really believe that they will be able to continue contact and be strong enough to resist the EA from continuing any further, they are disillusioned, in self-denial, underestimate the power of this addiction and playing with fire (I once believed the same about myself and after I had a relapse last year, resumed the EA on e-mail and confessed past feelings of love towards the OM, I had a huge wake up call!) The fact is, your H and the OW already failed to protect their weaknesses and allowed the friendship to cross boundaries into EA. If they had really felt so serious about betrayal they would have not allowed the friendship to cross boundaries into an EA in the first place.

Just more reason your H must cut off all contact with her and for you to be adamant about it so that he can start withdrawing from her. As long as he keeps in contact with her, his feelings for her will remain and he will stay addicted to her. Your H’s resistance to NC and unwillingness to give up the “friendship”, shows the level and depth of his addiction to her.

You did the right thing by expressing your feelings about this to your H Jcool. Continue to do this and make your boundary clear (permanent NC) every time he talks fog and tries to negotiate with you on NC.

This is a good sign, also the fact that he’s actively looking for a new job. Make sure he’s keeping this up and even help him to find one if possible. Be prepared that he might come back to you and tell you that he’s going to take back his resignation. Don’t allow this.

As I said, NC must be permanent and you must make this boundary very clear to your H. You H will only start to withdraw from the OW and start getting over his feelings for her as soon as he finishes his serving period and stop ALL contact with her.

Yes, you must do plan A, but also make your boundary about permanent NC very clear to your H. State it to him calmly and without any angry outbursts that this matter is nonnegotiable. If you’re going to give in now and agree with your H’s story about NC for a few months, he will hold onto that agreement and contact her again in future – maybe only after a few weeks or day. And as soon as that happen his feelings for her will return in full force, he will start withdrawal all over again and then your M will stay at risk. Remember, your H is addicted to the A/OW and this addiction can be compared to addiction to alcohol and/or drugs. A rehabilitated alcoholic/drug user will always have that weakness for the substance they abused and that’s why they must stay away from it completely and permanently. A rehabilitated alcoholic/drug user can recover completely IF they withdraw and the stay away from the substance for life, but just one drink or one use of the drug can totally throw them back and cancel out the recovery they have achieved. The same with your H’s addiction to the OW…don’t allow him to try and convince you otherwise.

I’m a FWW and I know what I’m talking about… I thought I’ve recovered from my feelings for OM for the most part. I allowed e-mail contact on birthdays and New Year. I thought I was fine and would be able to handle this type of contact without letting it go back to an EA or without allowing any inappropriate behavior again. Just like your H, I thought I would not allow it to develop to an A again, but I was wrong. Last year after I’ve allowed deliberate contact from OM on e-mail, I had a huge relapse and the EA developed further when we confessed past feelings of love. I betrayed my H for a 2nd time (actually he felt more betrayed than the 1st time) and I was back in withdrawal. This was very painful for both of us and I don't want you and your H do go through this pain further along the way for a 2nd time. Be firm about your boundaries NOW. I'll pray that your H will see the light on this...

Edited to add:
Also read the withdrawal guide in my signature to get more information on the importance of withdrawl from the OP – specifically pay attention to the quotes from Dr Harley I’ve included on that guide.

Take care,
Suzet

Jcool, also read this this thread. Specifically pay attention to the last post on this thread (from Melodylane).

Suzet, thank you very much for your time and effort to answer to my post.

Unfortunately, I had allowed my H to 'bully' me into a few months NC 'trial' period during the times before I found out about MB. I originally wanted NC for life too. But he was very resistant and keeps bargaining. And he finally pull the trick of 'I'm willing to do so much for you but you refuse to compromise, then I'll leave you'. At that time, I was still very ignorant and very hurt to see the truth. I couldn't bear the thought of him leaving me and so I compromised. I thought that if I could at least get a few months of NC, maybe he'll get over her during that period and thus be able to salvage our marriage. But now, after reading what you've written, I came to realise that I was too navie. But how can I now turn around and told him that now I wanted NC for life? Will that give him the excuse to break his promise and go back to the A again?

Currently, I am suffering quite a bit from his withdrawal. I don't know to be happy or sad. I thought I should be happy because the withdrawal started, meaning he really had NC and thus he is missing her very much. But because of the withdrawal, he is transferring his pain to me. He will ignore me, avoid touching me, made no responses when I told him I loved him. Worse still, sometimes he will try and force a smile to stop me from asking what is wrong. I know that at this point they are probably not going to respond to whatever things we do. I keep telling myself that the withdrawal will pass but it is so hard to hang on now. I very much wanted to cry but I know I cannot do it in front of him because he will feel frustrated again. The other day, I was online talking to the friend who introduce me to this MB website and I was complaining to him how tough it is to go through Plan A. My husband saw my computer screen and got angry, saying that I should not 'announce to the world' about what happened between us. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> How do I carry on?

Jcool, you have all the right to change your mind about a decision/agreement which is very bad and unhealthy for your M – especially since your H “bullied” and manipulated you with threats into this agreement. But since your H’s mindset is so foggy, wayward, entitled and unreasonable at this stage, I can understand your fears and can see how trying to address this with him might be very problematic…

You need a plan on this Jcool. I suggest you arrange a telephone counselling session with Steve Harley to get his advice on this.

Call toll-free 1 (888) 639-1639
or
e-mail (counsel@marriagebuilders.com)

Hopefully some experienced BS’s and/or vets/pro’s will posts here soon to offer you suggestions on how to handle and/or address this “NC agreement” your H forced on you. Some might advise you to wait for a while untill you're further in plan A before you try to address this with your H again. If you've kept up with a good plan A for a few months, you might need to move to plan B if your H insists on keeping the OW as a "friend".


Yes, this is a good sign and shows that your H is having NC with her at this stage. But I can just imagine how difficult it must be for you... Be prepared that he might try to get in contact with her again soon. It’s very common for WS's to do this during early, intense withdrawal.

The above are all very common behavior for a WS in withdrawal. There is a BH posting on this board by the name Braeworth. His WW is also in withdrawal at this stage and behaves very similar to your H - very distant and cold. Currently this poster receives very good advice and insight from bOb pure and BigKahuna so I think it will be a good idea if you can read his threads.

It’s very important for you now to keep up a good plan A Jcool, but you do need a plan on how to address that agreement your H forced on you. That’s why I think it will be good if you can arrange a telephone counseling session with Steve Harley (or personal consultation with him if possible).

In the meantime Jcool, please look after yourself as best as you can. Follow a healthy diet and try to get some exercise. Try to do things you enjoy. Spoil yourself…get yourself some new clothes…or go for a new haircut…whatever will help to lift your spirit and give you a “boost”. Establish a good support system and post here often.

(((HUGS)))

May God give you strength during this difficult time…
Suzet

jcool,

There is no bargaining. If you say "no" then that is the rule, and if he breaks it, you must follow through with consequences. If he doesn't agree to NC, the first thing I would do is to tell HIS family and friends about the affair. I bet that they would "get" your idea of NC for life. If he continues, kick his a$$ out and go to plan B. He'll continue to try and manipulate you as long as you allow him to. Don't allow him to manipulate you any more.

The withdrawal symptoms are so hard to handle. He is angry at me now. For not allowing him to conact that OP at all. For not allowing them to be 'normal' friends. For all the snooping i have done. 'Now i have no privacy', he says. He told me that our marriage is not on the rocks and he does not understand why i want to put it on the rocks by not trusting him etc. I know these are typical symptoms but when they hit you on the face like this, it is really hurtful. Will these go away? I felt that now he hates me and does not even want to work on the M anymore. He keeps saying 'you have what you wanted, you wanted NC, so there is NC. now i have no friends and feel miserable. but it's ok, so long as YOU ARE HAPPY.' How do i respond to that? I am really at a loss. I wanted to give him space and do things on my own but i worry that this will continue and we will start to live separate lives... Please give me some advice. I am really lost here... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

Jcool,

I don’t have much time now, but here are a few suggestions:

1. Continue with plan A. No angry outbursts. Read up on plan A as much as you can. Read Pepperband's thread on The Carrot and the Stick of plan A[/b] (click on the link). Also search and read Ark^’s posts on Plan A. You will need to move to plan B later on if your H persist with his current attitude of blaming you and keep the OW as a "friend". The success of plan B will depend on how successfull you've applied plan A. That's why it's so very important to concentrate on a good plan A right now.

2. Also focus on yourself as I’ve indicated at the end of my previous post (this is also part of plan A). Try not to take any of the hurtful things that’s coming out of your H’s mouth right now serious – he has an entitled and wayward mindset at the moment and is totally in the fog. What he is doing right now is called “fogbabble”. You can learn how to cope with this by “babbling back” at your H (Reverse Babble) Orchid have a very good thread on this [b]HERE (click on the link). If you want to, make a call-out to Orchid and ask her to help you with this for your specific situation.

3. If the OW is married, expose to her H if you have not yet done so. As soon as your H contacts the OW again, also expose to others like his family, close friends etc. Exposure is also part of plan A.

4. Set up a telephone counseling session with Steve Harley if you can to help develop a plan (check out my previous post for details).

5. Search out experienced posters like Pepperband, Ark^, Orchid, MelodyLane, Star*fish, bOb pure*, ForeverHers, Just Learning etc. to guide you and help assisting with help & advice (make a call out to them if you want to).

Take care,
Suzet

He is an addict who is pissed you took away his crack pipe. He thinks by lashing out at you because you are enforcing NC that you'll let him contact her because he'll make your life he11 if you don't. Don't let him manipulate you. He is showing passive-aggressive tendancies. You need to lovingly detach and just be teflon and let everything hurtful he says to you just slide off your back. After all, you know that this is not your husband, rather an addict just trying to get his fix. Your real H will return if NC is upheld for 6 months.

My guess: he'll still try and get around NC anyway, but now you are going to make him work for it, and he doesn't like it. You need to continue to snoop and expose if you find any further contact.

Jcool,

Do you still lurk here? You are very quiet and I'm wondering how it's going with you... Please post.

Suzet