OK I just ordered his needs her needs...any other books that might be helpful let me know....

Fall in Love, Stay in Love is very good and I think would help you. But the MOST EFFECTIVE thing you can order, IMO, is Dr. Harleys DVD that outlines his basics. I don't know why, but even after reading all the books, just hearing his seminar on DVD made all the difference. My sister says the same thing. It makes everything fit into place. It costs about $10 and
I found it very worthwhile. http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi6020_basicsdvd.html

Thank You Melody ....you have been so helpful to me..and you would be proud of me today......i have been sweet as pie to my husband <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{GABIE}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}

I know you want to kill the man, so I am MOST PROUD OF YOU!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Husband calls me to tell me his company picnic is coming up...can he sign us up to go...fun for the kids.whatever..I said sure...i have a sick feeling in my stomach i wanted to say ****** no you a hole after you having hanging out with her...totally humiliating me.....behind my back and who knows what the real truth is behind it all because your a liar!!!!!!! I know I have to come to terms with not ever really knowing what happened or didnt happen between them but....how am am going to go to this picnic and be around her.........

OH NO YOU DON'T. You do not and will not come to terms with any secrets being withheld from you. you have a RIGHT to know what has happened here because this is information about YOUR LIFE. If something DID happen, it would be CRUEL to expose you to the OW with her knowing information about your life to which you are not privy.

So, here is how I think you should handle this, gabie. I want you to explain to him that you know you have not been a good wife in the past and have not made him happy. For that you are sorry and are willing to change. In order for your marriage to recover, there must be radical honesty. It would not be right to expose you to his secretary without knowing exactly what has transpired here. You can deal with the truth, but you cannot deal with what has been withheld from you. Then hand him this article and ask him to think about it:

"To Whomever,

"I know you are feeling the pain of guilt and confusion. I understand that you wish all this never happened and that you wish it would just go away. I can even believe that you truly love me and that your indiscretion hurts you emotionally much the same way it hurts me. I understand your apprehension to me discovering little by little, everything that led up to your indiscretion, everything that happened that night, and everything that happened afterwards. I understand. No one wants to have a mistake or misjudgment thrown in his or her face repeatedly. No one wants to be forced to "look" at the thing that caused all their pain over and over again. I can actually see, that through your eyes, you are viewing this whole thing as something that just needs to go away, something that is over, that he/she doesn't mean anything to you, so why is it such a big issue? I can understand you wondering why I torture myself with this continuously, and thinking, doesn't he/she know by now that I love him/her? I can see how you can feel this way and how frustrating it must be. But for the remainder of this letter I'm going to ask you to view my reality through my eyes.

"You were there. There is no detail left out from your point of view. Like a puzzle, you have all the pieces and you are able to reconstruct them and be able to understand the whole picture, the whole message, or the whole meaning. You know exactly what that picture is and what it means to you and if it can effect your life and whether or not it continues to stir your feelings. You have the pieces, the tools, and the knowledge. You can move through your life with 100% of the picture you compiled. If you have any doubts, then at least you're carrying all the information in your mind and you can use it to derive conclusions or answers to your doubts or question. You carry all the "STUFF" to figure out OUR reality. There isn't really any information, or pieces to the puzzle that you don't have.

"Now let's enter my reality. Let's both agree that this affects our lives equally. The outcome no matter what it is well affect us both. Our future and our present circumstances are every bit as important to me as it is to you. So, why then is it okay for me to be left in the dark? Do I not deserve to know as much about the night that nearly destroyed our relationship as you do? Just like you, I am also able to discern the meaning of certain particulars and innuendoes of that night and just like you, I deserve to be given the opportunity to understand what nearly brought our relationship down. To assume that I can move forward and accept everything at face value is unrealistic and unless we stop thinking unrealistically I doubt our lives well ever "feel" complete. You have given me a puzzle. It is a 1000 piece puzzle and 400 random pieces are missing. You expect me to assemble the puzzle without the benefit of looking at the picture on the box. You expect me to be able to discern what I am looking at and to appreciate it in the same context as you. You want me to be as comfortable with what I see in the picture as you are. When I ask if there was a tree in such and such area of the picture you tell me don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask whether there were any animals in my puzzle you say don't worry about it, it's not important. When I ask if there was a lake in that big empty spot in my puzzle you say, what's the difference, it's not important. Then later when I'm expected to "understand" the picture in my puzzle you fail to understand my disorientation and confusion. You expect me to feel the same way about the picture as you do but deny me the same view as you. When I express this problem you feel compelled to admonish me for not understanding it, for not seeing it the way you see it. You wonder why I can't just accept whatever you chose to describe to me about the picture and then be able to feel the same way you feel about it.

"So, you want me to be okay with everything. You think you deserve to know and I deserve to wonder. You may honestly feel that the whole picture, everything that happened is insignificant because in your heart you know it was a mistake and wish it never happened. But how can I know that? Faith? Because you told me so? Would you have faith if the tables were turned? Don't you understand that I want to believe you completely? But how can I? I can never know what is truly in your mind and heart. I can only observe you actions, and what information I have acquired and slowly, over time rebuild my faith in your feelings. I truly wish it were easier.

"So, there it is, as best as I can put it. That is why I ask questions. That is where my need to know is derived from. And that is why it is unfair for you to think that we can effectively move forward and unfair for you to accuse me of dwelling on the past. My need to know stems from my desire to hold our world together. It doesn't come from jealousy, it doesn't come from spitefulness, and it doesn't come from a desire to make you suffer. It comes from the fact that I love you. Why else would I put myself through this? Wouldn't it be easier for me to walk away? Wouldn't it be easier to consider our relationship a bad mistake in my life and to move on to better horizons? Of course it would, but I can't and the reason I can't is because I love you and that reason in itself makes all the difference in the world."

(end of Joseph's Letter)

p.s. and congrats for not jumping his [censored]! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

i sat dowm with h tonight and asked him to be truthful me about anything that had transpired with his receptionist...he stated nothing had happened between them other than the one phone call to her 1 month ago on a wennkend day ....for movies times...and when he went to his friends house to talk she showed up also...he stated no details about our marriage were ever given to her. His friend and her are running buddies and they go out alot together bars mostly...I told him that calling her even sitting around at work talking to her will give a woman mixed signal of a mans intention...he stated as of the past week he understood what I was talking to him about and has not made any attempt to make converstion with or be in her company...i stayed very calm no accusations just concern that with our marriage being in such a delicate state...we really do not need any outside influences...my h stated his purpose of seperating from me did not stem from wanting another woman ...but for me to be the wife that he needs...so i guess i have to try and believe what he says i have no proof to the contrary...if i dont move past this it will comsume me with wondering what he did... and I think we.. no I have more important things to deal with in this relationship ...until there is proof or other weird behavior comes up...what do you do?

well, there is not anything more important if it is an affair, gabie. And I think there has been at the least an emotional affair. I would keep your eyes peeled and quietly check everything. Check his cell phone bill, his mileage, everything and watch your back. If it is an affair, he will get sloppy and make a mistake. But, it is unrealistic to expect him to tell you if it is an affair. You can EXPECT him to lie.

So, my advice is to go forward with the MB program and learn how to meet each others needs, but check everything.

Have yall taken the questionaires on this website to get some insight into each others emotional needs?

your absolutely right...my eyes are wide open now ...just going to be discreet about it

you know what gets to me the most thru this...is h is happy go lucky now..tells me how happy he is now were able to communicate without the fighting and how much he loves me...blah blah blah...as I sit there and have this big plastic smile on my face....when I know in my gut something transpired with his receptionist maybe not sexually but there was something there...it just leaves me with a sick feeling in my stomach...my emotions change from one minute to the other and its as if I am a walking zombie...I feel like now I am waiting for the other shoe to drop....because i feel i have to be a watch dog now...secretly of course...you know i have a 15 yr old son that i have to watch dog...you shouldnt have to with your h. It is so hard to being the loving sweet, kind wife I should and I am being right now when I feel the opposite..

G8:

About this:




Then stop.

And your marriage will end.

Problem solved, right?

Not Quite That Easy is it?


What really got me here today was something you posted on Bugs' thread:


You THINK that he is?

No. He isn't. His EA? Isn't about you. It's about HIM. And HER. YOU are so outside the realm of that that YOU are insignificant.

Really. Yes, he did talk to her about you. It was part of the start of the conversation. But it left there quickly.

Because then they would talk about all the fun things.

Like you stopped doing.

With you, it developed into: "Kids, Money, Broken House, H not doing what I WANT, Or HOW I WANT it, Get a Raise yet?, etc, etc."

OW? She asked what he would like to do next month, next year. And then listened. "Wow, that would be so cool!" OW would reply. G8 would have said? "That's stupid, too expensive, you will get killed, why would you want to do that?"


See the difference?

The EA isn't about you. Your M is about YOU and HIM.

He's "Happy go Lucky?" Good. Because for some reason, he feels that he is fianally speaking to you as some sort of equal.

Does he need to do more?

Yes.

Does he need to know what an EA is and the differences between infidelity/PA/EA and it not just having sex with someone outside of the M? Yes.

Does he have to get to a safe spot with you so that he can talk to you about what happened during this time? Oh, YES, and only you can control that.

Anger? Oh YES, you can have that. But learn how to deal with it.

Please reread Bugs's thread. From the beginning. And learn from it. Is Bugs putting herself out there? Yes. And she appears to be winning. But HER WH was out of the house and OVER. Yours is still on the fence. And Bugs? When her WH returns to the house and commits to working on the M? Then the real work begins.

For BOTH of them. Bugs has a head start, she has been here at MB for a while now. You have that benefit as well. Do not squander this resource.

Remember what Plan A is. Integrate it into how you are going to deal with everyone going forward, even your children. Yes, it does apply.

And if your not interested in doing that, then we know what will happen.

And you can choose to do that as well.

OK?

Also. What happened in your first M? What was the courtship like when you met your current H? Any contact with the 1st H?

LG

I know it was not all about me...i was just venting frustrations...as I do not vent to husband or around my children...I am trying to make my home enviroment calm and less tense between h and I. As far as my first marriage I was 19 had a baby by 20 and we just were too immature to deal with it all....My ex and I share a 15 yr old son we are extremely proud of and we maintain a good relationship...here i feel i can let it all loose and say what i feel right or wrong...and be put in my place from time to time..my emotions are all over the place...but I am trying to be consistant with h and not just bombard him constantly with accustatons..we talked and I have to move on..if it is going to work and not keep rehashing it...thats why I come here to unload all my negative feelings...so then i can get back to the task at hand....as far as my children...my son has some idea that there are problems between h and I but I just cont. to reassure him everything will be fine...i think i focus so much om my children and all their activities...and I do have a 15 son...who is giving me a run for my money...that i put my marriage last...whch i know now was terribly wrong...but hind sight is 20/20

G8,

Just trying to catch up w/you since your post to me.

You are getting some of the BEST advice from some of the BEST around!
ML, Ark, LG are very wise. LISTEN to what they are telling you!

(Sorry if I missed anyone, I haven't read the entire thread!)

I learn something new here every day. I learn something about myself every day. It is part of the process.

Read, listen, learn, change, or don't. It is up to you. You have a great opportunity to build a NEW BETTER marriage with your H, if you want.

Remember, it takes one of you to start. You H chose the wrong way to try to bring about change and it hurt you. But he wants change with YOU or he would not be home.

So, do you want change with HIM? If so, then you start with yourself because that is all you can really control.

Hang in there!

Thabk You...ML, Arc, LG, Orchid, MR ondering, Larry Bugsmom.....you have all given me such needed advive,,,it has really opened my eyes alot...really implementing Plan A....it has calmed me....ita almost a kind of theraphy in controlling my emotions...I had one converstation a few days ago with husband about everthing that transpired between him and receptionist...as I have posted earlier. Since then I have not brought it up. I am still watching for strange behavior..or calls...but I have stopped the accusations. To keep rehashing it and rehashing it just drains the life from me...I love this man...but i think somewhere along the line we lost touch with each other...and just focused on our kids...now I realize that when that connection....is gone.....this is where your marriage will end up at...That saddens me to think how I let it go this far...because he is such a good man, excellent father to his daughter and my step son...wonderful provider ...he is a giver in every sense of the word.....until he had nothing left to give...that makes me sad for him too.....but i think were on our way to some progress...baby steps and one day at a time.......

Well I just received His Needs/ Her Needs in the mail this morning. So off to do some reading ..Im excited.

Have fun!

Well I have read His Needs Her Needs...wow what a wake up call. I saw my mistakes all thoughtout that book...so I finally get it ...am realy implementing plan a....its not about my h its about being the best me/wife I can be...we took the EN quiz it was amazing how different our needs are...h at first was a reluctant participant...but he was a good trooper about it...I am sure we have a rocky road ahead of us but I understand my part in all of this more clearly now...my #1 priority is to try and meet his En as now I know what they are....and reallt try to show him what a loving wife I can be. ML...I think I got it!!!!!! TY sooo much.....

G8 -

Perfect! Makes perfect sense doesn't?

Glad your H is participating.

What, if anything has he had to day about it?

Thank You Bugs....you know its not so much in what he is saying....but more in our actions toward one another...if that makes sense. I think what happened with us..over a long period of time..was that everything else became more important than our relationship...we both work...I'm tired ..cleaning...laundry... always juggling kids...their activities..plus my son is turning 15 and over the past year has turned into an alien. We just fell into a rut of not communicating or when he did try to talk to me about how he felt ALONE in our marriage...i just never wanted to deal with it ...i didnt take him seriously i thought he's not going anywhere...boy was i wrong. This whole process has been such an eye opener for me...It made me wake up to what I was about to loose...this man is my rock....my best friend the one who i turn to for everything. It makes me think of that old saying " We do not appreciate something until we loose it". In my heart I am at peace with him..regardless of what he did...I love him...he his MY husband and I want to make him happy....