My WW works part tinme at a post office!

The counselung was church based counseling for me to get my bearings straight.

I plan to get the Steve H phone counseling next week when I decide to take the entire week off from work.

Q: Do you try to meet WWs ENs while in Plan A or just self improve? For instance, when in plan A and trying to meet my WWs greatest need (AFFECTION) -- Is it even possible to do this? Don't want to appear clingy or doormat material.

swade, Plan A is not intended to be a self improvement program, it just means that you try to be the best spouse you can be by meeting needs and avoiding lovebusters. i suppose you could say that is a self improvement program, but the goal is just to show your spouse that you are WILLING to meet her needs.

If the affair does not end, you will have no choice but to seperate. Will she able to support herself? I would explain that your marriage cannot accommodate 3 people and that you cannot exist like this. Is she prepared to move out and get a room in a boarding house and support herself? Becuase that is where this is leading. I would make it clear to her that she will have to support herself and find new digs if this does not change.

Do you know of any local boarding houses for ladies where she could go?

ML -- I do not know of any places she could go!

Knowing my WW, financial support is in her top 5 ENs.

Since I take care if the entire household (WW works for spending money only) I suppose I hold the upper hand if I was to ask her to leave if she does not break contact with OM.

I thought I had to execute plan A for at leat 2-3 months (I must admit, that's long even for me). I've only used it for a week.


I need to see how my patience wears thin.

swade, the goal here is to let her know what lies in the future if her affair does not end. She believes she can go along forever and you will continue to support her while she has an affair WITH NO CONSEQUENCES. NOT SO!! If it does not end, you will then be getting seperated and she will have to move out.

Start explaining to her what lies in her future if her affair does not end. let her know it would be so tragic if she had to move out and get a REAL JOB and support herself. Of course, she could not afford to support the kids so they would have to stay with you. BUT, she could get visitation!

just let her know what her future looks like. in a NICE WAY, of course. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Perhaps she could find a by-the-week hotel room close to the post office?

Put it this way: you know that you cannot live in a marriage that includes 3 people. Since she cannot afford the mortgage and the bills, you would stay with the house and she would need to move out and support herself. And that is only fair since she is the one in the affair.

You are right!

I have been holding her accountable!

I even followed her to the gym tonight and waited until she left! She even provided me receipts when I asked her if she took a detour on the way home!

The next cell phone bill will validate whether she has had contact or not!

I have been following her or plan to have someone else follow her to ensure NO PERSONAL VISITS by the OM.

IMHO, all this spy stuff creates a lot of work for you of which you will soon tire. Instead of keeping her accountable it will make you angry.

So what t/d? Better for her to provide you with proof of her recovery by meeting your needs and working on regaining your trust in her.

Recovery requires more work from the Xws than the BS. After a good plan A, the BS knows where they stand and stay planted there. It is up to the WS to catch up. The BS should NEVER take steps backwards to accommodate the WS.

JMHO,
L.

Works at the post office? That means she has access to automatic weapons. Be careful.

Orchid,

You are right! The spy stuff is mentally taxing!

She will meet with one of my exposure contacts for lunch today (her highly respected GF). My WW dreads the meeting!

I am working a good plan A. For my own comfort we do spend plenty of time together talking, sharing feelings.

I need to be on guard espoecially on weekends since I know the OM works as a 6th grade math teacher during the week!
So, whether WW reciprocates meeting my needs, I at least know where she is and what she is doing!

Piojitos -- I strip search her for weapons before she comes into the house! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Swade, you are getting excellent, excellent advice on this thread.

As an FWW I can tell you that what everyone is saying is absolutely correct. Pio is so on the money with how a WW reacts to the hearts and flowers type Plan A. It just doesn't work on a WW. Everyone, I have to say, your posts have been extraordinarily good. That shouldn't surprise me but this should be a sticky post.

Swade, you are also doing really well. Lem says some people don't get it and they don't get that they don't get it.

You get it and you get that you get it. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks KiwiJ for the encouragement!

I just need to stike a balance to be a "good companion" as Pio said instead of trying to be a "romantic".

She is now at lunch getting her "exposure" talk from her GF.

I called ahead and told the GF to call me when they leave from lunch. I also told my before she left home to call me as well.


Thanks ML, Pio, KiwiJ, and Lem for your continued advice and support!

I have been reading your comments about surveillance and I haven't wanted to say too much. But it bothers me. It bothers me because I went down this road and Orchid is right. Technology is amazing these days. I guess you probably have your WW on real-time GPS tracking by now. The question I want to ask you is why you are doing all this?

You already know your WW had an A. You already know who with. You already know she is still in the A. You live in CA so no matter how much dirt you dig up, it won't help you in a divorce. So what benefit do you derive from this 24/7 vigilence? If you can tell me that there is a practical benefit, by all means keep it up. But I just don't see any purpose.

If you are doing this to see if your WW is stopping the A, then quit. Quit before it becomes an obsession. If I were in your shoes (been there), I would maintain heightened awareness but I would also assume the WW was still in the A until she proved to me that she wasn't. WW is guilty until proven innocent. It is not your job now nor should it ever be a husband's job to prove that his wife is not having an A. It is WW's responsibility to prove to YOU that she is not having the A. Right now she probably isn't interested in doing that. Why? Because she's still having the A. But when this A does stop and she gets to the point where she does want to regain your trust, I'm betting she will be very aggressive in trying to prove her innocence.

I have had several incidents over the past six months that are well enough documented on the TKO thread. My WW repeatedly tells me I should have her followed to prove she is being faithful. I always tell her I would divorce her before I would do that. If I'm going to live in paranoid fear that my wife is having an A, I need a new wife.

Early on surveillance was good. I got all the facts I needed. Now my WW goes out of her way to be transparent. I don't need to prove anything - that is her responsibility.

bwhahahaaa <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

Pio,

In fact, there is no 24/7 surveillance at all, no GPS, no computer tools.

I just went out yesterday for the first time -- I must say that it did not feel good to do that!

Damn dude, you always make some good sense! You are right, I will destroy myself trying to play "Jack Bauer" on 24.

Just work plan A within my timeline and we'll see what happens!

The GF seemed encouraged today when she spoke to my WW? She said that my WW was quite receptive to whatever she told her. Well, the proof is in the behavior - we'll see!

Well I have been in the situation where I was unsure if the A was still active or not. I guess I spent about 6 months in that state. That was difficult in and of itself. At times I thought the A was over but I worried about it day and night. Other times I thought the A was still ongoing and I seethed. So I have gone both ways. Although it is not without its downside, between the teo POV's, I believe it is generally better for your mental health to simply assume the A is still on.

By doing that, you may have to deal with some anger from time to time but the big advantage to it is that you aren't jumping all over the place and your emotions will be much more stable. It will keep you on your plan and your path more effectively.

Eventually WW will be the one to prove to you that the A is over and, if it is, she will really want to.

Everything in your 2-3 month Plan A right now depends on your mental attitude. You need to find what works best for you. I experimented. I think it paid off.

I wanted to add...

When you live every day adopting the attitude that your WW is still engaged in her A with OM, you are lovebusting yourself. While I found this attitude to be a stabilizing force in my sitch, I also found it slowly but progressively killed my love for WW. Of course, I did the Plan A thing for about a year. I do think I got through the first 2-3 months with a great deal of love left for WW.

Remember that Plan A only works about 15% of the time but, in order for your Plan B to be effective, should you need it, you have to go into Plan B after a great Plan A. So while Plan A may not bring WW back to the M by itself, it is a critical ingredient.

All of your exposure brings tremendous pressure on the affairees. It won't be long before they crack under the stress. In a sense, this can be a good thing and aid future recovery. While none of us wants our spouse in an A, if they are in the A and that A gets cut off quickly, the unrequieted love will haunt WW's withdrawal. OTOH, if they do have contact and the A goes south, WW and OM will end up pretty much despising each other.

Don't get me wrong. NC is definitely what you want. But there are positives to even the most negative aspects of this mess.

WW arrived home from work ticked off at me because another family member found out about the A situation! She is especially upset because I did not notify her (WW) inadvance who I told!

WW left home frustrated to "run some errands." I simply told her "I care" and walked away to avoid a confrontation!

I DID NOT apologize though! We plan to do something fun as a family tomorrow to lighten the day!

WW has said she has been in NC for the last 4 days (although she would not agree to write an NC letter).

Meanwhile, I am continuing to implement Plan A!

liars lie



[color:"red"] EGG ZAK LEE [/color]

Pepperband,

I agree with ya'! Tell me, if I am suppose to try to meet my WWs ENs during my exeution of plan A, AND her greatest ENs happen to be affection and converstaion -- what possible affection could I show her without repulsing her!

My WW already told me that she has had thoughts of "being in the OMs camp" but she said absolutely NO.

She also told me I have absoultely nothing to worry about in terms of her leaving me..... (I said as long as you break ties with OM. this is a 2 person marriage, not 3).

Don't make me come over there.

Forget about affection.

Friendship.

Start conversations sometimes. If she is willing, continue.

You say one of her top EN's is conversation. Try being silent. Let her make the first move.

You cannot make your WW love you. Yes EN's are important in filling the lovebank but I have always believed Harley's principles are more complicated than just you playing seesaw with OM. He just tries to explain it on simple terms so idiots like you and me can understand.

Just by avoiding LB's, the seesaw is tipping toward you. If your WW likes conversation, take the opportunity when you two are around others and you be the center of conversation. That will really get her attention.

I just to tried to start conversations with my WW because our MC told me to. WW got to the point where she told me and MC that she had absolutely nothing she wanted to say to me.

Your WW DOES NOT WANT you to meet her EN's right now.

I now this is twisted but your WW, by letting you meet her EN's, feels she is betraying her OM. I know that is bizarre but you need to let her grieve the loss of the A. Don't force things.

You two are like two magnetic south poles right now. The closer you get to her, the more you are going to push her away. Now, remember that seesaw. What do you think you will have to do to the seesaw if you push your WW further away from you? Ever study physics? I have the answer if you didn't.

Small steps.

On that seesaw, you inch your way to WW. She will inch her way toward you. Then you inch. Then she inches. With time, you two will meet in the middle. The seesaw will be balanced. Then, if you remember playground physics, no matter how much either one tries to shift, the seesaw won't really move. You will have a marriage in balance. It takes time.