Oh puhleeezzz.

What have I said before that people told me so many times before? Don't listen to the words - watch the actions.

I can think of a dozen reasons why she won't say she loves you and 11 of them means she loves you. If she didn't love you on some level, she would be out the door. She doesn't feel like she is in love with you. But love and being in love aren't the same thing. Reality check.

I'm glad you're not here or I'd b*tch slap you.

Pio (I knew you'd dive in here),

Let me ask you -- should I refrain from saying it to her at this point???

I do not say it to her as some kind of check "to see what her response will be".

My main concern is -- I don't want to sound needy, or feel like I am crowding her -- that's all!!!

I don't have a good answer for this. You don't have to tell her ILY for her to know it. I went for over a year without saying ILY. We still don't say it very often although it is becoming more frequent.

To be honest, I think just telling her you are happy she decided to stay in the marriage has a lot more meaning than ILY.

Whatever you tell her, tell her because it is what you really mean and you don't expect any response. Your post indicates that you are still very impatient and upset that you don't get a response.

Give it time.

Oh, and go watch Bruce Almighty two or three more times. I think you missed the point of the exercise.

I would like to find out if WW is enforcing NC with OM given that OM is done teaching for the school year!

Simply asking her -- she will always say no!

Again her A had been ongoing for 1 month before D-day!

She only exhibited the withdrawal symptoms for a couple of days!

Her attitude seems upbeat for someone who has been in an NC status for 1 week!

I may have to go to the "PI card" to really see what is going on.

Pio, any objections??? I am still doing my plan A!

Actually PI is the smartest way to go. I say this because if you try to do any snooping yourself, you are going to drive yourself crazy as you were doing earlier. Let the PI do the dirty work. They can snoop better than you too.

Getting back to the ILY, I was thinking more about that. People are generally insecure. Caught waywards and new BS's are especially insecure. You, for example, are desperate to know how WW feels about you. Forget about it. Wasted energy. But WW is also insecure. She not only has her own feelings to deal with but also worry about what you feel since she knows there is no way you could love her after what she did to you. On top of that, she has her own experience to draw from.

I know my WW listened to every word I said even when I thought she wasn't. So I had a thought (and WW and I actually did this). Every once in a while, I would sit down with WW and tell her I wanted to talk. I wanted to say something and I wanted her to just listen and, when I was finished, I didn't want her to say anything. At those times, I would tell her how I was feeling including the ILY at times. I told her I was doing that just so she would not have to stress about how I was feeling. I don't know if it helped her but I always felt better afterward.

Now back to chipper WW. You are concerned that she is too perky and that makes you think she is in contact. Could be. OTOH, how is she responding to you? Is she cold and distant toward you or trying to warm up to you? Go ahead and hire the PI. It is an LB if she finds out just so you are pepared. I also had a WW who didn't seem to be too distraught and suffering like I thought she should. What I couldn't see is that she was perky and positive when I was around but when I was at work all day she would curl up in the fetal position in the closet and cry for 8 hours. She wouldn't let me see her suffering because she thought it would hurt me. As is documented in my thread, this rather serious miscommunication probably did more harm than good.

It did harm because she was not being honest with me.

Pio,

My WW does not respond to me in a cold and distant fashion -- we talk, laugh sometimes as we watch and talk about comedy shows (I try to fill her EN for conversation (#2 on her list - affection is #1).

At night, she caresses me and I reciprocate.

I like your sit down and talk approach -- In mine, I would tell her that I am here for her and I care for her a great deal, but there is no room for the 3 of us in this marriage ever and I will never be amenable to this arrangement (for instance, I don't expect her to keep OM as a friend when he returns from summer vacation! (WHAT DO YOU THINK ?)

Of course, I will not discuss this tonight on our date -- just want to have a good time!

In my twisted mind, I view her as a cake-eating WW who has the best of both worlds at this point -- that is my gut impression at this point!

Anyway gotta get ready to go out later!

By the way, WW has not arrived home from work yet -- kinda late tonight(?)

The PI will be on the case tomorrow afternoon!

Friday night and she's kinda late home.

Boundaries, Swade. FWIW, after d-day I kept my H informed of my EVERY movement. If I was held up at work even for 5 minutes I would call him and tell him that I would be 5 minutes late home.

Do you think your WW is thinking that because it was "only" kissing that it wasn't an A?

Good



Bad

Look dude. I think you WW has already figured this out. You don't need to keep beating her over the head with it. I don't think she is going to stay in touch with OM and, when you catch her on it, reply "but you never said I couldn't have a boyfriend!".

Why turn a good moment into an instant LB? She knows the A was wrong. She may not have decided what she is going to do about it but I am certain she ias not planning a life for the three of you. Your mission right now is to make certain the OM is the one who is going to be left out in the cold rather than you. How are you going to accomplish that? Not by non-stop LB's.



Betrayal will do that to you. Just remember that you have to deny yourself many things in this process you're in. Unless you have solid proof, shut your mouth.

KiwiJ,

My WW does believe that it was not adultery because there was no SF!

Some rationalization!

Now I was a WS before so she always compared hers to mine to justify her actions! "Hers was not bad as mine" is her thought process!

I thought that was the case.

There's a very good definition of an EA around here somewhere but I'd have to look for it.

Basically, it says if it's something you wouldn't do if your spouse was watching over your shoulder it's an EA.

I sense a very large dose of entitlement on her part. I don't make any distinctions between A's that are "revenge" A's and "other" A's. They're both just A's. A WS is a WS is a WS.

Anyway, have a great date night. I hope it goes well for you.

swade,

Just remember that every time you start something nice, don't continue it with a "BUT".

I'm here for you BUT you can't continue your A.

I love you BUT you need to make me trust you.

In other words, stop being such a big BUT.

Got it --

I and the W are about to step out for a dinner date!

I will stay positive tonight!!!

Its going to be a good night because I am determined to make it so!

Whoa! Stop the bus! All you can do is do your best. You cannot control the night and cannot control WW. If things don't turn out great, don't get angry (and I know you will anyway). So keep your expectations low. I know you already have this passionate kiss planned. What if it doesn't happen? Don't force things. Deal with them as they come.

Pio,

What I meant was -- I will control my reactions!

You are too funny -- "you know I will get angry anyway!"

Things were cool last night! Had a great dinner!

I stayed away from the passionate kiss and opted for the little pecks (seem to be safer and non-threatening at this point).

pecks...massage...???

Okay I'm just totally lost now. Who are you again?

LOL Pio.

Y'know I said passionate kiss in a dark doorway for a reason.

Men!! That means you too, Pio.

Swade, your WW has had a "kissing" A. I wanted you to take charge and show her you were just as exciting, if not more so, than the OM. Taking her by surprise and showing you're not just the "husband" is also important now. My H did just that - showed he was a man who meant business. It was one of the major things he did that brought me back.

Obviously swade refuses to follow sound advice. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

LMAO

O.K. you two!

Kiwi -- I got your point!

Pio just like bustin my chops for recreation!

KiwiJ,

Tell ya what -- I 'll save it for Father's Day!

The gift I wanted is to hang out with her anyway!