Swade, I just saw you addressed a question to me.

Hmmm, how far into Plan A before the scales fell from my eyes? I was also trying very hard to recover my M so it was my H's Plan A and my own efforts (and talking to people here) that brought us together. I was in particularly bad withdrawal. It went for months and it was the cause of a great deal of pain for my H and for me (because I didn't want to be in withdrawal, I just wanted it to be over and ditto for my H - he wanted the same).

Yes, my H did tell me he loved me. I couldn't say it back. One day he said "You're MY woman, no one else gets you." and laughed and I laughed too. My H is very liberal and doesn't see me as his property or "belonging" to him, so it was quite something for him to say that. It was all those little things that made me see him as the exciting man I married.

I agree with Lake, SF in SF.

(May be the taker in me)

Given that I am in plan A:

If I find that the WW has broken NC -- shouldn't I call her on it and re-establish new BCs or just continue plan A and don't say anything?

I simply want her to know that no real R will take place until NC has been maintained!

In fact, she's been out for a while now tonight and she has used her cell phone onece she left the house -- OKAY, she could have just called a friend!

Also would I be "punishing" her if I found out that NC has been broken, I delayed her $$$ cosmetic surgery until we see where we are headed? Why invest the $$$ into cosmetics when the M is more important at this point!

Okay bring out the bats and "beat me up"!

Can I simply ask WW if she has maintained NC?

I just want to confirm her telling the truth which I will confirm through cell records or whether she is still being deceptive?

Am I being stricken with the "impatient" flu again?

If she is breaking contact, what is your response? Are you willing to go to Plan B? How will you prove the contact? If you have proof then I don't think you can let it go. I've done both. If in doubt, I always remember Pavlov's dog.

So what is your plan for contact? How far are you willing to go? Don't ever threaten unless you intend to back it up.

Personally I wouldn't spend my money on cosmetic surgery for a woman who I may not be with long term. My WW also wanted surgery. Lipo I think it was. I told her that I was sorry and didn't want to hurt her but I just felt it wasn't logical to spend my money for her considering that she might well leave me at any time. Of course I did that in as non-LBish a way as possible. Oddly, the surgery has never come up again.

I like your thinking on the cosmetic surgery!

She wants to get it done fairly quickly too -- like by the end of next week!

I know it would be financially devastating to her if I asked her to leave since I pay ALL of the bills. She simply works for spending money only!

I would be inclined to ask her to leave if she continues to insist that "she will not follow any BCs" and do as she pleases!

Maybe she needs the shock treatment of plan B!

I admit I have only been doing plan A for a month (come next week).

So that is a short time period, but what if WW wants to continue "doing her own thing".

Do I just let the A continue while maintaining plan A for another couple months and then break out the plan B (which would have more effect after a good, reasonable plan A)?

I wouldn't continue Plan A if she is openly conducting the A under your nose. My WW covered her tracks pretty well. In my case, her A was limited to LD phone calls so I was somewhat flexible. I was advised by Bigger one time to simply ignore a discovered contact and continue my Plan A.

How do you feel your Plan A is doing? One month isn't very long but yours seems to be going well. I would also want to factor in any progress I was seeing from WW. Are you seeing positive movement?

Plan B was difficult for me due to location but risky in terms of attitude. If she had run off with OM for 6 months, there is no way I would have ever taken her back.

Breaking NC would have been a deal breaker for my H. I don't know if I told you that my A had been over 6 months when my H found out. Who knows what would have happened if he'd found out during the A. I prefer not to think about that.

Personally, I'd ask her straight out if she's in NC, but that's just me. It probably isn't part of Plan A to do that.

Plan A does NOT mean putting up with anything. She must NEVER get the impression she can carry on doing whatever it is she is doing because you'll just roll over and accept it.

I'm going to suggest you don't do that. If she is in NC, it's an LB. If she's not in NC, she'll lie.

I swear to you the answer will be "yes". Waste of time.

If you feel the need to ask, ask specific things. For example: "I saw you dial your cell when you left the house yesterday. Who did you call?".

There was a poster here last year who not only would allow WW to receive calls from OM but he would go get her cappuccino and bonbons so she could relax while talking to OM and then leave the room so she could have her privacy.

I believe they divorced.

Pio -- my plan A seems to be working ok at times. WW seems to be warm at times. Last night she said she saw an "old part of myself" when I did not manage my reaction to certain trigger (her stepping out alone at night to shop).

She sensed a downturn in my mood -- TRUE.

I did not do well, but I also explained to her why as well. That I was still hurting and wondered if OM had any contact with her during her late night shopping given school is out for summer (OM - 6th grade teacher). She said no and that he was on East Coast with his family.

For instance, when she stepped out alone last night (shopping) and I suggested accompanying her for company, she seemed less than enthusiastic that I wanted to go with her (her legit reason) being that the kids would accompany us as well and she was with the kids most of the day today (at nephew graduation while I was at work).

Anyway, when she is out alone at night, this was when those meetings with OM would occur.

Forgive my rambling......

Time to get back into plan A this morning!

I wouldn't continue Plan A if she is openly conducting the A under your nose.

may I be so bold as to interject one teenie...eeensie question??

Is not plan A alllllllllllllllllllllll about your actions while assuming and presuming that there is contact between the WS and OP...

is that NOT what plan A is exactly...


hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm??


should we try this one for a test drive....

if in plan A.............

ARK

Where I differentiate this is blatant disregard for boundaries. Yes I agree with what you are saying. I am NOT turning into Lemonman. What I am talking about is a WW who flaunts the A in front of the BH. I do think his WW is trying to hide her actions if she is indeed still in contact. But if his WW were like adrianc's WW, it would be difficult to remain in Plan A. How to be a doormat without being a doormat? Deja vu.

I would rather be flaunted....then taken underground and really on false unsteady terrain....

blatant contact is the exactly what is expected in plan A....

now there certainly are degrees of insanity of it..

phone calls in front of the BS...blatant you watch the kids I'm going to Freds' Beds for a while...

but hidden...
questionable cell phone contact..

is she
isn't she...

fodder for those in plan A
especially plan A for a mere month....

didnt read the first pages though...

but the best plan B's occur following the best plan A's...
and knee jerking in to plan B...
rarely is a good idea...

ARKie

As best as any of you can assess, tell me what state you think my WW may be in at this time (in other words what may be going thru her mind based on her behavior).

Sitch:
EA -1 month duration for the month of May
PA - (kissing only according to WW)
D-day - 28 May
NC - established since 6 June

I was fortunate to discover MB fairly quickly after A. Read the online info provided by Dr Harley!

Plan A in action for 1 month come next week.

Current sitch at home -- I and WW do get along, we do not argue. Its more like the dating scene again. If I tell her I love her, she says, "you too" (I do not expect her to say she loves me back). If I say I miss her, same response.

We have gone out on dates without the 3 kids twice since A.

I try to fill her EN of affection and conversation. HOW?

Make myself available for brief conversation when I or she comes into contact at home after work.

I compliment her on her appearance, occassionally tell her I care and am available for her if she wants to talk without me providing any LBs or DJs.

At night when laying together, she does stroke me and has provided SF 3 times since A.

I do EVERYTHING at home to keep all stable -- take care of kids, provide food, clean house, and ALL of the financial needs of home.

My WW used to be a stay home mom. She only went to work part time because she said the allowance I provided her was not enough!

Its like she is just occupies space and reap the benefits of my home care.

She does still maintain a password on her cell phone, BUT only I receive the bill and can monitor if NC is broken from this contact avenue. The one BC I have for her is that NC must be maintained and that she and OM CANNOT be "friends" after summer vacation is over! We'll see what happens when he returns to local area.

WW said OM is gone for summer though! WW said (last night) she has had no contact with OM.

I feel like I am on trial or experiencing an "pratical interview" competing for the position of "worthy H"!

I would rather have NC.

Exactly what is expected? I won't buy that. I've never read your story. Is this how it went with you? To be honest, I'm not even sure if you are a B or W.

I will agree that a BS can expect NC to be broken. I've lived it.

But I also cannot discount the issue of respect. After Dday, I lost my self-respect. I believe my WW had her A, at least partly, because she had lost respect for me. To get her back to the M, we each had to regain respect for me. I could not have respected myself if my WW had been openly cheating. I would have had no respect for her because she would have shown me that she simply had no decency left. By her skullduggery [sic?], she was showing me that she did have some respect for my position as the husband. She had not completely checked out of the M or what M means.

We are all different. I think the fact that my WW snuck around showed me that she at least recognized that what she was doing was wrong. That it did not "fit" in the M.

It certainly creates a lot of confusion. It makes it hard to fight the battle when you have no clue what the enemy is up to. But that's a two-way street as well.

While I maintain plan A, I will not sit idly by and say nothing if NC is broken!

But what will you do if you have POC (proof of contact)? I think I keep asking you this. What is your friggin' plan?!? I had a plan. It worked. [BTW I owe Bigger for the plan.]

And if you ever write anything like that again (I'm referring to the exclamation mark), I'm off your thread forever.

No you do not sit idly by. You already know what you will do. You do NOT necessarily throw a D petition in her face.

Yes you are a man.

Yes you believe in yourself.

A man that can deny himself and save his M in spite of what he feels? That's a real man.

So calm down.

Oh, and get a plan.

Look. It's almost 3:00AM. I'm off to bed.

And get a plan.

swade...

I have you approached the subject of marriage counseling with her...

sounds like she is going to be perfectly content to sweep this whole thing under the rug....
and just "move on" from it....which never never works...

Is she willing to answer questions about the affair that you have..
is she willing to talk about it....

I would continue plan a...
push for counseling at this time...
start verbalizing how you don't ever want her to feel the need to go looking elsewhere....in the marriage...

do the emotional needs questionairre on this site...

in other words what is her willingness to commit to the marriage...

ARK