Agreed - plan A and wait for further guidance from Steve next week!

I will ask her to read SAA.

I would be encouraged if she fulfilled this request at this point.

Pio

When dealing with your WS during the withdrawal stage or during plan A, were you able to have any meaningful conversations that helped develop intimacy?

OR

Did you just stick to small talk?

I would love to hear from a WS perspective on whether the BS was helpful or disruptive in trying to have meaningful conversation outside of the A?

Conversation developed in phases.

At first, conversation was simple. I probably wanted to talk about feelings too much. WW didn't want to talk much at all.

Then, as withdrawal got worse, WW didn't want to talk at all. I gave up trying.

After about 5 months, conversation became more "normal".

The thing is I'm betting you can't have just a conversation for the sake of conversation. I'm betting you are trying to get something out of every conversation. I'm betting that you often try to steer the conversation a certain way.

Just let the conversation be what it will be. Don't have expectations. You mentioned intimacy. You got what? Three days of NC under your belt? I think you are a long way from intimacy.

The less you try to push WW, the more likely she will be drawn to you. Remember that magnetic thing?

Actually, converstaion has simply been VERY small talk!

e.g., movies, shows, etc...nothing real serious

No relationship talk has occurred.

The only talk that has been 'uncomfortable' is holding the WW accountable for NC.

Just found out WW broke NC yesterday - 1st break.

Now I will present WW with new BC's tonight and if she does not agree, I will give her 2 weeks to get out until she decides whether she wants to commit to the M.

The new BCs are (in a list to be signed):

1) No passwords on PC or cell phone
2) Supervised phone call (tonight) to OM -- no delay to give OM a heads up (the call will most likely be after midnight OM time).
3) Agree to speak with S Harley this Thu (as planned already)
4) New cell phone number or no cell at all ( I will keep acct in my name for review).

I have to live by what I told WW were the repercussions of violating NC.

Am I on target or missing anything?

She has no business calling OM, supervised or not.

BK - I actually found the break in an e-mail sent to OM.

Now I want to have a supervised NC call to OM!

Nope.

To what end?

OM is an irrelavant piece of chit.

What would you suggest as a way to get the message to OM for 'new' NC?

After all OM, will still contact WW via e-mail.

Its also hard to acquire his home address - has has been very secretive! I have done background checks to acquire info on OMW and I have been very unsuccessful.

My $$$$ spent for tools and info has gone up -- I need to save some $$$.

Again, BK (or anyone else) what would you suggest?

Put the onus squarely on WW to break it off -- she has had that opportunity!

it IS your wife's problem not his. She contacted him. more dramatic NC threats from her in a supervised phone call to OM are a waste of time. If she won't maintain NC (note WON'T not can't) all the NC phone calls in the world won't change that.

At some point, continued contact will need to be a deal breaker for you.

Personally, I think 2 weeks is generous. And IMO a wayward in NC should be willing to forego even having a cell phone for a time.

In my sitch, one time after confronting a NC violation, I kept the cell phone in question - and hid it well. WW got another one, but I demonstrated that I knew what was going on. And without betraying my primary sources.

I may live near your WW's OMW. If there is anything I can do as a local (i.e., checking phone books), get in touch.

- WG

BK - OM sent WW email first and then WW responded to his e-mail saying "she missed him too".

I see. Still it's pointless approaching OM about this. A waste of time and energy.

So you recommend telling WW to simply maintain NC and do my periodic checks!

What WW should have said to OM was "go to he11". That is a true NC statement.

What your WW DID do was say "please email me again. I'll be sitting here waiting to hear from you."

So it is 100% guaranteed that OM will contact her again based on what she told him.

At some point WW needs to get the message that there are now consequences to her actions. I told my WW that I would not allow her to have an A while living in the family house. The A is not yet reality for your WW. It may be about time to send her packing. It is likely that that will scare the bejeesus out of her. Your WW doesn't want to go. If she did, she would already be gone.

I agree with Pio - consequences and boundaries. Take the focus off OM - this is all on your WW. Forget OM.

swade,

You both have IC with the Harleys in four days right? Just stay calm until then. Don't pack her bags just yet but get ready for the idea. I think the A is dying. Continued contact makes it an Academy Award winning death throes performance but it is still death.

Contact is unhealthy for you M but also unhealthy for your WW. The temporary high is quickly qwelled by the agony. At this point, I don't think it is so much she wants to be with OM but rather that she is delaying having to face reality. She doesn't miss OM. She misses those carefree days before Dday and exposure gave reality to her A. She misses the fantasy. She knows that she will never achieve that with OM again - even if she goes running into his arms tonight. Everything she loved about the A is gone forever. She knows that. That's why she is still with you.

So sit tight these next 100 hours or so until your IC appointments. See what Steve has to say. Remember that Plan A doesn't mean that WW maintains NC. But when she said she would go NC, that's when the rules changed. She can no longer come to you and say "guess what? I've changed my mind. I want to continue the A." She knows she can't do that. She is becoming what my WW became - pathetic. It is sad to watch. But NC will resolve that. NC will help her go down the path to gaining her dignity and self-esteem back. NC, sooner or later, is an absolute must.

Yes -- I will stay cool until the IC this week which she agreed to.

She does not want to go and she says she does NOT want to be with OM gievn that he betrayed her trust by lying to her about his being M.

She just says that it is hard to 'cut loose'.

I am prepared to send her packing and I also told her transparency is NOT negotiable. I WILL BE MONITORING.

One subtlety is that my WW does NOT tell OM she loves in repsonse to him saying that he loves her.

She did say that she told OM (before today) that she would have NO personal or physical contact with OM again.

I told her to simply don't reply to his e-mail.

I will see what Steve says and, again, I am prepared to send her packing! Enough is enough!

Thanks 'MB crew' for being there for me! I need it! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />