NOW

I'd be all over that like a RASH if only there weren't those awkwards NT scriptures about answering prayer, and about healing.

The God I know is the OT God. Job's, Solomon's and Habbakuk's God. By turns Capricious, jealous, mighty and loving.

His choice whom and when he aids in prayer.

The NT sets a whole new bar.

Ecclesiastes is a good read too <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

GOD ANSWERS PRAYERS:
Sometimes the answer is "Yes"
Sometimes the answer is "No"
Sometimes the answer is "Not right now"

God never gives us everything we ask for, he knows what is best for us better than we do.

MEDC,

Haven't you known anyone thats been injured in anaccident. There are people every day that have limbs crushed or severed. By all rights, the limbs should be lost, but they are saved by the hands of a surgen. I would consider the surgens abilities a gift from God. I think the miricle your looking for happens every day.

Bob, God never changes!

What changed was the way of salvation!

I know the Bible promises answered prayer, but where does it say when those answers will be manifested, or shown to us?
I know the Bible says the second we ask, our prayer has been answered. What I believe is, we will see them answered if not now, then in eternity. What more could you ask for, really?

These questions you have, they are all good. Do you pray to find the answers? Do you believe you will at some point understand? I think you do, otherwise you wouldn't keep searching and knocking!

I have wrestled and struggled with all these questions, and more...some I gradually came to understand, other questions remain a mystery. If I got all the answers, I guess then i would be God, eh? <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

A friend of mine sent me this today:


Another friend, who doesn't know the first friend, sent me the same message in layman's terms last night. I've been praying and struggling with the things I've posted in my own thread... I don't think it's a coincidence that I received similar messages from two totally different people, neither of whom know each other, but know me. In my book that constitutes Divine Intervention. You can disagree with me - I don't mind, but it won't change my belief.

Another friend of mine, who is not known by either of my other friends, is going through an unwanted divorce right now - I've referred her to this site, I don't think she's posted here yet, but she's been reading. My friend may be having a crisis of faith. I sent her excerpts from both of the emails I received from both of my friends, assuring her of God's love and comfort.

Some things are just to odd to be "coincidences", IMO.

JinGA

Holy. Pure. Light. True. Valid. Genuine. Real. Bountiful. Faithful. Upright.



What about in Scripture? Do you see His goodness manifested there through the Lord Jesus Christ?

Do you see His goodness in the heart of others? At least occasionally?

In the heavens? His Creation?



I want to look at a couple of those verses. If I miss one you were thinking of, I'd be happy to look at it.

These are my very favorite verses...

[color:"red"]Matthew 7

7Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

8For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

9Or what man is there of you, whom if his son ask bread, will he give him a stone?

10Or if he ask a fish, will he give him a serpent?

11If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children, how much more shall your Father which is in heaven give good things to them that ask him? [/color]

Now, Luke 11 adds a bit more to aid in our understanding...

[color:"red"]9And I say unto you, Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you.
10For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.

11If a son shall ask bread of any of you that is a father, will he give him a stone? or if he ask a fish, will he for a fish give him a serpent?

12Or if he shall ask an egg, will he offer him a scorpion?

13If ye then, being evil, know how to give good gifts unto your children: how much more shall your heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to them that ask him? [/color]

What is the "good thing" God promises to give to those who ask?

The Holy Spirit.

I believe this, the greatest of miracles, is given every time it is asked for.

I don't believe this means God will give us ANYTHING we want.

I believe this promise is only for salvation.

Here's another one...

[color:"red"]Matthew 18

11For the Son of man is come to save that which was lost.

12How think ye? if a man have an hundred sheep, and one of them be gone astray, doth he not leave the ninety and nine, and goeth into the mountains, and seeketh that which is gone astray?

13And if so be that he find it, verily I say unto you, he rejoiceth more of that sheep, than of the ninety and nine which went not astray.

14Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.

15Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother.

16But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established.

17And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican.

18Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

19Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.

20For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. [/color]

Again, I believe the context and promise is for the greatest miracle, a changed heart...salvation.

[color:"red"]John 15

16Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you. [/color]

What does "in my Father's name" mean? Does it mean we can ask God for a restored M, a new car, a healthy child, and then add "In Jesus' name to the end of it, and God will give it to us?

Or does "In Jesus' name mean something else?

I think it means that the God ordained disciples will only ask for things that are according to God's will.

Same as His son did.

Jesus, prayed, "Not my will, but thine be done."



Indeed you are correct.

The difference is that the believer believes "That all things work together for good to those who love Him."

And they know that God cares about their situation and will offer comfort and hope to them through His word.



In the case of asking for salvation, that prayer is most definitely answered in our temporal world as well as the spirtual.

~ Marsh

It shouldn't. That should clear up your confusion.

What I believe is, we will see them answered if not now, then in eternity

Trouble is NOW* I can't see that backed up in scripture.

This is like answering every question with " Christ, and Him crucified". I have had a few disussion on here that frustrated me SO VERY MUCH because that was the answer I always got.

If what we can expect from God ONLY in answer to prayer is a lottery of outcomes on earth but the hope of salvation upon our death, why does scripture say God will give us what we ask for so very clearly ?

I want to KNOW what to expect from God so I can renew my relationship with Him, not use my personal deductions to "fill in the gaps" where scripture does not seem to be fulfilled.

God is WORTH the work of getting to know properly, I think. I just with it wasn't so hard !

Thats an interesting dogma, Marsh.

Why isn't scripture more specific that prayer will be answered only by sending the Holy Spirit and the gift of salvation ?

So just to clarify we cannot "trust" God to intervene in our lives in response to prayer in any way other than reminding us of our salvation and sending the Holy Spirit ?

I can live with that if it is backed by scripture.

I find it harder to believe that God does not intervene supernaturally in this world though. I have heard personal tesimonies that demonstrate clearly that he does.

MEDC,

Let’s say I wrote a letter to you saying that my alarm clock rings at 6 am. If you read no further you would expect my alarm to ring everyday at 6am. But later in the letter or in another letter I tell you that my alarm clock rings Monday Wednesday and Friday, then I have narrowed down the specifics about when my alarm clock rings. Both of the statements are correct even though they were not mentioned at the same time. So you can conclude from both statements that my alarm clock rings at 6am, Monday Wednesday and Friday.

There are other statements about prayer in the Bible. If you look at them all you will understand why someone cannot base their expectations on this one scripture. The other Scripture about prayer will also have apply. So when you do not get the answer you want, it doesn’t mean that you cannot take scripture literally.

Personally, I know of a little girls heart that had a hole in it and was healed right before surgery. I know a couple who were having a baby. One day they went in for a check up and no matter what they tried, they could not find the baby’s heart beat. He baby was officially declared dead in the mother’s womb.

They scheduled to have the dead fetus evacuated. That morning of the procedure, the father prayed with a group of pastor’s. They prayed for the life of the unborn child. In the hospital they were preparing for the procedure and the mother asked if they were going to check one more time. The team told her that there was no need; it was confirmed. She pleaded for them to check once more, so they did. With the father and medical team present. The baby’s heart was beating again. The baby was born a few months later, healthy without any defects.

There is a woman in my church whose cancer was healed, yet another woman who had the exact same type of cancer accepted Christ, but died 3 months later. It is possible that the first woman was cured in order to lead the second one to Christ? So when the second one died, she would be with the Savior. No more pain, no more suffering in the arms of her creator.

I prayed for a friend to except Christ. It took 18 years but he did.

God answers prayer; according to the scripture you quoted and the other scripture regarding prayer.

Sometimes yes, sometimes no, sometimes not yet. And we haven't talked about free will yet. That's another issue that affects prayer. But Scripture tells us that God has our best in mind when it comes to our lives and our relationship to Him.

I hope this helps. Blessings to you.

S&C

This should be very encouraging. Anything that we ask according to His will, He will grant out petitions. The list of things that are always His will is much longer than salvation and the Holy Spirit, though they are on there.

Sometimes we don't know if something is on "the list". In those cases, we pray with full faith and sincerity, knowing that God is able, and believing that He will grant our request if it fits in with His will.

Sometimes we may pray for something we know to be God's will, but must still submit it to His judgment due to the involvement of the free will of others. During the A I prayed wholeheartedly for the restoration of my M, knowing 100% that it was God's will, yet recognizing that neither of us would violate the choice of then-WH. (Also knowing that my intercession would allow God to work in ways and places He would otherwise have been barred from.)

I have to get the kids off to their last day of school, but have plenty more to say. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Thanks for the input everyone. I am reading and find the subject both interesting and very troubling at the same time. I normally find so much peace in my faith and I feel very shaken by the research I am doing on this. Nothing against anyone here that has said this... but I think if I hear "God works in mysterious ways" one more time I will pull my hair out! That argument could be used by anyone to explain away anything that is not as it seems.
I am resorting to what I know best when in a crisis. Prayer. Care to join me.... right now, I could use the extra voices.

MEDC

MEDC, I will join you!

There came a point in my faith where glib answers and religious jargon no longer meant anything....it was really disconcerting and scary, to say the least.

When you're no longer satisfied with the "common", pat answers, I believe God is working, and the only way you're going to get to THE truth is to search on your own. I think Bob is at a similar point in his faith, too, and from my own experience, you both are in a really good position for God to speak to you.

I could say a lot about my own beliefs and experiences, but until a person finds the answers himself, nothing anybody says is gonna make much sense or mean much. Kwim?

Ever hear the phrase, "dark night of the soul"?
If you are a serious, searching believer, I think it is something you have to go through.
God definitely has your attention, eh?

Prayers,

NOW

I will join you too!

S&C

I need prayer now for peace of mind in many things...it looks like my foster child is not going to be available for adoption. All I am waiting for is the official letter at this point. This can be such a complicated process. I was warned in advance that doing this could lead to heartache...and it certainly does. I want what is best for her and have such mixed emotions about her possibly reuniting with family. While I believe that everyone has the ability to change... I just hate the way the systems allow these children to form bonds with families (and the families with them) and then have them taken away. I know that no matter what happens, my son and I will forever be richer for this experience, that she knows she has a place she can always call home and that we will take the plunge again and give our best to a child in need.
.

Concurrent planning is the explanation I get.... that is the fancy terminology used by the agency to explain how and why they do things behind your back...family reunification is another term they throw around... funny though in my area it always seems to involve an african american child that has been placed with a caucasion family. It happens all the time here and there seems to be very little stink about it unless the child has been with the fosters since infancy.

arrrghhhhhh!

I'm sorry for your pain, MEDC.

You are doing an awesome thing for that young girl. No matter the outcome, you and your son are making a positive impact in her life.

Lori

Praying for you, the little girl, and for all involved, MEDC... I hope (at least) you can find some peace in that. I really do understand feeling confused and far from God... and believe me, I've yelled my frustrations at God before (along with many, many tears)... you are NOT alone!

First things first, MEDC. I will join you in praying for your little girl. I will pray that God's Will be done in her life, in your life, and in the life of your whole family. If it's His will that she join your family, then even DCS can not stand in His way! If it is not God's will for her to be your permanent daughter, and you were only meant to be a foundation of security for her during a VERY difficult time in her life, than all your trying and worrying will not be able to prevent her from going. Thankfully, our God is greater than the circumstances around us, and He LOVES her deeply. In His wisdom He will do what is best for her, but not necessarily what is easiest or hurts the least. Same for you.

Second, if I understand your initial question correctly, you don't want a big scriptural hosing down, but a REAL answer. Assuming that all scriptures are infallible, why does Matt. 21 say that a believe can ask for anything in faith, and it will be given to them? Is that about it? Is that what you're asking?

Like...why do believers pray for their diabetic limbs to be healed and they're not? Why do believers here on MB pray for their marriages to be restored and they're not? Why do big, strong cops fall in love with sweet little girls and pray that he gets to keep her, only to have DCS take her back? Right?

Like you, I believe that all scripture is infallible. Thus, I believe that when Jesus said, "...if you have faith and do not doubt, not only can you do what was done to the fig tree, but also you can say to this mountain, 'Go, throw yourself into the sea,' and it will be done. If you believe, you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer" that was exactly what He means. As I understand it, though, Jesus was one with the mind of God. He knew exactly what God intended for that fig tree because not only was He the son of God, but He WAS God. Therefore, when He (Jesus) prayed for the fig tree to wither, He was putting words to God's own thoughts. And that's what He means when He says, "...you will receive whatever you ask for in prayer."

This is not some kind of "faith contest" to see who has "enough" and who doesn't. If you ask for something and don't get it, it doesn't mean you don't "have enough" faith. It means that you did not put words to God's thoughts. Most likely (not always) you were praying YOUR OWN thoughts or asking for what YOU want. On the other hand, the desire of a believer is to become closer and more intimate with God...to know Him more and more by studying His Word because He told us everything in there! The more we get to know Him, the more we will know His thoughts...and the more we know His thoughts, when we pray we will put words to God's thoughts. When we pray like that--putting words to God's thoughts--then I guarantee you we will receive what we pray for because we are praying from God's Will.

I have to admit, sometimes God's Will does not "make sense" to me...partially because I am an imperfect human being and think my own thoughts and think I know better! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/pfft.gif" alt="" /> Usually, I want to do what does not hurt people, and I tend to pray for people to avoid what is painful. Yet we know that suffering often teaches us a lot and leads us straight to God!

So that's my take on this. I'll be praying for you and your little girl. I'll mention to God that YOU love her and hope that you can keep her, but that in the end we trust HIM to do what is the absolute best for you both. ((((MEDC))))

Your faithful friend,



CJ

The best reference on prayer I have ever read was called 'Prayer: Asking and Receiving', written 60+ years ago by late evangelist Dr. John R. Rice. Apparently it's still pretty popular; his website (johnrrice.com) lists bulk pricing (or $2.95 single qty). I didn't dig around to see what shipping costs were.

Most people these days (and, probably, in past ages as well) are pretty wimpy prayer warriors. The giants of the faith, the great evangelists and men who were reknowned as having power with God, commonly spent at least 2-4 hours a day in prayer and Bible study.

Matthew 17 (KJV):

18 And Jesus rebuked the devil; and he departed out of him: and the child was cured from that very hour.

19 Then came the disciples to Jesus apart, and said, Why could not we cast him out?

20 And Jesus said unto them, Because of your unbelief: for verily I say unto you, If ye have faith as a grain of mustard seed, ye shall say unto this mountain, Remove hence to yonder place; and it shall remove; and nothing shall be impossible unto you.

21 Howbeit this kind goeth not out but by prayer and fasting.

I think most of us stop one verse too soon.