I am a male BS; D-day was almost four ago. I haven’t talked to anyone about this yet except my WS wife, but I am very interested in getting other perspectives on our particular situation. We would like to avoid talking to family and friends for obvious reasons. I haven’t seen a therapist yet, but may at some time. I am especially interested in getting feedback on a couple of questions I have regarding some things that are happening now.

We have been married almost 17 years with two children, a 13-year-old boy and a 9-year-old girl. We are good parents are provide a good home. Our primary concern throughout this whole situation was the effect this situation has on the kids. So far, we believe we have avoided having them suspect anything, but who really knows, kids can pick up more than we think they do.

Our situation is somewhat typical, in that we had some great times in the beginning, then slowly drifted apart, not meeting each other’s needs. I will admit that I am more guilty of that than her, she has told me numerous times in the past that I don’t talk to her enough, I am too much of a hurry to initiate sex without satisfying her emotional needs first, don’t do enough with the kids, etc. She is 100% right on these things. She has had more experience with relationships than I have, and has shown a higher level of maturity of dealing with our relationship than I have. Later on my frustration led to me being short with her, saying unpleasant things, reacting harshly when a suggestion was made or help was requested. She has said after awhile she felt very alone and unloved. I take responsibility for these actions, and I am already working on learning and improving myself and have resolved to change my life for the better as a result of it. She says she is pleased with the way I have changed so far.

About 7 years ago we moved back to her hometown, a few years after that she started a correspondence and then visits with a male friend from her past. He had started the contact my emailing people, including my wife, from his past out of curiosity with what happened to them. I didn’t think much of it at the time, although I did read a few emails from that time to her from him where he made statements wondering what their lives would be liked if their relationship at the time had progressed further, etc. I found out after D-day that they had been lovers before I met my wife, so it’s an old flame situation. I realize now that was an initial danger sign. My wife started going on scuba trips overseas a few years ago, I supported and encouraged this as she has a great interest in the outdoors and enjoys the activity. I just assumed she was going by herself. Last fall I happened to be using her computer when I noticed she was logged onto an email account I didn’t recognize. Being curious, I looked at it briefly, but not enough to read any messages. I guess at the time I wanted to respect her privacy, but looking back I realize this was another danger sign, a much larger one. We also stopped making love about two years ago, when I asked her about it she said she just wasn’t interested, which I found odd. The final piece of evidence that occurred the week before D-day was that a postcard came in the mail from the hotel she stayed at during her last scuba trip. Her name and the name of the male friend was on it. I remembered about the secret email account and decided to do some snooping. I bought and installed a monitoring program on her computer, and within a few days had her email password. The next time she was out of the house, I logged onto her secret email account and discovered that she had been seeing him intimately for at least 2 years (I later found out that the affair has been going on for 3 years). Reading the emails about their scuba trips together, and especially the sexually graphic emails to each other where they relived their experience was very painful to me, as I’m sure some of you can attest to.

I came very close to a panic, as some of the emails referred to the OP being a step dad to my kids, others talked about how much retirement money they each had to contribute to a possible future life together, another talked about letting me go so I can discover happiness somewhere else. Other emails talked glowingly about some of their sexual encounters in our house, including sleeping together and having sex in the bed I shared with my wife. Of everything that has happened, this is particularly upsetting to me, as I feel it shows an incredible lack of respect for me the BS from the WS and OP. I will add some of these non-scuba trip encounters happened when I was on scout camping trips with my kids, sleeping in a tent in freezing weather while my wife was making love to someone else in my own bed.

I feel like an idiot, looking back there were many clues to what was going on, my trusting nature and beliefs about my wife prevented me from recognizing those clues for what they were.

I confronted my wife with my discovery; she didn’t try to deny it. Her consistent response since then has been that my treatment of her, my making her feel unloved, not meeting her emotional needs left her open to the affair. She also says she could tell by my actions and body language that I wasn’t happy in the relationship, and she is right, I wasn’t. She wonders if she is “right for me”, and maybe she can’t meet my needs based on how I have treated her. She says she didn’t go looking for this, but the OP happened to be there at the same time during a similar time in his life (he apparently has also drifted away from his wife over the years), and so they gradually got more emotionally involved, and of course from there to being physically involved also.

She says she and the OP stopped this relationship several times during the affair out of fear of being discovered and out of concern the hurt it would cause each BS. In fact at the time I discovered it, they had actually decided to stop in the near future, and my wife was considering approaching me about repairing my relationship. My wife and I have discussed this for many hours since D-day, our conversations have been calm, frank and honest, I feel that is a good sign. She is a little skeptical on my ability to change, and based on my past history of being reluctant to change I don’t blame her. However, she has agreed to work with me on improving our relationship, although it’s much less of a total commitment at this point.

I still love my wife, and want to learn from this and reconcile and rebuild our relationship. We both agree this is a huge wake-up call and our last chance to make things better. I have read several books that have been very helpful to me in understanding how these things happen and what each party is feeling and going through, two were “After the Affair”, and “NOT Just Friends”. I highly recommend Not Just Friends as the one excellent book to read on the subject of affairs. I have asked my wife to read the book and she has almost completed it.

This understandably devastates me, and I realize it will take a long time for the repair and healing process. I am mentally prepared for this and am motivated to do what it takes to rebuild things with my wife. Three things (among many of course) are bothering me, which I wanted to get more perspective on from others who post here that have been through this.

The first concerns continuing contact between my wife and the OP. Before reading the books I asked her to stop having sex with the OP, she reluctantly agreed to this, again mentioning that this was something they had decided to do anyway. When I also asked her to stop all contact with the OP out of concern of the relationship restarting and having her emotional energy still being expended towards him and not me, she expressed reluctance. She said things like “I really enjoy talking to him”, “He has become a great friend”, and “he really enjoy scuba diving with me”. I let it go at the time, but after reading the books mentioned above I now realize this is something that has to happen if the reconciliation has any change of success. My current dilemma is this: Her next scuba trip with him is coming up in a couple of weeks. I have reluctantly given my agreement for her to go with him on this trip with the understanding that they not be intimate, she has discussed this with the OP and they both have agreed to this. I said they must act during this remaining phase of their relationship as platonic friends only, again they have both agreed to this. But I wondering if I am being too trusting at this early stage, I’m sure the temptation for them to repeat what happened in the past will be strong (they may be sharing a hotel room during part of the trip, my wife says they can look into getting a room with double beds). I told her any actions beyond the platonic stage would probably eliminate any chance for reconciliation. She says my attitude about this makes her feel like she is being “tested”, I told her that I am looking for her to show a sign of faith that she is still interested in our relationship.

My next concern is how I should handle the stopping of all contact with the OP. I have told her that everything I read strongly recommends permanently stopping all contact with the OP. I have also told her that I agree with this. After several discussions about this and reading the Not Just Friends book, she has agreed to this. When I told her I would like to witness the final phone call; she said my request showed immaturity. She wants to have one final meeting with him after their trip to say their final goodbyes, she says that she would feel much better about ending things to do it this way, and if she is allowed to do it this way she would be more open to reconciliation.

I am trying to work with her and negotiate an ending to the affair that’s acceptable to both of us. I would obviously want her to end things immediately, but I realize she is going through withdrawal so it would be helpful to her to end this affair somewhat on her terms.

Another item related to the ending of this affair concerns a request from the OP asking me not to contact his wife. I agreed to this, but I told my wife to tell him that he should do the right thing and tell her. However, I am now thinking about using this as a safeguard to prevent him from contacting my wife again, I am thinking of telling him that if he ever contacts my wife again, I will tell his wife what happened.

The final area that concerns me at this time is twofold; it concerns her attitudes towards this situation. The first thing that is bothering me is that she has shown almost no remorse for the hurt she has caused me. When I ask her about this, she mentions that she cried to the OP about this issue at different times in the past. The other thing that is bothering me is that she doesn’t seem to be making a lot of effort on her part to reconcile. She is open to my suggestions, is always available to talk to me, and says she is willing to give out relationship another try. But her current attitude makes it clear most of the effort needs to come from me at this point. She says she has drifted away from me over the last several years due to my treatment of her and therefore doesn’t have much to give me at the point, and there is just only so much she is ready to do now. And she is concerned about being “right for me” as I mentioned previously. However, this contrasts with what I read about reconciliation is that the WS should expend most of the effort in healing the hurt and working to improve the relationship. In our case, she has done almost nothing to heal my hurt, and she is waiting to see how sincere I am about changing before she commits herself further. What does this mean? Will her attitude change down the road? I realize it’s only been four weeks and most of her emotional energy is still devoted towards the OP and A and she is dealing with withdrawal.

I am aware of the “180”, I have used this briefly to get her to agree to NC. I am concerned about using this on a long-term basis as it may sever what little connection we have now.

I apologize for this post being so long, but this is obviously a complicated subject. The forums and articles on this website have been very helpful to me, so I though I would post my story to get some feedback.

Any insights you can give me from some one that has “been there and done that” would be greatly appreciated. I will monitor this post to see your responses, and would be glad to answer any questions or clarify anything if that helps you provide guidance for me.

Thank you.

Welcome. I think you need to call the Harleys right away and get some counseling. It is completely crazy to let the lovers go on another trip together, and then to "break up" in person.

Your wife needs to send him a no contact letter and never talk to him again.

Don't have much time but agree with the above poster.

No contact. Period.

No scuba trip. No other vacations.

No private break up.

No more anything. Nothing. Period. Zilch.

They must cut if off now.

I feel you should let the OM wife know. That will definately help with the NC from that point forward.

In my opinion, they are still having an affair and will continue to have an affair until all of the above are done.

You also need to quit being walked on. You are allowing anyhing and everything in the name of keeping the peace.

You must make boundaries, make consequences if those boundaries are breached and then enforce them. You cannot sit idly by and watch this unfold under your nose the way your CHEATING spouse wants it too.

She has given up all rights to have things the way she wants them as far as I'm concerned. This doesn't mean you can't do a Plan A or anything, but your boundaries must be kept.

The ball is in your court. Make good use of it.

You do not negotiate. You cancel the trip and tell his wife. She'll be pissed, but it is the only way that the relationship will stop. She needs to have NC with OM FOR LIFE! I would even recommend moving away. I would probably expose to her parents as well. She is putting this all on you. You weren't happy in this relationship either (which is partly her fault as well), but you didn't go around screwing other women. It is time to stand up and get a backbone. NO MORE TRIPS! She need to account for her time, and you need to spy the ****** out of her. They have tried several times to end the affair, but they are ADDICTED and cannot. The affair will just go further underground. You need some outside intervention to kill this thing off.

Why are you trusting your wife at all? The saying goes, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." Shame on you, RilWW!

Hello,

I am so sorry for you. It is clear that your wife has virtually no respect for you. She has been carrying on a sexual affair for years behind your back and has made your marriage and annaversries a big joke. You take your kids camping and she has had no problem bring her lover into your home and into your same bed? This is the ultimate in total disrespect to you and your marriage. Do you honestly think your wife would have accepted such things from you?

She should be doing everything to show remorse and work on recovery. She now tells you she plans on going on another trip with her lover to go on a scuba trip? Are you out of your mind? Why are you allowing you to totally humiliate you as a man and a spouse?

PLEASE CONTACT THE OM'S WIFE AT ONCE! By you not doing this you have sent a clear message to the OM that it has been acceptable for him to screw your wife in your home and in your bed and you will do nothing.

Immediately cancil the trip and see an attorney to understand your options. No consequences to her actions equals no motivation to change. My friend she is playing you for a complete fool and knows that you are willing to put up with anything. You judge a person by their actions and not by their words and her actions speak volumes. Again it is clear that she has no respect for you. If you do not respect yourself then who will? Enough is enough!!

I agree with others. I will put this a bit more straight forwardly. You don't have a snowball's chance in H***, if contact continues.

The lack of respect, the lack of honesty, and the lack of remorse show clearly that this affair is ongoing and will continue. Step one is to expose this affair to OM's W, and to her parents or clergyman who may have influence on this.

She will be mad, she will threaten divorce, she will not talk to you, and she will have to face HER choices. You MUST understand the decision to have an affair had NOTHING to do with you meeting her needs or not. It was her choice, and you were not consulted. The state of your marriage is affected by your behavior, but NOT her affair.

She is blame shifting and you should look her in the eye and tell her you will NOT accept any blame for her having an affair as it was HER choice not yours.

GEt with it, and stop this trip.

God Bless,

JL

Thank you so much everyone for your kind words and suggestions on how to handle this very difficult situation.

I feel my backbone stiffening up and have been going through what I want to say to her in my mind. I also looked up the phone number of the OM's wife, I plan to call her tonight or tomorrow before I talk to WW.

I am resolved now to tell her NC starts immediately, she goes on the trip by herself or not at all, and healing this hurt falls to her. I am mentally preparing myself to ask her to leave if she balks at this.

When we first started talking about this after D-day, she actually suggested maybe we could have an "open marriage" where she could continue to see him and I could also find something on the side, and we would stay married "for the kids" and be a couple for parenting only. I believe that's a dishonest and immoral way to live and would not want my kids to grow up in such a household.

So her decision will be immediate NC, full commitment to M; or she leaves. I don't think I could live with someone that hurt me this badly and never show any remorse.

Thanks again for your encouragement and support. I will post again with the results of our discussion.

By the way, I edited my post to add the word "weeks" after the word four to indicate d-day was four weeks ago.

If she is wanting an open marriage, her problems go MUCH deeper than originally thought.

She is going to need counseling and possibly a sexual addiction support group.

The other thing is that you need to flat out CANCEL her vacation. No going by herself (which she will never do regardless of what she tells you). It needs to be canceled.
You will be played a fool again if you let her either talk you into letting her go, or if you allow it at all. I wouldn't let her go regardless of the amount of crying, yelling, threats of divorce, blah, blah, blah that she will more than likely send your way.

Of course you could play along I suppose. Tell her that a scuba trip sounds like a wonderful idea as you've been wanting to learn how to do it for a while now. She'll probably either flip out (indicating she didn't want you to go so she could sleep with OM), or she'll tell you that she wants to go alone so she can have time to get her thoughts together (so she can go and sleep with OM). So it's either you both go, or no one does. And again, I'm not even sure it's a good idea that anyone go anyway, just a suggestion when she starts her blahblahblah about the trip.

You are going to have to be rock solid in what your boundaries are and stay by them no matter what.

You have to convince yourself that you are through being disrespected and deserve better than this. Do NOT let her guilt you into anything (and you should have NO guilt about this anyway).

I have been composing what I want to say to my wife. I like to write things down before I say them, it helps organize my thoughts. Would you recommend I give this to her written or orally? I am also planning on calling the OM's W tomorrow morning. As usual, any feedback is appreciated.



All through this process I have only talked to you. I have listened and tried to understand your point of view, what you were and are feeling, and why you did the terrible thing you did. However, your view of things isn’t exactly impartial. So I described our current situation on a couple of infidelity forums on the internet. The feedback I got was overwhelming – I received many statements of compassion for what I am going through from people that have been there and done that. I also got many strongly worded suggestions on how I should handle things from here, again from people that have already gone down this road. These suggestions make a lot of sense to me.

First of all, I take more than half the responsibility for the state of our marriage prior to the affair.
I have recognized this and have taken steps to address the issue.

I will remind you again that I did not take the same action as you did when I became unhappy with our relationship.

The affair:
What you did was cruel, dishonest, and hurtful.
You showed incredibly poor judgement in starting your affair. This was the worst thing you possibly could have done to address your unhappiness. You had many more constructive options you could have taken. When there is trouble in a marriage, you turn towards your spouse, not away from them. I have always been here to talk to you, I would have liked to have the opportunity to fix things before you strayed. If you had approached me then and said we are through unless we fix this and/or go to counseling, that would have gotten my attention.
You chose to betray me repeatedly over the course of years. These are years filled with cheating, lies and deceitfulness. Our lives together have been a sham during this time. Anniversaries, birthdays, Christmases between us were phony.
You made the decision to do this hurtful thing, and only you can take the blame and responsibility for it.
You have betrayed me, our marriage and your children. You have shown you have no respect for me. Someone that says they think the world of me wouldn’t have done this. I am deeply humiliated by what you have done. I am resentful of the pain you have caused me, and hole you have ripped in my heart, and the memories you have given me that I will take to my grave.
Particularly cruel and heartless was having sex with him in our house and especially our bed. Your’s and OM's failure to show respect to me or my feelings on this matter calls into question the moral character of both of you. You seriously defiled our marriage by being a willing partner in that act. When I first brought it up, your reaction was “what’s the big deal?”, further showing your disrespect and lack of caring for my feelings. I now question your ability to guide our children in being moral after doing this.
Nothing I did or didn’t do justified what you did. You have done 10 times the damage to our relationship that I ever did.
He is your friend? Would a friend truly lead another friend down such a destructive path? He was involved in this for his own selfish needs, just as you were. Two families could be destroyed as a result of both of yours selfish and self-centered actions.
This was not a good relationship. He is not your “soulmate”, there is no such thing. People are different and work together to meet each other’s needs and care for each other. The affair relationship was built on lies, dishonesty, and selfishness. I don’t see the attraction to it.

My position now:
I realize now I have too much respect for myself to allow this to continue. I deserve better than this.
Your outlook on this is clouded by your feelings for the affair. I will not let your continued poor judgement decide how we will handle this.
No contact starts now. You call him today and tell him it’s over – no more visits or trips. The last time you saw him was last Saturday. You will never see him again.
You must cancel your trip. Your recent behavior gives me no reason to trust you. This trip can easily be rescheduled, I will be happy to learn scuba diving and go with you on future trips.
I will not allow you to continue to damage this relationship and this family with your behavior.
These items are non-negotiable. You forfeited your to right to make demands or dictate terms when you started this affair.
Our reconciliation cannot start until you agree to these things.
YOU have to decide you want to work on this relationship, YOU have to give 200% of yourself to repairing my hurt and showing true guilt and remorse, YOU have to be highly committed and motivated to start a new relationship with me. Or we have no future together.

The future:
I still love you and I am still interested in making this work. I will be patient and work with you and care for you as long as the above conditions are met.
Our previous relationship is dead, we need to start a new one based on trust, honesty, respect and caring for the other person. It’s up to you.

Just a couple of things.

Don't tell her you are taking this stand after getting feedback from the internet. She will likely dismiss you. If anything, say you've discussed this with friends or people who have gone through infidelity in their marriage.

Don't say, "you must cancel your trip," but rather, "your trip is off." If she says she's going anyway, tell her the locks will be changed, her cards will be canceled, and her checking account transferred once she leaves. Also inform her parents and OM. Take all the evidence you have and forward the emails, or put the printouts in a safe location. She will likely deny everything if you tell anyone else about her affair. It's good to have some proof stashed away that they can't run from.

Please don't send that. It is FULL of disrespectful judgements. Read the section here on disrespectful judgements.

I agree with Jim that you shouldn't say anything about the internet. Wayward spouses never appreciate input from strangers.

Instead tell her that the trip with her lover is a dealbreaker for you.

And call the OM's wife as soon as you can. That may end the affair. Be prepared with some proof, and tell her you want to save your marriage, and protect your family.

Unfortunately I already told her about getting this information from these forums. I told her earlier in the day I wanted to talk to her, she later approached me and asked what about, and I said I had been getting some feedback from others on our situation from forums such as these. She did make a comment that other people don't know our situation so have no right to make judgments. I don't have anyone I can talk to about this.

I did originally print the emails out, when I first confronted her and we talked for while, she asked for them back and I gave them to her. I did not make copies. I later checked her email account again and she had deleted all of the offending emails.

I also no longer monitor her computer, I didn't see the need in it since I revealed how I found out. I know now I should have not done all of these things, but hindsight is golden as they say. My continuing to want to trust her has hurt me again.

I'm doing the best I can, but feel a great deal of despair at this moment.

Okay, well what is done is done. But waywards never seem to like us at first. We have had some come and post, and many are still posting. But I would not invite her right now, because she will be able to see your plans.

You have to be calm and think this out. It is completely inappropriate for her to go on the trip. Imagine if it was you that had the affair - do you think your wife would happily agree for you to head out with your lover?

Even her THINKING that this would be okay shows how fogged out she is. You might want to post over on General Questions II where there is more traffic. But I know everyone will be against the trip.

Here is what the Harleys say -

Dr. Harley in Coping with Infidelity: Part 2
How Should Affairs End?


Never see or communicate with a former lover

Once an affair is first revealed, whether it's discovered or admitted, the victimized spouse is usually in a state of shock. The first reaction is usually panic, but it's quickly followed by anger. Divorce and sometimes even murder are contemplated. But after some time passes (usually about three weeks), most couples decide that they will try to pull together and save their marriage.

The one having an affair is in no position to bargain, but he or she usually tries anyway. The bargaining effort usually boils down to somehow keeping the lover in the loop. You'd think that the unfaithful spouse would be so aware of his or her weaknesses, and so aware of the pain inflicted, that every effort would be made to avoid further contact with the lover as an act of thoughtfulness to the stunned spouse. But instead, the unfaithful spouse argues that the relationship was "only sexual" or was "emotional but not sexual" or some other peculiar description to prove that continued contact with the lover would be okay.

Most victimized spouses intuitively understand that all contact with a lover must end for life. Permanent separation not only helps prevent a renewal of the affair, but it is also a crucial gesture of consideration to someone who has been through ******. What victimized spouse would ever want to know that his or her spouse is seeing or communicating with a former lover at work or in some other activity?

In spite of career sacrifices, friendships, and issues relating to children's schooling, I am adamant in recommending that there be no contact with a former lover for life. For many, that means a move to another state. But to do otherwise fails to recognize the nature of addiction and its cure.

<snip>

We don't know if R.J. still sees his lover, but he says he has broken off all contact. In many cases where a person is still in town, that's hard to prove. But one thing's for sure, if he ever does see his lover, it will put him in a state of perpetual withdrawal from his addiction, and make the resolution of his marriage essentially impossible. In fact, one of the reasons he is not recovering after three months of separation may be that he is not being truthful about the separation.

Entire article at: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5060_qa.html


Mimi wrote: Check this out from the How to Survive an Affair chapter in HIS NEEDS, HER NEEDS..one of my favorite pieces of reading material...

p. 177

...I have seen husbands build new and wonderful relationships with their wives but then go back to their lovers after five or six years of what appeared to be marital bliss. When I ask them why, they inevitably tell me they miss the woman terribly and still love her. At the same time they stoutly affirm they love their wives dearly and would not think of leaving them.

I believe a man like this has told the truth. He is hopelessly entangled and needs all the help possible to be kept away from his lover and stay faithful to his wife. I often recommend that a man once involved in an affair come in to see me every three to six months on an indefinite basis, just to talk about how things are going and to let me know how successfully he has stayed away from his lover. He must resign himself to a lifetime without her. HE MUST CERTAINLY NOT WORK WITH HIS FORMER LOVER AND SHOULD PROBABLY LIVE IN SOME OTHER CITY OR STATE. Even with those restrictions the desire for her company persists...

you can most likely retrieve many of those e-mails. I did with help from people on this forum.

Post a query on general questions, infidelity about retrieving deleted e-mails, describe your computer set-up and you will get help on retrieving them.
Lake

"Close Microsoft Outlook.

This registry "hack" works in all version from Outlook 98 and up.

Start the registry editor (regedit.exe).

Go to the follwing key in the registry.

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Exchange\Client\Options

On the edit menu, click add value and the following registry value: Value name: DumpsterAlwaysOn Type: DWORD Set the data value to 1.

exit the registry editor.

This should allow you to recover deleted items that no longer reside in "deleted items"

Restart microsoft outlook.

To use the newly enable recovery feature: Go to the directory they were stored in: (inbox, etc...) Select the Tools menu. Select Recover Deleted items, a new dialog box will appear and recently deleted items for that folder will magically appear, If you want the buttons will give you the option to recover them. This will work in ALL folders."


This is the assistance I received from Walking the Field to recover e-mails.
Lake

His WW was using a Yahoo! account. Any tips for that?

Also, I know that you are a mess right now, but you can't go around half cocked. You need to get a plan to start exposing the affair to everyone in a position to pressure it to end. Her friends, her family, your pastor (if you go to church), OMW, OM's parents, anyone and everyone. She must not know you are going to do this, and it must be done quickly. Get the assistance of a PI to track these people down if you have to. You can use the money you are saving on your WW's next SCUBA trip to pay for one. You must remain strong and firm in your resolve. She is going to do everything possible not to lose her lover.

Don't let your WW manipulate you any more. She is gaslighting you.


Soung familiar?