This is how the Dr. Harley puts it -

"My advice is to write a final letter in a way that the victimized spouse would agree to send it. It should begin with a statement of how selfish it was to cause those they loved so much pain, and while marital reconciliation cannot completely repay the offense, it's the right thing to do. A statement should be made about how much the unfaithful spouse cares about his spouse and family, and for their protection, has decided to completely end the relationship with the lover. He or she has promised never to see or communicate with the lover again in life, and asks the lover to respect that promise. Nothing should be said about how much the lover will be missed. After the letter is written, the victimized spouse should read and approve it before it is sent."

It's been my experience while reading here that the WS is more likely to refuse to send a NC letter, than to agree to send one knowing that they will continue to have contact. I'm sure there are exceptions, and am wondering about others' experiences.

I saw a NC letter posted here today that began with "Congratulations on your award", and was immediatlely followed up with another email. Maybe we need to discuss NC letters.


________________________________________

I think I agree with you.
In my case, my H never agreed to write such a letter. He came back home as a "sacrifies" to his own "happiness" and although he promised NC and was very good at keeping it (only one attempted (but failed) contact after 6 months NC), I see his refusal to write an NC letter as protective to OW. He told me that it was cruiel to do such a thing to anybody.
Well, our recovery is bumpy to say the least. This March WH tried to call after 6 months NC. OW wouldn't respond. Didn't respond to his call. Didn't respond to his email. Those calls and emails are only plantonic, like how are you doing, etc. But OW refused to respond. Only after this incident, WH seemed to wake up more and started to really see where his future lies. During all those times when he was foggy, thinking he was sacrifying himself to stay with me and the kids, he was putting some effort, but he was emotionally still distant and couldn't really meet my needs much. After his last attempted contact failed, he started to show his H side and I'm seeing my husband more and more.
When I asked about NC letter again, he said he would think about it, but he felt that since she was mainaing NC herself, it might have negative effects if she got a letter from him at this time. It's already a year from Dday and they haven't seen each other for 10 months and haven't talked in any way for 8 months. At this late in the game, I do see an NC letter from H as not very useful. But his resistance still made me feel very unsafe.
I would say, yes, if they are unwilling to write an NC letter, recovery is going to be harder, not impossible, but much harder.

LA


LA

Yep, that was my WH who sent that email. He is still learning about the whole MB process. I showed him all the posts from the responses I got and he is understanding more and more. I agree about the acknowledgment of the award being inappropriate to say and would have asked him to keep that out had I known he was planning to send it when he did. It completely made no sense for him to have that in there, but we are learning and have not ever had to go through something like this. I know he was planning to send it, but she had called him twice already yesterday morning which was the first contact that had been attempted in a few months and I think he felt (because of a mandatory meeting tomorrow that they are both required to attend) like he had to do something immediately. I let him know three months ago after finding MB that he needed to do a NC letter, but his decision was otherwise. He clearly had no idea what to say but I am proud that he sent it anyway.

It's tough because we are searching tirelessly for another job for him and although through the other posts in that thread that we realize that we are not following MB principles to a "t" because he has not taken drastic measures- as I said in those posts, we have agreed to where we are now and are working extremely hard on our marriage. As well as that I have agreed no longer to seek advice until we are ready to follow MB to a "T". We realize that nothing will get 100% until he or she leaves the job, but we are confident in where we are headed at this point.

Please, I would love for others' input on how NC letters should be worded. He can't just quit at this point and work at Walmart...if Dr. Harley is convinced that living on the street is better than what we are doing right now, then that's his opinion. I have no desire to raise my children on the street. We realize the importance of our marriage and the principles of MB. We are in counseling with tons of support.

Do I believe OW is gone? Not in the least, but we also realize that we won't be 100% until the job changes.

I apologize for going OT a bit. But I wanted to let you know that I will certainly be looking for further input on this thread...Thanks.

Well, jlashley, we'll give him credit for sending a nc letter. There are many who refuse. I HAVE seen marriages recover without the NC letter, but for me it is a litmus test of how serious the WS is about working on the relationship.

My WH absolutely refused to send one, saying it was pointless. He was right about that, as it turned out, they never stopped having contact.

jashley, please understand that there are not DEGREES of recovery when one is still in contact with his OW. You are either in recovery or you aren't. Rather, there is NO RECOVERY. Recovery is IMPOSSIBLE as long as they are still in contact.

This would be like an alcoholic simply changing the name of his drinks to "business drinks." He will never sober up. He will never recover. Just cutting back a little and calling his drinks a new name does not mean he is "50% recovered;" he is not even IN recovery. He has continued drinking and when the inevitable weak moment collides with opportunity - and it will! - he will be to binge drinking. In order to recover he has to leave the BAR and adhere to complete abstinence.

It has nothing to do with following MB principles to a "T" it only means your marriage is not in recovery. You don't have to follow ANY MB principles at all, that is not the issue. The issue is very simply that there will be no recovery until contact ends.

jlashley,

ML is right....you're not yet in recovery. However, you are taking steps in the right direction. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> The danger is that if you accept less than absolute no contact....that it slowly falls off the table and "looking for a new job" gets put on the back burner. It's amazingly easy to fall into old patterns, once the conflict of D-day calms down a bit. Don't let that happen. Changing jobs has to be a non-negotiable item....even if it means tighting the budget or making some sacrifices....it's better than sacrificing your marriage....and it's way cheaper than divorce.

Keep heading in the right direction! Don't settle. Good Luck.

I didn't have a chance to post to you earlier today but was thinking EXACTLY as Mel...

I hurt so much for you 'cause you're not IN RECOVERY....

First, there's WITHDRAWAL and that is not over until 3 to 6 months of ABSOLUTELY NC with the OW...any contact whatsoever starts WITHDRAWAL all over again....you've probably not even SEEN SIGNS OF WITHDRAWAL YET..cause he is relieved from this NOW...

I'm not all that PROUD about him sending a NC LETTER...

I firmly believe in NC LETTERS..they are the WS' TESTIMONY of the need to end the affair...

But along with the NC LETTER there's a need for ABSOLUTE, NO EXCUSES CONVICTION and COMMITMENT to NC with the OP FOR LIFE...

My H actually sent TWO LETTERS..that I READ..that I know of...but still went back to her TWO TIMES....before our REAL RECOVERY....

So what you have is a TIME BOMB..as MEL is indicating...the A has a high likelihood of starting again at any moment..and it can even be an even STRONGER YEARNING that he is developing for HER..sad for me to say to you...but I lived it...

You best believe that she is after him big time and will use whatever tactic that she can think of to lure him back in...

HE HAS TO TAKE DRASTIC MEASURES..to end the A..there's no way to get around that...just like he took DRASTIC MEASURES to have an A...

In order to SAVE YOUR MARRIAGE, for your own SELF RESPECT, I think that you should not be accepting of this situation...

I don't understand how you can live with your H in CONTACT with someone who tried to DESTROY YOU and YOUR FAMILY....



You know that Dr. Harley doesnt' want this..he wants your family to be together..that is the purpose of his approach..

Why don't you give the MB Counseling Center a call and see what they have to say?

Addressing your initial point Believer - My wife never sent a NC letter. We had not found MB at that time. OM did contact her a few times in the week after she came home.

By 6 weeks or so when I found MB, NC was well established and sending a NC letter didn't seem to make much sense. I doubt she would have done one even then. She would have seen it as punitive. She was obsessed for a long time with apologising to OM - something I would not permit.

If I had found MB on d-day, I would have insisted on a NC letter but 6 weeks later it didn't seem necessary.

I have not regretted that.

jashley, we are not telling you this because we are purists or hardasses, but because we know - FROM EXPERIENCE - that what you are doing won't work. There are 4,5,10 yr affairs on this board who are living examples of what happened when contact was continued. Unfortunately, this is a corner that cannot be cut.

Where will you be working when your H divorces you because of a long term affair? Putting the job above the marriage is a huge mistake, jashley, and we are not exaggerating.


This is one of the reasons WHY he is "adamant" about no contact. He doesn't want you and your children living on the street. He wants you to STAY MARRIED.

Big K - After NC is established, I see no need for a letter either, especially since you didn't find MB.

Mimi - So your hubby DID write a NC letter and then continued seeing the OW? That destroys my theory, because it has been my experience that they will usually refuse to send one if they are not serious.

Generally speaking, if they refuse to send the letter, that indicates they aren't really sincere. That doesn't guarantee there won't be relapses, though. It is just a generalization, not a hard and fast RULE that is blown by an exception.

Sorry that I wasn't clearer.

He was SINCERE/SERIOUS..BOTH..times...

But as Mel says, he RELAPSED..cause she came after him...broke through and of course he was vulnerable...

What's ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY is the LETTER along with EXTRAORDINARY PRECAUTIONS...

BOTH..not one without the other...

Oh, I see. I'm just mulling this around in my brain. It seems like it would be easier for them to fool the BS by just writing the letter. But for some reason, they usually refuse if they are not serious.

Often they don't want to "hurt" the OW (yea, what about the BS). Or like my WS, they say it is pointless.

Okay, well now I am depressed again. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" /> I know you guys mean the absolute best and I get what you are saying. I suppose I am in my own denial?? I don't know. Does that what it sounds like? I am sad that you are sad for me. WH and I talked last night and he (because of finding out that he is not the first) now feels like he has been played. I told him to join the club! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smirk.gif" alt="" />

I will print these out for him and see what he has to say about them. Believe me, I would gladly call Dr. Harley if I even had half the amount it costs or the resources to get it. That is why we are getting ready to begin meeting with a couple from our church who have been through something similar.

Any advice as to what I may be going through in order to convince myself that this is okay would be great...is it denial?

Thanks in advance...

I think its a desire to take the easy way out, which most of us want to do. Unfortunately, you will find that this is not the easy way out, but the path to DIVORCE.

I would strongly recommend that you call up her H and tell him about the 2 affairs, jashley, so the man can protect himself. If the last BS had done that you might not be in this horrid position today. He has a right and a NEED to know just like you did.

Okay, either I worded that wrong or am completely missing what you are trying to say. Let me try to rephrase it so I can figure out which one it is... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

What I meant to ask is from what you guys are reading when I post, what does it seem like I am doing to convince myself that this is okay? Am I in denial that this is okay or is it something else? Or, did I completely misunderstand what you said ML? ARGH! I am so confused...

j, you already know you are trying to convince yourself this is ok. You know the answer to that better than us.

If you knew what WE KNOW you would not do that. There is a very good reason why Dr. Harley, who has been doing this for 30 years is ADAMANT that all contact ends.

Okay, well I guess I am not really doing that intentionally...or I don't think that I am. I guess I am feeling that way because WH has been meeting the EN's that weren't being met before and because we seem to be on the same page. I now can understand that until we are on the same page with everything, this can not ever go away. I have emailed him to get the email of the co-worker who gave him all the info on OW's previous stint with the other guy and I will email her to see if she knows any contact for OWH. I have no idea how to contact OWH since I don't know his name or anything else.

Okay, I'm confused. You list your D-day as 1/07. So that means there has continued to be non-work related contact for 6 months, right? Even the no contact letter (followed by 2 more contacts), started out with congratulations.

And now you think that they can continue working together without continuing the affair? I would ask hubby HOW he can guarantee that will happen.

I have a suggestion. Do this NOW without telling your H. Tell him afterwards. He will be tempted to WARN the OW to pre-empt you and this will quickly become a disaster. Look up her name in the phone book or in www.peoplefinders.com and get her H's name.