Ok, so I would like to know how to approach this. There is this questionable "Chick" in the HR Dept. at my husbands work who has been screening people for a new position that will report to him. I told him that I had to get onto his work email so I can get our trip info. I came accross an email exchange that is shady to say the least. It starts out where he is setting up his calandar so she can view (understandable becasue she needs to know when he is available for interviews)then she is like "great, now I can add important dates like my birthday to your calandar?" and he was like "ok, but doesn't HR usually announce events?" and she was like"just kidding" and he said "me too" and she ended with 'we can have fun" <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/mad.gif" alt="" /> WTF. I confronted him about it and he didn't seem to think it was a big deal and he said "well did you see my response back to her?" I told him that he needs to shut her down quick and he said that she hired somebody so she can start sending him emails now. This is still upsetting me and I don't know how to handle it. I don't want to seem insecure, but I am nagged by wondering if she is still going to send him emails. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

That's how my wife's affair started.

"Harmless" flirting.

My theory is "if it feels like a punch in the stomach, it usually is" I would tell him that he needs to keep those emails to her professional, ignore any personal stuff that she sends in her email. Obviously she is comfortable enough to send him stuff like that so now its his job to make that uncomfortable for her to do.

I think the difficulty is in intrepretting the email. This may not even be flirting. That’s stuff I may say to my sister, or one of my coworkers, and I don’t flirt. It really depends on the people involved. My team at work likes to have fun and play jokes. So, we would go in and add all kinds of dates to the calendars if we could. Have you met the woman? Does she have a reputation?

My DH got sucked into an EA in the same type of manner. Women know how to twist words in the right way to appear innocent yet enticing at the same time. Follow your intstinct. nip this email exchanging in the bud.

Mine too. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

oh yea, the 'harmless flirting'...

My WXH had several office affairs. Of course ALL of them started with 'harmless flirting' and 'harmless' going out to lunch together, and then sometimes (if I found out) the 'harmless' complaining to each other about my 'jealousy' over their 'harmless' 'friendship'....

"Women know how to twist words in the right way to appear innocent yet enticing at the same time."

Ah but if you try to tell your WH that he will insist the OW is completely innocent and pure - a 'good girl' even. And then he will treat you as if you are some wicked witch for daring to imply anything sneaky about her. I think it's because the WH doesn't want to consider that just maybe he's being played by the OW. He prefers to believe that he's just so darn charming that she can't help flirting with him - even though she's a 'good girl'. What an ego boost that must be huh? Of course anyone trying to tell the WH that the OW is not exactly a saint is basically telling him he's just behaving like a fool for the office tramp. And that's NOT an ego booster for the WH.

Oh yea, the OW at the office certainly has her routine down pat. Saccharine sweet, "who little ole me a 'bad girl'?" (while flirting with the married men).

One tip I've learned of recently (years too late for my marriage though) is to try to get your husband to have conversations with you in the morning before he goes off to work and talks to anyone else. The theory is that because men only talk so much in a given day, that if they talk to their wife first, they will have less left to say the rest of the day to coworkers. Also, I have heard/read from several sources that many men will only talk about something once or twice and that's part of the reason why when they get home to their wives they don't want to talk; they'ev already talked about everything (weather, news, work, plans, opinions, latest jokes, THEIR SCHEDULE, sometimes even feelings) with their coworkers. AND one way intimacy is built is by being the FIRST (and sometimes ONLY) person you talk to about something! Even if it's something trivial like the weather! So it is advised that the first time you talk abou ANYthing, no matter how seemingly trivial, it should be with your spouse.

OK, I'll admit the first time or two I heard this I was skeptical and well thought it was a little paranoid or something only a 'jealous' person would need to feel
secure... But after hearing the same sort of info from several sources, with the explanation of why it affects intimacy, I admit it makes sense.

And you can apply it without appearing controlling or 'suspicious' simply by starting conversations with your spouse each morning. If I had known about this sooner I would have applied it. You could get up earlier to spend time with your spouse before going to work, maybe over a nice sit-down breakfast. You could also watch (or listen to on the radio) and DISCUSS the morning news together before work. You could start a habit of calling your spouse at work or on his commute (if he's on a train or bus - not if he's driving) each morning to chat and wish him a good day, express support for any work problems he's having, tell him a joke, whatever. The more conversation he has with you before he gets to work, the less conversation he'll have with people at work. So he'll be more likely to limit his worktime conversations to work related stuff instead of 'chatting' and flirting.

It's important to get him talking - you talk just enough to keep the conversation going - about ANYTHING - and then you listen while he chats away.

Also, keep it lighthearted most of the time. I've heard relationship conversations need to be 4 parts positive and only one part about problems. And from a guys POV talking ABOUT the relationship is not usually fun. That's another reason the unsuspecting married men falsely assume the office OW has no agenda: she's careful to not send any relationship talk to his radar - she keeps it's fun and flirty (at first anyway - later they get around to complaining to each other about their respective mates - only because they want to 'help' each other though... again just 'harmless' 'friendship' stufff...

BTW, you could also (subtly) increase your e-mailing him and flirting/kidding around with him. Be careful not to make it look reactionary to the e-mailing with the gal at work thing though.

If I ever marry again, this whole office flirting thing will be discussed before I even agree to get engaged.

Have you in the past ever discussed adultery with your husband, or what each of you feel would be a valid threat to your marriage? Has the topic of what is or is not acceptable ever come up before? I've seen a list of 30-some steps leading to adultery and in all honesty my first impression was that most of those things on the least seemed harmless to me. It's a slippery slope though and the more you care about protecting your marriage the sooner you draw the line to not cross over. And maybe until we've gone through something like an adultery threatening your marriage we just don't realize the danger?

I met my WXH at work and he showered me with attention, asked me out for 6 months before I agreed to go out with him, acted like a romantic pest LOL. BUT we worked third shift in a work invironment with only a couple of other women (with me being the youngest/prettiest) so I didn't see him flirting with any other women... that came later after we were married and working together at another company. Imagine my hurt when I saw him treating LOTS of other women the way he used to treat me! (He had stopped flirting with me by then) I had thought I was special to him but I guess I wasn't after all.

And he NEVER was able to admit that the OW had their own agendas - nope they all had to remain pure and innocent in his eyes. Please be VERY careful about saying things about the OW: It hurst immensely to hear you husband defend an OW while acting like you're just some mean jealous shrew.
Try to address the issue in general terms and not make it specifically about her.

One possible way to diffuse the problem of your husband exchanging e-mails with the OW would be to ask him if she sends those sort of e-mails to other men at work? If she does he will say so in order to defend the 'innocence' of it. And maybe his realization that she is doing the same thing with other men will diffuse the flattery he may be feeling by it? If she doesn't e-mail other men he might still say she does, but he will know he is lying and then maybe be able to admit to himself that what she's doing isn't appropriate and harmless after all?

When a married person fails to see the harm they put their marriage at risk.

This site talks a lot about meeting emotional needs to try to affair proof your marriage... I feel that it is the responsibility of the person with the needs to first of all determine what their needs are, whether or not they are valid needs (or abusive expectations or bottomless pit addictions), communicate lovingly to their spouse what those needs are and how they would like to have them met, and THEN refuse to allow anyone else meet those needs, EVEN IF the spouse still is not meeting them!!!

I suspect this may be where I differ from some of the other posters here. You see I did work in the corporate environment, and I did get hit on by OM, and I DID set some very firm boundaries with those OM in order to protect my marriage. And NO my WH came nowhere near meeting my emotional needs, even after I communicated them to him. So my needs went unmet while he kept himself busy meeting the needs of the office OW and getitng his emotional needs met by them (instead of letting me do that for him).

It's a matter of integrity IMO: some people have it some don't. If your husband is basically a good man with integrity he will appreciate your concern and will care enough about you and your marriage to want to do HIS job of protecting it. And that includes protecting himself from the seemingly harmless flattery at the office.

If I had it to do over again I would have not put up with my WH accusing me of being 'jealous' and defending the OW in any way! If he wanted to whine to others (his mommy, his sisters, his OW) that he had a 'jealous' wife I should have at least made sure he was whining about his 'jealous' EX-WIFE! I guess it could be argued I have 'trust issues' now but if I marry again my husband would have to make it very clear that he sees protecting himself from temptation is HIS job. A woman married to a REAL man would not even have to play detective, worry, warn him about OW tactics...
I deserve a husband who loves me enough to protect me from the harm of adultery and I will not settle for less! THAT is a major thign I would be looking for in a husband LOL!

Just an aside: is this chick for real? She works for the HR department? Shouldn't she be the last person in the company to engage in a conduct that could be construed as "hostile environment"? I guess some HR people think that workplace policies do not apply to them.

And when will people learn that e-mail exchanges are discoverable? How many more lawsuits will have to be won due to incriminating evidence found in the e-mail, before people realize that you should not put anything in an e-mail that you wont not want to be publicized?

I agree with AverageGuy's response. Why would an HR person act like this?

IMHO, any employee who receives that type of e-mail should report her. Hm.......... This is NOT a small issue. Instead it c/b the tip of the iceberg of worse things to come.

Better to nip it in the bud, now!

JMHO,
L.

I still think it's jumping the gun to assume this is even flirting. I don't flirt at work and I'd write this kind of thing with some of the people I work with if I could add stuff to their calendar. It really depends on the context of their face-to-face interactions. This could be a major play for M's husband, or it could be blowing off steam and clowning around. And as many of us can attest, "clowning around" is not sexy. It's being one of the gang.

So, I stand by my original post. Ask around and find out more about this woman, but don't panic.

And by no stretch does it rise to the level of hostile environment or sexual harassment. It wasn't egregious or unwanted or repeated.