Post deleted by PandaBear

You need to read up on this site and continue working on yourself, but.....

Your W is having an affair. Even if it is just emotional (which I REALLY DOUBT), it is a major obstacle in your marriage. Your wife needs to cut all contact with this so called "friend" if you want your situation to improve. Don't be afraid at pissing her off. Afterall, her REAL reason for wanting to leave now is because of her feelings for her "friend." Don't be so naive. It will come back to bite you.

When I initially found out about the EA I thought it was a PA and broke down telling her my suspicions. She later told me she told the OM who was worried about them losing their friendship. She told me that she said their friendshiop was non-negotable. That final statement scares me silly. I'm as sure as I can be that she is really just good friends and they are not sexual. The OM is married with kids and claims to love his wife although his W is totally in the dark since she is insanely jeolous of him contacting other women.
I'll probably avoid an ultimatem but I will ask her to not discuss our marriage with him but I'm not sure she would stick to that although she would tell me up front if she wouldn't. She is a very honest person. Only recently has she tried keeping things private from me.

Dude...if she was with him all those days during the height of the affair, it WAS physical. I can't imagine at all how it would NOT have escalated given how long this has gone on, and how much alone time they've had.

You need to prepare yourself for this probability.

Alright, I'm going to tell you this again, and maybe you'll get it this time:

YOUR WIFE IS HAVING AN AFFAIR!

It has all the tell-tale signs. Even if it hasn't gotten physical (which I seriously doubt), it will if you allow it to continue. NC with OM is non-negotiable for you. The first thing you need to do is contact OMW. That will put an end to the visits and endless phone calls. She won't ever love you as long as OM is waiting in the wings. She is not in a position to negotiate that because she is a married woman and needs to act like one. If she refuses, you need to expose to put pressure on her to act like a married woman. Don't think for a second that your problems don't have anything to do with the OM. I would say that MOST of your problems stem from the OM.

Oh, and don't tell her you are exposing to OMW. Just do it. OMW is probably the "jealous" type because OM has fooled around on her before and he is doing it again. He doesn't want to get caught. Alert OMW and she will help take care of business. Don't be afraid of your WW.

Get over it.

1) According to your W, you've already lost her. Why fear what has already happened?
2) Heard all this myself. If she wanted to leave, she would have left. She is more afraid than you are.

Read up on the five stages of grief. You are in between denial and bargaining.

You are not a very attractive alternative to you W right now. Women don't like wimps. It's time to get tough and be strong. Be someone she can respect. You stopped believing in yourself and then so did your W. Okay. Water under the bridge. If you can't respect yourself, W won't respect you either. And she can't love someone she doesn't respect.

Are you ready for a rumble?

And change your screen name. Sorry dude but it's time to man up.

That's why I like you, Pio. You are a straight shooter who doesn't hold anything back.

Listen to angry Jim on this one. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

You HAVE to tell OMW about this. Kill this Fing A now!!!

Pio has a point too.

also -DO NOT TELL YOUR WIFE ABOUT MB. She will use it against you.

Pio has been my coach through my W's A!

He and the others makes good sense! They are speaking from experience!!!!!

"Grizzly Bear"!!!!

All joking aside, your situation is not hopeless!!!

"When I ask if she is committed to working with me and trying to regain our feelings she says she has doubts but also says “I’m still here aren’t I?”."

That is the exact thing my WH said to me. He said it before he ended the A and even though it is annoying and makes you feel like you are a back up plan, there is some truth to it. They are still there. There is a reason they haven't already left. What everyone is telling you here is so true. It isn't until the A is exposed and acknowledged that it will end. My WH was so angry when I finally started telling people. I had kept it a secret hoping we could work it out ourselves, but it won't happen. He had said if you contact her, I'm leaving. I emailed her twice making her aware that I wasn't letting her have my husband without a fight and letting her know the lies he was telling us both. She didn't respond but she told him that she couldn't win because I wasn't giving up. He didn't leave. I let people who knew her know and it was over within a couple of weeks after months of me waiting for him to do it on his own. It won't happen. They are addicted to the OP.
He is still going through withdrawel, and it hurts when he doesn't always meet my EN the way I am trying to meet his, but this to shall pass. It is getting better every day.

Kodiaks are bigger. FYI.

Some may read “I’m still here aren’t I?” as "I'm still in the relationship aren't I?"

In the infidelity arena I read this as "I'm still cake eating aren't I?"

Ah. Straight out of the WS manual. My FWH said it too... a couple of times while he was still contacting OW#1 and right before he left again to pursue OW#2.

Listen to these guys. The RED FLAGS are as big as blankets.

Thanks for the input so far, I've got a lot to think about.
I honestly don't think she has had any kind of PA or even steamy talk but has just been treating the OM as a very close friend. Still a bad situation ... I've gotten her to begin talking with her female friends more and she is now working towards a job which has obviously given her a much brighter outlook on life. For now, I'll continue to try meeting her ENs even though mine are suffering. If she is serious about the course materials maybe we'll both learn something.

Panda,

Maybe she has had a PA, maybe not. My wife didn't have an A, but she came real close. Hopefully your wife hasn't either, but my experience at MB has been that my story is very, very atypical.

I would bet money that your wife is involved in an A with this guy. I'd love to lose that bet, but I think you need to be very, very sure.

The one big, huge red flag is that she won't allow you to listen in on her calls. If she has nothing to hide, why is she hiding something?

I understand that the idea your wife might do this is hard to comprehend. I'd have never thought so of my wife, but when I snooped at her email, way back then, she had this line in an email to her ex-boyfriend: "Did you think we were going to have sex that first night?"

(Turns out the context was that he had stopped talking to her after she and her mom met with him when vacationing in his town, and she was demanding to know why he wasn't talking to her. Still, the idea that she was talking about having sex at all was very disturbing and unexpected...)

You need to make sure, absolutely sure that nothing is going on, because as long as something is going on, than nothing you do (short of breaking up the affair) will help.

If something is going on, MB has plans that can help fight the affair and win her back. But one way or another, you need to know...

Good luck...

Dude, if anyone else mentioned the same things to you about their W, what would be the first thought that passed through your mind?

IMO your W is having an A with that man, and if she insisted on going alone on those weekenders to see him, it's quite likely a PA as well.

Here's the thing: it will be very difficult to recover your M if the A is not dealt with first. It will also be very difficult to recover your M if you feel that your W is not being honest with you about the extent of her relationship with the OM.

Two years ago, I was where you are now. My FWW gave me the "I love you but I'm not in love with you" speech, that our M was basically over and had been so for years. Then a few days later she finally admitted the truth about her "great friend from the office" after I raised the question several times....

Get a digital voice activated recorder at radio shack - put it where she talks on her phone. If you hide it in her car- hide it well. Use duck tape and tape it under the seat or somewhere she won't find it.

You need to call his wife - now. She needs to know. She will probably be your helper in keeping them apart. Dr. Harley says no contact with former lovers - that means the ones from high school too. My H had an A with his old gf. They 'just talked' - when they weren't together.

The odds that she is not sleeping with him are slim to none.

I agree on changing your screen name, too.

You have come to the best place for help. Can you call the Harley's? That would be the best suggestion you will get here.