The affair has been over for almost four years. Wife did a relatively good job in ending the relationship with her OM. She tries to meet my ENs and I do the same for her.

I never talk about the affair anymore, it seems like I have no further need or curiosity. I am feeling quite happy once again and it is a wonderful change.

My wife perceives that I am not that much into her because I am acting normal once again. Her insecurity is showing up again and this time it seems to be worse because she expects me to pull the plug on the marriage at any time. I don’t want to divorce her, but she DJs me and feels I would like to leave her.

So now, she is the one looking over her shoulder even though I did not have the affair. Meeting her ENs is now harder because she expects a lot to satisfy her insecurity regarding the marriage.

Maybe she assumes I can never love her like I used to.

From my side the only thing that I miss is the concept that I had a wife that was 100% trustworthy. Maybe she knows I see her in a different light.

I am lost

Can you talk to your wife and tell her what you just wrote here?

It's okay to see her in a different light and not to trust her 100%.

Putting someone on a pedestal is a grave diservice to them. I can think of no greater testamony of love than to see your spouse in all their failings and frailties and love them still.

This is marriage, this is true love...the kind that endures and the kind that allows people to make mistakes and to grow from those mistakes, knowing they are still loved and valued.

The beginning love where we project a pedestal image of our loved one is not real, and praises should be sang for those who stay together long enough for true/real love to happen.

Talk to your wife about this. Let each other know that with all your mistakes and changes and forgiving, you will both grow as will your marriage.

This is the kind of assurance I think I would need were I in her shoes.

You don't see her the same way, nor should you, but you love her and plan to remain married to her all of your life and together you will grow.

We grow through lessons learned. And we learn to love better after we have learned how to forgive.

We have talked about everything except that theme. However, I mentioned the high pedestal thing and that I missed that sensation. Perhaps she was disappointed with my words.

It may also be possible that she cannot believe I stayed married and needs further reassurance. At this point I don’t know how to give her more reassurance. In the past when I was depressed and unable to eat she saw that as a sign for my love for her. But, now that I act normal and happy she assumes that I probably don’t love her anymore.

I will admit my love is not like it used to. I have lost the innocence and there is a cynical aspect to how I see my marriage. I know quite well it would be easy to end the marriage if she strays again. This is something I told her more than once and perhaps she sees that as a sign of less love from my part.

Despite the fact that I am quite happy I will always carry a scar and that has caused a change in my personality. It is also quite weird to remain married to someone that I would not choose as a mate if I could go back in time.

Maybe this is just another phase of recovery.

We try to deal with this by doing ENs, but despite meeting ENs there seems to be something missing from my part and probably from her part as well. Our relationship seems mechanical and the moments of bliss are few in between. Sometimes I fake bliss and I am sure she fakes bliss as well (probably more than me).

How does a woman respect a man that she was unfaithful to? I am sure she sees me in a different light.

What have you and your wife done (Harley's principles) to recover the marriage post-affair?

Jo

"What have you and your wife done (Harley's principles) to recover the marriage post-affair?"

Just about everything and then some more. However, she seems different. I think we were always a mismatch, but somehow made it work. Then we got older and she was bored and voilá; she had the affair. I have concluded that she always had a different outlook and this has become very obvious post affair. Maybe I overlooked everything before.

What's not to respect? You honored your marriage vows. I find that highly honorable.

Respect would be more a problem of she respecting herself, not you.

Respect comes from within. You have self-respect so you act in accordance with your values, you uphold your vows, you do no harm, you treat people with respect, you treat yourself and your body with respect, etc.

It is impossible to not have respect for a man who honors his vows, but it highly possible to have so little self-respect that you would break your vows (her).

You got it backwards a little bit, but I know what you are saying. A woman doesn't normally feel love for a man she cannot respect.

You have not acted without self-respect so if she doesn't respect you, it is an inner short-coming of hers, stemming from her own lack of self-respect.

And no I'm not drinking, just having a little trouble making any sense. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

I think that quite a few WW's and FWW's will never respect their partner again. I think they have created a Catch 22 in that in order for a BH to move past an infidelity they have to accept some pretty unacceptable things. The fact that your wife is acting like she is now shows that she is not very mature. I can tell you that reading your posts makes me think that she is either involved in another affair or contemplating getting one started. Some things in her behaviors point to this as far as I am concerned.
She most likey has some pretty low self esteem and seeks out others to make herself feel worthy... always a losing battle btw.
You need to have a heart to heart with your wife and let her know that you are having these feelings. It is also okay to have the feelings that your M is a bit tarnished, because it is. An affair leaves scars...it takes away a certain amount of respect and innocence... things can replace those things that are lost, but I would be more worried about you if you came on here and talked about how she is so trust worthy and ...
I would make a point to do a little snooping right now. It can't hurt and frankly it is prudent to do so when you have a known "problem".

Best of luck to you.

MEDC

Great point about respect. I think she resents that I have self-respect. She would probably like me more if I had been a cheater like her.

There is a little bit of a difference in class between us and maybe she resents that too. She must have been resentful to have an affair. Don't you think?

I don't know. There are many men on this site who society wiew as incredibly good catches...intelligent, incredible jobs, loving, interesting, fun, and still their wives cheated.

I think some women just need to struggle and if their marriage is not enough of a struggle because they have actually married great men, they will go out and find a reason to struggle. All humans need to struggle to a certain extent, we need a challenge, we need a certain level of excitment and if that need isn't met in healthy ways it will be met in unhealthy ways.

I don't know if she resented you or not.

Mrs W. would be a perfect one to talk to about this as she is a RWW and has a very good recovered marriage now.

MEDC, in disagreement with you a little about marriage forever being tarnished and respect never being the same...the W's, Mel and Pep all have great respect in their recovered marriages and seem to have great marriages now. As does Bob Pure and others I can't quite think of right this second.

If not for them I would not be getting married soon, I would be too jaded. So thank God for recovered great marriages. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I_won,

""It is also quite weird to remain married to someone that I would not choose as a mate if I could go back in time.""

Very harsh statement, but of course why would any one marry if they already knew the spouse was going to be unfaithful?

I am 3 years out from my Dday (Memorial day of 2004) and I too have that scar and feel my personality has changed.

Your post is very thought provoking. I too feel the loss of the innocence and there is now a cynical aspect as to how I see ALL marriages.

""Our relationship seems mechanical and the moments of bliss are few in between. Sometimes I fake bliss and I am sure she fakes bliss as well (probably more than me).""

Please define bliss.

I do not understand now that you are happy and "normal" she feels you don't love her. Did she say that to you?

""How does a woman respect a man that she was unfaithful to? I am sure she sees me in a different light.""

This hit me like a ton of bricks.

Down deep in a section of our heart of hearts we BHs feel (know?) that we took the wimpy path and did not kick the unfaithful b**** to the curb.

I think your statement opens up that section and requires an answer. An honest answer.

I often wonder if the roles were reversed, and I was the wayward one, would I have been kicked to the curb??????

And if not, could I still respect my betrayed spouse??

Very interesting post in my humble opinion. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

kirk

I find this so sad, that deep down you guys feel this way.

I think the perception of respect and what it means to honor your vows even though your spouse did not, is somewhat askew.

Think about why you wanted to save your marriage in the first place. If it were only about not wanting to be jilted, or about your egos then yes I would say you did not act in honour. You betrayed your own values. You disrespected yourself.

However, if it was about the vows you made, your children, your legacy, your love of your wife (as Ap put it, he knew his wife would be hurt had he let her go with OM).

Think of the big picture you guys. You acted with honor and with strength. How your wives would have acted if the tables had been turned is a mute point. It matters not.

Your life is and always will be between you and your God. And for me, I can't think of anything sexier, more admirable, more worthy of respect than a man who has stood by his children, and their mother even through the mistakes, the hits to the ego, the emotional devastation, etc.

I think you need to change your perception a little bit and quit looking at yourselves as someone who settled for less, but as someone who refused to settle for what the wayward mindset was laying on your doorstep.

In my context bliss means a state of being 100% in love with no doubts. It also implies some degree of fantasy and the whole soul-mate enchilada. Lets not forget that the lovers in the affair feel this way 24/7.



Regarding the issue of respect:

I would say a woman respects a man who is faithful a whole lot more than a philanderer, there is no doubt about that.

The question is:

Who gains greater respect?

The H that stays married despite the infidelity or the H that ends the marriage in an honorable manner because the breach of the vows is simply too much to accept.

Would my wife think I am a greater man if I had ended the marriage? Or did she assume I am kind of wimpy so I will forgive and forget?

Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

A one time abhoration of character is a mistake. If you cannot forgive enough a one time mistake resulting from ignorance, poor boundaries, unmet needs...than you are not worthy of respect. Forgiveness takes a great deal of strength, not something a person of weakness is capable of.

If you let someone walk all over you and treat you like a POS... cheating on you (as a way of life), violating your marriage contract, showing your children a twisted model of marriage...well yes then I would say you are a whimp.

Weaver,

Don't be sad!! <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Down deep and in the whole picture I am very very glad I stayed with the marriage, we are happy and laugh and most all things are better than they were. I love my wife dearly and can not imagine my life without her.

But...way, way, far down deep in our heart of hearts there is a little tiny, eensy weeensy section of our primeval brain stem that harbors this feeling of wimping out.

It is a male, manly man type of thang, having to do with pride and the emotion or hormone that makes the bighorn ram smash his head into another ram time and time again for dominance of the herd.

""jilted"" Does not even come light years from what I am trying to convey.

I_won's post is thought provoking is all I am saying, specially for one that is some years out from Dday.

kirk

I find this comment very rude. A BS that decides that they do not want to remain married to someone that cheated on them is not worthy of respect??? Is that your implication here? I sure hope not. Even Dr. H has said he would divorce int he face of infidelity. A ONE TIME MISTAKE does not do an affair justice...most affairs are not one time mistakes... they are a series of deliberate acts. But even so, you way of thinking is that if a BS kicks a WS to the curb... which by the way is a very healthy thing to do...that they are unworthy of respect??? Please say it ain't so!

2 questions, please.


What do you mean by this exactly? How did she end it and when was the last time she ever spoke to or saw him?

Were you and your wife ever in love?

Do you "try" or do you succeed? There really is a big difference. Do you KNOW what the others top 5 EN's are?


Is it "normal" that you would not be "that be that much into her?" If she percieves you are not "into her" that could be a huge problem. In order to be happy, she should feel you are very much into her.


The fact that she feels "insecure" tells me there is something wrong here. The fact that she lovebusts you is a problem. What are you doing to make her feel less "insecure?" What is she doing about her lovebusting?


It doesn't sound to me like y'all are using Marriage Builders principles at all. THAT is the problem. You can't very well fall in love with each other if she feels insecure, you feel angry, and she lovebusts you.


This is an unrealistic expectation that you should have never had in the first place. You should have never trusted her 100%. That being said, a great deal of your trust should have been restored if she has demonstrated trustworthy behavior for 4 years. Has she?


But why? Iwon, I don't see any indication at all that y'all have instituted MB principles. Why not give them a try?

Why would she be looking over her shoulder? For what?

I meet her ENs more than I ever did during the first two decades of our marriage. She was quite happy with the marriage. The affair developed because of boredom and your typical MLC.

You must understand that she has a voracious need for some ENs and this need has gone through the stratosphere following d-day. I suspect she was always insecure and now her insecurity level is even higher. This insecurity is not related to what I don’t say or do. I simply cannot give her any more reassurance. She is insecure because she knows the marriage was heavily damaged and she assumes that most men would have walked away from the marriage.




My actions must be extraordinary at all times, otherwise, she is pouting. She also believes I could be prone to have an affair. In this regard she is correct. D-day changed me as a person and she knows I could be at risk of having an affair. One could say that like all good wayward spouses she has her radar working 24/7 regarding the possibility of an affair. Remember, no one is more vigilant about the spouse having an affair than a philanderer.



It can be quite tiring to be told that one is not romantic enough on an almost daily basis. I see that as love busting. This criticism takes all the spontaneity away.

She ended the relationship with OM about as well as can be expected and as far as I can tell is not having any contact. OM has contacted her a few times and so far she always tells me about it.

I believe she is genuinely remorseful.

The last time she spoke with OM was when he followed her and tried to have a conversation in a store. My wife said she was very forceful in telling OM to disappear. She admitted that up until that point she had avoided harsh words to ease the pain of OM. This was about six moths ago.