OK SMB

Michele and I've been 'doin' da bump'. Pulled a muscle last week so I can't do da bump much longer. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif" alt="" />

On July 24, over 2 weeks ago, you said:


Later on that same day you said:


This post would indicate your vacation started Thurs. Aug. 2 but we never heard if you accomplished these 3 things or not.

If you're not posting because you're on vacation, that's great. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" />

But if you're avoiding conflict because things have gone south OR you just haven't gotten around to making the decision to act on all the fine advice folks have made time to help you with, we are all concerned.

Please check in either way. We'll all help you eat your words again.....like we did last time. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Ace

Ace & MicheleG,

I just got a big hug from both of you when I saw that you checked up on me. I have been lurking some, but wasn't ready to post. We just returned from a family vacation, where I did a lot of reflecting.

I did talk with H that night about my needs and gave him my letter. I was disappointed and saddened but not all that surprised by his response. Here's his response to each of my needs:

#1 changing counselors--he asked why and I explained my reasons. He said he would go to whomever I wanted to go to. (After much reflection, I sense his willingness is more about making himself look good to others than about finding the right person to help us)

#2 NC letter written for my sake, not for him or for her, but to help me--I already gave her a letter...a long letter explaining how I feel. I'm not going to do it again. (Yea, like I'm suppose to feel comforted that the goodbye letter was long and all about his feelings)

I asked if in the letter he told her he loved her. He said yes. I asked if he still loved her. He said no. He said he stopped the day he came home. Sorry, I can't wrap my brain around that one. You just turn love on and off??!! He also shared that he hadn't felt that "passionate love" for me for a couple years, but that he does now. How can that be? I feel it; I don't. Is this because I have been meeting his SF need well since April when this all came out, along with some other top needs. Is he going to check out on me when the "passionate love" waivers again? What about the intimate, committed, mature love???

#3 Commit to telling me immediately if contact is attempted--I really don't know how I will handle it if she calls. It depends on why she calls, what she says, and my (meaning me, the BS) state of mind. If she calls to tell me her dad died, yea, I want to know that. I just don't know how I will handle it. I could tell you I would hang up and call you, but I'm trying to be honest with you. I really don't know what I would do. (His response to this alarms me more than the NC letter. I guess because he has already told her he doesn't want any further contact and is 4 weeks into NC (I hope), I can put that aside at the moment. But refusing to commit to including me in on any contact shows me he doesn't comprehend the importance of openness and honesty and that he is still only going to let me know what he thinks I need to know--or what he wants me to know.)

#4 Read SAA with me (he has read through about half of it on his own)--If you really want me to, I guess that's fine. But I'll be honest, I'm not impressed with a lot of what he (Dr. H) says. (I asked for explanation) I don't like the way he uses the kids as pawns (referring to plan B), not even talking about your own kids. Come on, aren't we all grown ups. (I can somewhat see his point about this, as I struggled with this as well. But I think this was more of him grasping at something in the book so that he could dismiss the whole thing.)



The letter I gave him to read to open up our discussion listed these needs and why each was important to me. Needless to say, after this conversation, I truly began to question his commitment to recovery. It is apparent that he is not willing to do simple things to demonstrate his desire to begin recovery. He is still only willing to do whatever he wants.

It took me several days to process this discussion, as I still wanted to stay in my denial, hoping that we were at the beginning of recovery.

Question for you all...what is reasonable to expect from a WS right now? If he is truly NC, then I should expect a great deal of fogginess and withdrawal right now? Correct? (As a long-term recovering addict, I think he finds Dr. H's withdrawal comparison offensive)

So, should I expect much from him right now or should I just consider this all part of his withdrawal?

We did see the new C right before we left for vacation. I could sense my H's discomfort with him. But I feel hopeful that he can help us if my H is willing. About half way into the session, the C looked at H and said , "tell me about the A." H tried to be his usual self...very vague and gloss over it all. He said, someone from my past came in to work, we went to lunch, we started meeting and we had an affair." C asked, how did A develop? How often did you meet, where, etc. H became squirmy and we were running out of time. I think C was feeling him out to see where he's at. C closed with stating that we will find that his approach focuses a great deal on openness and honesty being key to our process of recovery.

Vacation was pretty good. We didn't talk about R at all. I could see H come and go between WS and the man I married. So refreshing when H was "my man". So heartbreaking when WS took over. I can't help but wonder if I can truly have back the man I married. I have been contemplating what God expects from me if the man I married never returns...just my own reflections, not really looking for an answer on that one...it would have to be between God and me.

I feel my H has come home because the small dose of reality hit him and it didn't feel good. I have 2nd guessed as to whether I made the right choice in allowing him to return home (I was the one who requested it, took him about a week to decide). Honestly, I wonder at times, if I really want to be married to him. Other times, I ache for a fulfilling marriage with him. I find myself, for the first time, considering the idea that someday someone else might adore me, love me, desire me. I just feel like he settled for me because I'm the one he has kids with, but that he still longs for her. This is a very painful place to be. Yet, I finally feel like the utter shock and disbelief is passing as I settle into the reality of my marriage...what it has been, what is may never be.

I find myself lately thinking about this: "If he came home for the kids, is this enough? Will I stay in a marriage for the kids?" My parents did and I thank them today for it. And I know they love each other. I saw my children's devastation, I saw their security ripped from under them, I was faced with their agony. He really didn't see it. If he did, it was just a small glimpse. All he saw was his own pain from being gone. And I am considering the idea that his return was soley based on his own pain and had nothing to do with anyone else.

Right now, I think he still feels entitled to having had the affair...I wasn't this or that, or didn't do this or that, so he had a right...blah, blah, blah. He feels sorry that he hurt me, but he has yet to be sorry for having sex with another woman, for breaking the vow he made to me for life. He told me he was crying out to God one day about the burden of breaking two women's hearts. Sorry, but I take great offense to OWs heartbreak being lumped in with mine. Hers doesn't come close. It can't. I have been this man's wife for 19 years. We have 24 years of history and 5 children together. He sat in the whirlpool and rubbed me while we gave birth to 3 of those 5. We have laughed and cried together, mourned the death of our miscarried baby, and so much more. How dare he lump this in with her losing him. AND when he left her, she got a long goodbye letter. I got..I haven't loved you for 13 years, I love her, I was just biding my time til the kids were grown BS. My heart has been ripped to shreds by the one and only man I have ever loved. She has been married twice and has had AT LEAST one affair. TOTALLY different women here and TOTALLY different depths of pain!

Where am I now? Most days, I still feel a deep love for him and a hopefulness. But I am looking at this realistically, knowing that he may not ever be "in it".

Do I just hang on and ride this wave for a while, waiting for this fogginess and withdrawal to clear? I think this C will, if nothing else, address our situation in a way that will help me determine my H's motives and intentions. I don't think he will be able to be wishy washy, vague, manipulative, secretive, etc. I spent some time talking with the person who referred this C, and she shared what the C required. I think it will be apparent in time whether my H will get serious about the M or not.

Obviously, his responses to NC letter and contacting me if contact is attempted are not at all encouraging. To me, this are simple things that don't take much effort, just willingness and commitment.

Ace,

While I was posting this long post above, I see you were checking on me again.

How sweet? I feel loved.

This is just my 2 cents...and I will admit to NOT having read your entire post because there were a few things that stopped me cold...

his FAILURE to commit to NC. He doesn't KNOW how he will handle her calling??? HUGE red flag.

his use of the word LOVE in a letter to her. That is NOT a NC letter. I am also exceptionally concerned over his lassion/love statements concerning you. Frankly, I think your WH is full of chit.

My question to use is...WHY do YOU keep lowering the price of admission to your life???

IMHO, this man should be plan B'd until each and every one of your conditions are met. This is NOT a negotiation...it is a surrender... an unconditional surrender...

SMB, your H is still very fogged out. That may be a result of withdrawal, but this will not work unless he agrees to do certain things, such as end contact for life and commit to spend 15 hours a week with you learning to meet each others needs.


SMB,this will not suffice. Any allowable contact is opening the door to the affair. He has to agree to end ALL contact. Your marriage does not stand a chance unless contact ends. RECOVERY=IMPOSSIBLE. This is not good enough, SMB. This in NO WAY provides you the protection you must have. Contact is a GRIEVOUS ASSAULT, as traumatic as a RAPE to you, and he cannot be so cavalier about the possibility of FUTURE RAPE. Sit him down and ask him to watch this 30 min video of Dr. Harley: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...e=0#Post3261867


This is because your H does not AT ALL understand the TRAUMA his affair has caused to you, his wife. The reason Dr. Harley developed Plan B is because he had clients who had NERVOUS BREAKDOWNS and suffered YEARS OF POST TRAUMATIC STRESS DISORDER trying to deal with an affair. It is not good for children to have one parent who is lost in waywardness and the other having a NERVOUS BREAKDOWN. Many experts now counsel that there be NO CONTACT during divorce for this very reason. Dr. Harley is not the only one who knows the value of this.

Secondly, Dr. Harley has a GREAT MARRIAGE without infidelity. He has helped untold thousands of others recover bad marriages. Your H only knows how to screw one up. So it would behoove him to listen to someone who KNOWS how to save marriages, rather than take his own advice.

SMB, the core issue here, IMO, is that your H does not understand what he has done. He has minimized the impact of his affair. So tell him this, affairs are as traumatic as the DEATH OF A CHILD or a RAPE. It is the WORST thing that can happen to a person. So, for your husband to tell you that he may or may not resume contact with his mistress is the equivalent of telling you he may or may not be inclined to RAPE you again and destroy your life. No rational person could be expected to live under such a cruel mandate. In order for you to recover, he needs to TAKE STEPS to PROTECT YOU, not assure you that he may or may not destroy you again.

Instead of playing roulette with another counselor, SMB, why not try out Steve Harley? He understands infidelity and does a good job of coaching waywards. He will not waste a minute of your time and is worth every penny.

In the meantime, show your husband this link: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...e=0#Post3261867

Print up this article and hand to him: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5042_qa.html

this is what it will take to recover your marriage: http://www.marriagebuilders.com/graphic/mbi5065_qa.html

Sexymamabear,

I do care. But I'm selfish, too. I bump and then pray that veterans like MEDC and MEL and others will teach you and me together.

PLEASE heed their advice. I've had false recoveries. Each one saps you more and more. We now have a tougher MC than Dr. Harley. If you want, please glean what he shares with us on my Trials & Smiles recovery thread.

Mel and MEDC thwacked me good when I started posting. Granted, my sitch was different than yours and I never stopped posting (except for the 2 weeks that I ended up calling Dr. Harley in person at Mrs. Harley's emailed insistence)....but I listened to all .... and now we are well on our way to recovery.

My H even reads over my shoulder on MB and offers suggestions without feeling the twangs of guilt that MB used to represent for him....maybe he'll even post one day.

Thanks for posting, Sexymamabear. Do NOT give up. You can do this......you are way ahead of many on this rollercoaster of 'seeking' recovery. Soon, if you follow through, you'll be on the rollercoaster...but not until he agrees to NC for life and writes a sincere letter to OW because he recognizes the pain he has caused you.

No matter what....please keep posting. We all care.

Ace

Just remembered,

My H and I emailed an NC letter (pre-MB) but OW thought I had written and sent it. Then, after D-Day #4, (H lied about being online seeing if "she was there and he could resisit writing to her), H offered to handwrite another NC letter after we had read SAA, and we sent it with a copy of HNHN to OW via certified mail.

The 2nd NC letter was his idea. He was committed to recovery. (The book was my idea.)

Ace

SMB,
I definitely agree with the others. Your H stating that he may or may not tell you if the OW contacts him is a sign that he may not be totally committed to saving your M. He is still speaking fogtalk. It means that he is still willing to keep secrets from you concerning OW. Secrets he & OW have between them, with you on the outside. He is still willing to be dishonest & betray your trust....bad sign.

Also, his so-called NC letter was definitely not a NC letter. It sounds as if it was more a "I love you and want to share my life with you, but can't hurt my kids like that" letter, which will most likely not convince OW that your H thinks he made a mistake and doesn't want to see her anymore. It sounds like "this is only temporary letter".

Be careful! Keep snooping!!

You are all saying exactly what I expected you to say. I think that is why I wasn't in too big a hurry to post. I knew what was coming, was already saying it to myself, but couldn't muster up the energy to come and post it all here. Sometimes when I post, it's like reliving it all. Sorry to have kept you hanging. I'll not do that again.

The way I see it, he's still in WS thinking, even if he's in NC. I am aware that I am dealing with a man who is not yet fully committed to our marriage and recovery.

However, I am not willing to Plan B right now. My kids went through he)) when he left, and I will not ask him to leave unless I am convinced that this marriage is over. I realize many of you may disagree with that, but I'm the one that looks in my babies' faces and has to explain to them what is happening. (2X4 me if you want). (My tone here isn't grumpy... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

From talking with my friend who referred us to our new MC (she & her H went through this about 3-4 years ago), it sounds like the new MC implements much of what is recommended in MB, although I don't know that he actually uses the materials. She told me he required daily calendars, multiple check in calls throughout the day, contact numbers of anyone he was with during the day so she could verify, cell phone records, openness and honesty about the A, and transparency.

I feel like I am at a place where I need to "wait and see". See if H is willing to be open & honest when MC asks the questions that he will, see if H is willing to DO what MC requires to be transparent. Time will tell. I don't have blinders anymore.

Yes, I continue to snoop and to be skeptical. For me, the cards aren't on the table yet, so I don't know if he's bluffing. But eventually, I will know.

Hope that makes sense.

Hi SMB,

Thank you for mustering the courage to post. We are here to help you. So sorry you seem to be intimidated.....please don't be.

I know that's easy for me to say. I have only been on MB for 7 months, 3 months longer than you....I remember the fear of being 'bashed' too well. But I have a different perspective on 2x4s.



Let's see if we can change perspective, SMB. Please do not take this as condescending, but let's use homeschooling your children as an example. (Not sure if you homeschool or not, but just pretend for now.)

If your child did not want to turn in an assignment because he/she was afraid it was not what you would expect from him/her, would that be good or bad? How could that child learn properly if the teacher could not ascertain what needed to be taught?

Your continuous posting will help us help you.....and you will be able to choose which path you undertake.

I look at 2x4s as badges of honor; someone cares enough about me to show me how close I am to the cliff's edge. They will not wait for me to plunge off and then say...oops, maybe I should have told her how close she was to the edge.

SMB, I am no expert, but I know your best bet would be to keep posting...like you said you would. But have the perspective that it's because you want to learn, not because you're apprehensive of being reprimanded.

Ultimately, the choice is yours, though. WE will always care, regardless what you choose. But we will tell you what the most successfull clinical psychologist who has saved thousands of marriages has discovered.....because our recovering marriages are proof that his principles work. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Are we perfect? No. Did we all make the proper choices every time? No. Will we all make the correct choices in the future? Possibly not. But we are all working together to help each other.

Even if you chose something different from what others might have chosen, please do not think that we will think less of you. So keep posting.....many of us have changed our perspective in mid stream and things have come around quickly. You've experienced some of that already. Let's hope it continues.

Ace

My problem with waiting and watching a foggy WS is that you may start to resent him. Lose love for him as you watch him behave poorly.

There's no question...he doesn't get it.

He is not protecting you or your M at all. And he doesn't have an inclin(sp?) of the pain that you are going through with his questionable NC.

HE HAS TO BE TRANSPARENT!!!AND THERE CAN BE NO CONTACT FOR LIFE!

You should not accept less. I know you know that.

He's trying to negotiate to have things HIS way. He may or may not tell you, and he may or may not talk to her, blah, blah, blah. And the NC letter was no NC letter. ILYs are not part of a NC letter!

SMB, it does need to be an unconditional surrender.

I just see continual suffering for you in this "recovery".

Don't wait too long in this "wait and see" period. You deserve much more.


Keep posting. You're not alone. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

SMB,

I agree with Michele....she brought up a good point about your losing love for your WH and slipping back into having to gag on your words again.

Plan B may not be fun now so that's why WH would balk. But for the big picture future, Plan B may be what you need to salvage those sweet little faces as they grow.

If you lose your Love Bank balance, how will those sweet little faces handle the fallout?

Please consider giving WH an ultimatum soon. You really cannot afford to wait much longer.

We'll all be here for you. Make time to get your ducks in a row and if it's not needed because he de-fogs on his own, all the better. But if not, you'll be ready.

Keep posting SMB......we can all help you....as long as Michele and I don't have to keep doin' da sexymamabear bump for long. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/blush.gif" alt="" />

Ace

sexymamabear,

I don't know if I've ever posted to you.

I agree with unconditional surrender on points to begin recovery; the NC letter, transparency, and willingness to begin meeting EACH OTHERs EN.

The first false recovery that I had, I did not have MB, and we floundered during that 10 months and WH started an EA. After Plan B, another false recovery (1 month) mostly because he would not stop seeing OW, meeting her for lunch to hear her out, watch her cry about missing him, and so on and so forth. I told him to leave, and back to dark Plan B. When HE made changes, without my asking, begging, pleading or being angry, and came to me asking for his M and family back THAT was the right time.

If I had just followed MB to a tee, I could have avoided that second false recovery. With you, you never did Plan B, so i can't advise on what to do NOW. I can only say that acceptance of anything less that FULL participation in recovery, and a willingness to begin to understand and repair the damage will get you nowhere.

I, personally, drew up my boudaries and enforced them during my last false recovery, and it saved ME much pain and kept the LB from going into the red. I advise you examine what your boundaries are, and YOUR willingness to enforce them. Your boundaries are about your acceptance, not about making your WH conform.

I sincerely hope that you will mull this over, and I wish you strength in the coming days. Im sorry you have to deal with this, but you must.

Did ya have a good weekend, SMB? Just checkin' in with ya.

Ace

Ace,

Thank you for your perspective on 2X4s. It does make sense. I will keep that in mind when I post.

The weekend was relatively good. Nothing to report really.

We have MC session scheduled for Wednesday night. I will probably post again after our session.

The message at church was on faith, believing all things are possible with God. He talked about when we feel hopeless. I realized I have been feeling very hopeless this past week. I don't see the remorse in my H that is necessary. He just doesn't yet grasp the destruction he his actions have caused. I went up for prayer after the message. I just asked for prayer for my marriage, husband had had A, left for a little while, is now home, but not fully home emotionally. That was all I said. So when we started praying, he prays that my H will begin to comprehend the damage that has taken place, even that his heart will be broken over it. That he will see the destruction and truly feel remorse. He really hammered the need for remorse, even though I hadn't really gone into that. He prayed for discernment for me, and he prayed our M would be beauty from ashes. It was an overwhelming time of prayer.

Thanks for checking on me.

I understand exactly what you are saying, as I have even begun to feel it at times. I look at him sometimes and just don't want to spend the rest of my life with him.

I think that is because I still see the wayward in him and all the changes that he underwent when he became wayward. If I can have my H back, I know I want to spend my life with him. But the wayward personality he has taken on is so different from the man I have known for 20 years.

I contrast just last summer's vacation with the one we just returned from. Last summer my Hs cousin's son and his friend were talking about how important it is for Christian's to listen to secular music so that they can use it as an "in" to conversations with nonbelievers. My H spent over an hour in a very convincing debate about that not being true and how with all the choices of Christian music styles today, we have a better footing by introducing our nonbelieving friends to the Christian music in the style that they like. Anyway, he is very convincing whenever he debates, doesn't matter what the topic is.

So switch to this year. He is engulfed in secular music. We had to listen to it all the way down and back. And while we were there, he kept putting his CDs in even when others were listening to something different (We were with another Christian family). Many of the songs he nows loves sing about things that go against his personal convictions just a year ago. I am not bashing secular music, I enjoy much of it as well. It is the CHANGE in his personality that I notice. There is a contempt about him, or a rebellious attitude when it comes to music. It's like he wants to shove it in everyone's faces and challenge us on it.

Another change is that he swears in front of and AT my children. For 17 years we have removed swearing from our home, and this year, he is swearing all the time...using all kinds of words. In some families, this might not be a big deal. But since this has never been a part of my kids' lives, it is a big deal for them. Two of my younger kids have even said something to me about "those words" daddy uses. It is apparent they feel hurt by him when he uses them. This is an issue that I will confront very soon. I had hoped that as the fog lifted, this would wane. But since it has not, I will deal with it head on the next time it rears its head.

He now has all kinds of excuses for skipping out on church with us, too. Yesterday, when he announced that he was going to stay home to start his remodeling project (which I really want him to finish), I told him I remember a time when he commented on fathers who don't go to church and the impact it has on their children. He said yes, I'm sure it does impact them. This is just another example of his values taking a total flip flop.

Is this just typical of a WS. It seems that if they are a Christian, they would have to flip flop a lot to live out their hidden life. My H was a very stong leader in the church and looked up to by most as a Godly man, husband, and father. Of course, he has lost a great deal of respect and admiration from these same people.

Hello all,

I can't believe it has been over 2 weeks since I have been here.

Much has happened. Not good, of course. It seems no good will come from anything anymore.

We had an emotional MC session two weeks ago, and we didn't talk at all for a few days. I was so angry I couldn't speak. He put such a twist on our history during that session!

About 5 days after that session, he emails from work that he is going start looking for a place and would like to tell the kids himself. We email back and forth a few times and I call him. He says he should never have come home in the first place, he came home for the kids, no matter what he says or does his heart is not in this marriage. He says he is exhausted (don't know what from--he hasn't done any work on this marriage) and done.

He said he wanted to take that week's counseling session for himself or I could use it alone. I told him to take it. He said I felt counseling would help us work out some communication in our parenting (we always did great at that before!!!) he consider going with me to help with that.

So his counseling was over at 8 p.m. He got home at midnight. He didn't talk to me at all. So on Sun. I ask if he is planning to go to counseling again on his own. He says no, he will be finding someone closer to go to on his own. He then says he put a deposit on a condo and will be moving this weekend (that's tomorrow). He said he hopes my anger doesn't affect the kids like it did last time (I don't think it was my anger that affected him--IT WAS HIS LEAVING!!!!!''DUH!!!) He didn't like being excluded from their lives so much. Well, too bad!! He has contacted his lawyer again and is proceeding with sending financial papers to my lawyer.

He said, he just doesn't love me anymore and is done.

I asked if he was seeing OW. He said no. I asked if he planned to pursue that in the future. He said, "I don't know what the future will hold. Right now that relationship is so broken too."

Well, no kidding! Affairs START OUT broken and don't get fixed.

I am back at shock and grief. I have cried for days, and it just doesn't stop. I should have never let him come home. He was just beginning to hurt, and I let him back.

I still want my marriage and am praying that while he is gone, God will bring him to his knees. But I am not holding my breath. I now see how broken this man is. The more I watch, the more I see that it is him...not me, not our marriage...him. He is going to have to work on a lot of his own issues. I don't know if he will ever get past his mess. And now there is going to be an even bigger mess--a divorce.

I am preparing myself emotionally, financially, and legally for this divorce.

He said he found a place close to us so that he can be involved with the kids and hopes what happened last time won't happen again (me not wanting him around except for his picking them up on his weekend).

He said he plans to finish all the work on our house in a timely manner (kitchen and bath renovation), so that means he will be around on weekends working.

What now??? Plan A, B, or just let Plan D happen? How do you Plan B when he's here working. I thought we might just not be here when he is working. That would be good for me.

I honestly believe he never really came home with any intention of staying. I think my attitude when he left freaked him out. He got scared and it hurt to be away from the kids. I think he talked with his lawyer and reconsidered the money and leaving with a house undone and how that looks to everyone. And I think he came home to make himself feel better and look better. He can say he tried. He had time to smooth the kids over. And he thinks he had time to smooth me over.

I am so full of grief again. The anger is gone. I feel like the affair doesn't even matter anymore...but his leaving forever is killing me.

I will see the MC alone this evening and will continue to work with him.

I want my marriage, but not to this man. I want my husband, and I think he is too far gone to find.

My mom told me today, God will reward me one day for my faithfulness and for my trust in Him. A cousin told me to stop looking at what I should've done, and think of Job. He asked me, "What did Job do wrong?" I said, nothing. And he said, neither have you. This is actually my H's cousin. They have been like brothers over the years, but this has taken a toll on their relationship. He and his wife and family have been my greatest support and encouragement. They are family to me.

I am rambling so. I can't even remember what I have written.

Oh yeah, and I'm sick with a terrible respiratory virus. And am back on the infidelity diet (I was already down to size O). I know I need to get a grip. I will discuss this with C tonight.

ok, SMB, I do not want you to give up hope. We have seen far worse than this come back from the dead. It is usually not this easy, so this recent development is not surprising. He sort of tipped his hand earlier when he wouldn't assure you that contact had ended. That is usually a bad sign.

Can you afford to counsel with Steve Harley? Steve might be able to get through to him, but he would want to counsel with you alone and then your H alone. Sometimes he can get through to a WS. I think that you are ripe for Plan B, and Steve could help you do that.

I am very sorry this is happening, but please don't give up hope. This is FAR from the end!

Mel,

I do feel so hopeless. I just can't see him coming back, but I just can't believe he is really leaving me. The one thing in this life I have always been sure of was his love. And now, I just feel like my whole life is...I don't even have a word to express it.

I don't know about affording Steve Harley for myself. What I do know is that H won't consider it for him. #1 He "was not impressed with SAA" especially with Plan B stuff dealing with kids, and #2 He doesn't want to go to MC at all with me anymore--because he's "done".

I just feel so lost right now and so hopeless. I can't imagine there ever being a brighter day....ever.

SMB, a wayward who is not intent on recovery will HATE Surviving an Affair. Steve is very clever about getting a WS on the phone with invitations like: "tell him I need to talk to him to help you deal with all this."

Steve will assess your situation and GIVE YOU A PLAN. It is not marriage counseling, SMB. That is not what you need right now. You need help killing his affair and protecting yourself.

Please listen to me, there will be a brighter day AND THIS IS NOT HOPELESS. The devil wants you to lie down so the OW WINS, but you cannot do that. You have to STAND UP NOW for your kids. You CAN STAND UP. STAND UP. Remember, you have God on your side, your H and the OW DO NOT. They have already lost.

I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me. Philippians 4:13