We were simul-posting. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

Glad your thoughts are organized. You can do this, great job so far!

Ace

SMB,
Remember just a little while ago...feelings DO change. Even the title of your thread says it. You are wanting to run, ease the pain, get it over with. It is totally understandable, totally. But feelings CAN change. WE all know that. What if in Plan B, he finds his way? And it's real. What is the last thing he will think of you? Will he say "gosh, she hates me, I can't go back to that"? Or will he think there might be hope left because he saw a glimmer of it before you went dark?

I know you say you don't want the M anymore, but feelings change. BSs struggle with it all the time. I could never have imagined staying with my H, ever. I remember the posters here talking to me about forgiveness and about recovery and I thought to myself...HOW CAN I RECOVER FROM THIS? I think I yelled it aloud.

Try to give your WH something to remember, something good...then go to plan B. In the end YOU WILL KNOW that you did everything that you could for your M and your family. And that will stay with you the rest of your life. You didn't quit, you gave it your all... 2 more weeks.

You can do it.

Hi SMB:

I've posted to you a few times and have followed your story since you joined MB. I think about you a lot.

Anyway, I'm jumping in now to suggest listening to Dr. Harley's radio program if you have time. He does such a good job of explaining this (Mel is telling you the same thing Dr. Harley proposes).

The first thing Dr. Harley asks is: do you want to save your marriage? If the answer is "yes" or "I think so" or even "I'm not sure yet", then Dr. Harley strongly encourages the betrayed spouse to be nothing but the ideal partner around their cheating husband/wife. This is because affairs almost always end, and the spouse will want to return to their family.

That's why Plan A is supposed to be short, and usually must be followed by Plan B. It is to preserve the remaining good will of the betrayed spouse, and to remove the wayward spouse from any venomous anger the betrayed spouse probably feels. This is important if there is any hope for reconciliation.

Stay strong, I'm thinking of you-
~Saturn

I think you are getting excellent advice from ML and others...
I am more concerned with you as a person that I am with your marriage to a VERY flawed "man." If you were saying you definitely want the M to work out and looking for ways to reach that end, I would join the choir...but that is NOT what I am hearing from you.

When I hear you say the following...

"I don't want the pieces back together. I think we will be better without him."

I will go by that until you say otherwise and my response is one that Dr. Harley himself has stated very clearly... I am right there with you. Only IF you want a marriage to recover will the implementation of Plans A & B result in a positive outcome. There is NO reason to continue with a Plan A that you have clearly stated is not possible UNLESS you know you want to save the M. Plan B has it uses right now as it protects you from his continued insanity.

If your view changes and you decide that you want this M to work out... that you know this man is worth the fight... I would say follow ML advice. If you believe that you will be better off putting this all behind you and beginning anew, go immediately dark and let your lawyer have at him...."let loose the dogs of war!"

Truth???

I DON'T BELIEVE ANYMORE!!!!

I knew all along that I could forgive and love this man and get past any affair. I don't believe I can any longer. He has hurt me so badly at this point.

And, I don't believe my husband is going to want to come home to me NO MATTER WHAT I DO.

IF I could have the man back that he has been up until this year, I want that back. But then again, from what he has told me...all the while I thought he was a wonderful husband he has been checking into separating (2-3 years ago), been having an emotional affair off and on with OW (at least 5-6 years ago), and I believe spending the last few years planning and preparing HOW to leave. Moved us out of a $300,000 home last summer into a $180,000. I thought we were working together to be debt free...now, I just think he was manipulating so that he could AFFORD to leave when he was ready to. A few years back (I think 5 years ago) he changed his business to an LLC. Told me it was to protect his interests because his father had remarried some years before. (He and his dad both own part of the business). Do I believe that now?? No, I think it was one of the first steps he took to pave the way to leave when he decided he wanted to.

So, I ask myself, did the man I love and want back ever really exist. Everyone who knows us says, it was real, his love was real, it was obvious. But as I put together these pieces that COULD have an honest pure motive...well, the puzzle picture starts to look very different.

IF he was deceiving me all along, I don't want him back. If what I had for 18 years was what it FELT like, then he is worth fighting tooth and nail for.

So I am either faced with a H that has been lying, manipulating, plotting, and deceiving for a very long time...or a wonderful, encouraging, loving, husband. These are two very extremes, and one frightens me. It scares me to put myself out there to someone who is such a good con.

I am exhausted. I have lost all hope. I can't imagine ever really knowing who he was and is.

MEDC, she is now on D-Day #3 and on every D-Day - when she is hysterical with grief - she wants to kick the "bum" to the curb and then changes her mind. She is hysterical with grief right now and shouldn't make any life changing decisions in that state of mind.

If she does make a calm and rational decision when in SOUND MIND after she goes into Plan B to divorce him, I will be right there with her. But until that happens, I am helping her save her marriage and discouraging her from making ANY decisions right now. Her H is not any more "flawed" than any other wayward on this forum, IMO.

She loses nothing by playing this as if she wants to save her marriage, but she does lose if she burns that bridge becuase there will be no coming back. That is a he11 of a life changing decision to be making while you under the worst emotional trauma of your life.

If she is going to dump this guy, she needs to do it with a SOUND MIND and a CALM HEART, something she does not have TODAY.


I think she needs to do this REGARDLESS of her decision. Her attorney needs to tear him up badly so he knows the price will be very high for his affair.

IMHO...d-day #3 says it all. I personally wouldn't hang around for a forth!

Well, I wouldn't hang around for a 2nd, but that is me. We do have some great marriages around here that DID survive multiple D-Days.

true....it is just my opinion... but 4...yuck.

I am confused. What EXACTLY do you mean by D-days. I thought it meant that you discovered the affair.

What are my d-days? I thought #1 was when he confessed the he had HAD an affair(s); and #2 was when he confessed (got caught) that he was still in an affair.

ddays would also include finding out he is still in contact...

discovery days

D-day means discovery day. She discovered the affair initially, and then discovered 2 resumptions.

I guess I hadn't considered him leaving this time as a d-day. He says he is not involved with OW--OF COURSE I don't believe him. But since I hadn't actually DISCOVERED anything, I didn't consider it d-day.

Mel,

I really don't feel hysterical with grief. I actually feel like for the first time since April, I have a clear, calm mind. But perhaps it is a fog of my own.

However, I have considered what you said. I will do Plan A for the next two weeks for two reasons:

#1 This will get my kitchen/bath done quicker.
#2 I can say I did all that I could.

Then, HELLO PLAN B. Darkness is calling me.

I know Plan B will infuriate him, especially since he read about it in SAA and commented that it was sheer manipulation and using the children. He couldn't grasp the true purpose---OF COURSE.

But that's OK. I will Plan B for me, not for my marriage or for him, just for my protection. I expect it to lead to Plan D. If God intervenes (and I expect a flashing, neon sign from Him this time), then it will be a surprise and an obvious miracle.

SMB, NOT going into Plan B is more likely to lead to a D. And let me tell you why. If you are continually exposed to his affair, you will be a BASKET CASE. So when his affair does die, he won't want to come home to a basket case.

And yes, he will be furious when you go into Plan B because he will LOSE control over you. And although he might not be able to voice this fear, your Plan B threatens his affair.

Do you know why?

No, I don't know why. Please tell me.

As far as control over me. I believe that is exactly WHY he came home in the first place.

He had control up until the point that I intercepted OW's text message. Then I took control (although I felt like I was out of control). I told him to leave and after a week of falling apart, I basically unintentionally Plan B'd him. I believe he couldn't handle that. He came home to resume control so that he could leave on his terms when he felt ready.

But his wake up call is about to ring. And this time, there won't be a homecoming without my conditions being fully met.

You were right when you said his refusal to send NC letter was not good, and his refusal to commit to calling me if any contact was made. The problem was, I had already let him back home. So, I see now that I lost any power I had the moment I allowed him to come home without meeting any conditions.


I have received 2 phone calls today from HIS extended family telling me that they fully support me and know that I am the moral compass of this family. They confirm for me that he is still very heavy in denial, self-entitlement, and major WS thinking.

It is so good to have some support. His family has been my family. I am close with my parents, but have no contact with any other members of my family. He has a big extended family that stays in contact. They have loved and accepted me all these 24 years.

ok, here is why. The OW probably meets 1-2 top needs of his. You meet 3-4. With you out of the picture, he will come to the shocking realization that OW can't meet his needs and will miss what he gets from you. He will at first FIGHT THE HE11 out of Plan B to try and get you back on the plantation becuase he is used to having TWO women meet his needs.

But when he can't get you back, he will have to realize that the OW can't possibly meet his needs so he will begin to look to her to meet all of them. He will raise his expectations of her which will cause huge conflict in the marriage. Since she is just along for a free ride, she will RESENT his increased expectations.

Also, with you out of the picture, he will no longer have you around to demonize. The entire focus will now be on her and his affair, which will further its demise. Reality will seep in and he will have to face the loss of his children and his family. He can never bring his children around her becuase they will hate her for what she did to their family.

This is how Plan B hastens the death of the affair.

OK, I think I get it.

But what if he really isn't involved with OW right now?

Oh, sexymamabear, ((((big hugs)))) and <<<<prayers>>>>

I know you don't want to do plan A, but I think you should to make him believe he's got the upper-hand. I really feel in my heart that WS used a false R to jump start his divorce plan and put himself in a better position. From reading your posts, I think he believed he had more time to get his ducks in a row. I think plan A would give you time to learn more about protecting yourself/family in case you don't R.

Take the next week to learn everything you can about divorce with the best out come for you. (Even if you do R down the road, the knowledge will be invaluable) I recommend doing google searches on "divorce women", "divorce assets", "divorce hidden assets" and "divorce assets older women" (not saying your "older" but being a sahm for many years puts you into a demographic similar to mature women. Also, please check out this link http://www.fpanet.org/member/press/releases/061206_journal.cfm since it gives info on how dividing assets 50/50 harms women. It tells about a more equitable division of assets since the hubby is usually established in his career while mom had been home with the kids. Hubby's income earning potential increases while the wife has to start all over. A woman's net worth decreases, while her ex's assets/income increase, often at an exponential rate! So, looking toward the future, you're going to want your atty to fight for 1/2 of future income from earned income, business income (hubby's portion of the business), assets/dividend, retirement, etc. That way, you have income coming in, instead of coming out of your assets following the break-up. Also, don't forget your health and life insurance coverages. if your covered via hubby, you'll want to continue to be.

As far as the kiddos are concerned, most judges will agree to a "no paramours" clause in the visitation agreement. It is in the kids best interests. Remember that most states have an age (usually 14) where the child can decide which parent to live with or visit. Your atty will have more info on that.

The only other thing I can offer is to make sure the kiddos stay on top of their school work and have their portfolios ready and accessible as per your state's laws.

On the spiritual front, you'll have to let the children know that God loves them and wants every husband and wife to be together. But he also give us free-will and that means we can chose to sin, do wrong, etc(which ever terms you feel comfortable with). Let those little ones know that God hears their prayers for mom and dad to be together, but if it doesn't happen it's because sin was chosen over God. God hasn't abandoned them or didn't hear their prayers. With the older children, they'll question their faith and values (as most teens do) but it can be more intense. Watch out for their anger toward God and possible development of indifference.

Please keep the Faith and pray, pray, pray for your husband. I read in an earlier post that he is in a spiritual battle. Actually, I think he's made his decision. The evil one is now battling against you and your little ones. Courage, mamabear! Christ does not forsake us nor abandon us! He says, "My peace I give to you." I'm hoping the calm you're experiencing is from all the prayers being offered up on you and your dear family's behalf. May the Holy Spirit fill you and protect you and yours.

God Bless,

Jewel

ps sorry this is so long! I would've responded over several posts in the past few days, but had to figure out how to register <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

I know that a lot has changed from your first posts, but isn't it true that he has had 3 other A's with this woman? In reality - this was an on going A that has never ended. There may be times in between where they do not speak to each other, but never did they reach a point of truly saying "that is it - no more - this is WRONG and it needs to STOP"
that is what you are looking for.