What I don't want:

regrets (but think they'll be there no matter what)

false recovery

more D-days

lies



That's a start.

For me, this aspect (and the kids) would be the only initial reason(s) to consider recovery.

If he sincerely says he 'will do anything to make amends and provide just compensation', your regrets would be much greater if you did not give him ....say....'one session with a very tough MC' to evaluate your options.

Then it could be done.......or not. (Your 5 kids adjusting to a potential new "dad" might be more challenging .....that's a sobering thought, SMB, and one that did not affect me at all in my decision to give my WH strike 5.)

Ace

PS I'll be praying for you SMB, but I must go to work now. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />

For me, the only regret I have is not walking away sooner. I wasted years dealing with a lying cheating woman. IMHO, no one will ever be worth sacrificing years of my life for. That does not mean that I would bail out if a mistake is made...it just means that I will not sit back and be abused over and over again by anyone. SMB..your H has had a lifetime of chances...and he has blown every single one of them.
He plays games...if you get too far away and out of his control, he will reel you back in with empty promises...
Yes, adjusting to a new life would be a challenge for your kids...but it is one that can result in great changes. There are a lot of good men out there that would welcome your kids into their lives. I will tell you that I would never shy away from any woman because she has 5 kids. It certainly would make for great holidays and front yard football games!

One last comment:

MEDC, I appreciate your perspective:


In my case, I felt I was trapped (my perspective) in a loveless marriage for 32 years. When WH's affair gave me reason to get out, I was given the option to re-evaluate.

Things changed and I do not regret giving him another chance even after 3 false recoveries over 6 months.

It's different for all of us. I now am beginning to have the marriage I always dreamed about. For me, it was worth the sacrifice, even if it was inadvertant all those years.

Ace

P.S. Glad you're open to a new relationship MEDC, and that multiple kids would NOT be a deterrent for you. That type of openness is rare. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

Well, WS emailed me about some karate stuff today--twice. But he never responded to my email that asked if the affair was over, and if so, when. He also has not responded to the email I sent yesterday that was a direct response to his "remorseful" email.

You know, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to answer these two simple questions: Is it over? and When did it end?

He dealt with karate issues, but put this issue off. Doesn't look to eager to do whatever it takes, does he?

no he doesn't

Nope.

The wind's not changing in these sails. I have not changed course.

I love your perspective here, MEDC. You continue to be a huge encourager for me. Thank you.

I finally got a response back today. It's a bunch of words but doesn't really say anything. He didn't answer a single question, not even the simple: Is your A over, if so, when did it end?

Here's what it said:

BS,

The intention of my email was to express to you the sincerest apology possible. I felt that you deserved this at the very least. My hopes were also to offer some type of a safe dialog. Your reply and your questions did surprise me a bit, but not in a bad way. I will put a lot of thought into my reply.



After reading this, I felt I knew nothing more. It doesn't take a lot of thought to answer: Is A over? When?

Granted it might take some thought to answer my other question: What are you willing to do?

I see his response today as a step backward, and therefore, I do not change my plans one bit. File Dec. 1.

Just received WS's response this evening, and am not sure what to do with it. Below is the response. I could really use your thoughts about this. I am not at a place right now of wanting reconciliation.

BS,

You asked me, “What am I willing to do” regardless of the outcome. I feel there are only two possible answers to this question.

The first possible answer being that I would be willing to do things only up to a certain point and then expect you to accept that I will not go any further. This is the route I have frequently chosen in our marriage, and the results are obvious. Until recently I have not been fully aware of this. I now realize how often I rationalized my decisions and acted as if they were based on solid agreement between the two of us.

The second possible answer being that I am willing to do anything and everything necessary. An option, which of course, I have clearly not displayed a willingness to do in the past.

If you are willing to talk to your councilor and set up an appointment for both of us to outline a course of actions you feel needs to be followed, then I am willing to do anything and everything necessary to work through those actions with the goal of restoring our marriage (regardless of the outcome). If that is acceptable to you, let me know some dates and times that we can meet. And if you feel we need to meet more than once a week in the beginning for whatever reasons, that is acceptable with me. I will have no restrictions on times or the dates you may want to schedule appointments. I will acquiesce to your schedule.

I pray that we may find each other. I have been lost for quite some time.



Now this response does not answer my other two questions: 1) is your A over? and 2) when did it end?

Here's what I am thinking of emailing back. Please tell me what you think.

WS,

Before I will consider any counseling with you, I need these two questions answered. Is A over? When did it end?(This one is important because I want to see honesty, I know it was still on last month).

I would also like to know what brought this change of heart?

After you answer these three questions, I can consider whether there is any possibility of reconciliation on my part.

Walk away...he is playing games with you.

SMB...you have invested too much energy on this man. Given a "what are you willing to do" question...that is all he came up with. Games...nothing more...keeping you on a string.

I know it hurts...but let him go....there is a better life out there...there really is.

Hi SMB!

It sounds like your WH is affraid that you're going to beat him up and he is willing to "do whatever it takes" as long as there is a MC to referee... This could be a good sign.

Only YOU can set the boundaries as to what you will or will not accept. If you need to know when the A ended, then by all means, let him know that.

I do think his two answers were informative on how he is thinking right now... one of Mrs. RIF's biggest fears when we started rebuilding was that I would forever hold her A's over her head and never forgive her...

It's important for a BS to get their questions answered and at some point in time, the BS will have to work through the answers and make a final decision to let them go and really forgive the WS... I think that for a WS, this is a very 'real' fear.

For me, it meant that I had to learn how to make a safe place for Mrs. RIF so that she would start to open up with me. Once she could trust my reactions to the answers to my questions, she opened up even more.

Stay firm with your boundaries and keep the price high...

Semper Fi,

RIF

MEDC,

This is exactly what I want to do...walk away. The only thing stopping me is trying to determine if this is a God thing. Has God reached down and grabbed his heart? These emails aren't enough for me to think so, but they are enough for me to wonder. To be honest, I am hoping it is not a God thing. I was ready to move on.

I think I am going to email three questions:
1. Is affair over
2 When did it end
3. What brought about the "change of heart"


If he appears to be honest and sincere, I will then send him my "requirements list". I'm just going to put it out there and let him know I expect nothing less than everything on that list. Then we'll see. He'll know what is required, and I'll know if he REALLY understands what "whatever it takes" means.

I am doing this because I want no regrets on my side.

I am not in love with him any longer, and I don't know if I ever can be. I understand the love bank idea, but that ain't enough anymore. There's so much damage now. How can a man leave his family for another woman??? I'll never understand that.

I just keep thinking about RLT's thread and the many others I have read that involved false recovery...often multiple false recoveries.

I wonder if I could ever get past the fear of him doing it again.

SMB,

Here is something I once read:
Aim high, Focus on Him, Pray first

I also read on another one of you posts that you were afraid that no man would want a woman that had five kids. Remember God does miracles and there just may be that man out there...no promises...but He did part the Red Sea.

We are watching

DNO,

Thank you...

SMB,



When my WH begged for another chance, my only reason for taking that 10 day vacation (and giving him another chance) was that I had already called an ailing friend near the destination and if she died before I visited her ~ because I gave up and cancelled the trip ~ I knew I would regret it for the rest of my life.

So I agreed to give WH one more chance for her, not him. And now I realize that it must have been 'a God thing'.



I was not in love with my H for 32 years, SMB...only tolerated him and used him for sex. Who'da thunk that after he had an EA that things would change for the better?

Your WH said:


I guarantee that you will have regrets if you don't give him the list and let him decide if your 'anything and everything' is what he wants. I think you should ask your 3 questions and if he answers to your satisfaction, maybe send the A and E list via email or maybe save it for that appt. with a qualified counselor ~ hopefully one who subscribes to MB concepts ~ to give WH the chance to hear professional opinions.

His 'regardless of the outcome' is an intriguing thought to ponder, too. Not sure what to make of it, tho.

At any rate, if you give him the MC session and if he then says no....you can move on with NO regrets. You did everything possible and he made the choice to end it. Not you.

From my perspective, RIF's point is also very valid.


He may not want to talk about the A unless there is a profesional available to help with the firing squad he deserves. Once you do get over the hurdle, it does get easier, like RIF says.

SMB, we are not professionals but can only share from our experiences. You have both extremes comin' atcha but God will put a peace in your heart when you know what the right decision is to make.

For me, I would give him the chance ~~~> for your 5 kids and because you don't want any regrets, what-ifs, etc.


I am grateful I called that person merely 12 hours before D-Day #4 just before our 10 day vacation. If I hadn't, we would probably be divorced by now.

Yes, I still risk false recoveries and will for the rest of our days. He could still be cheating for all I (or anyone else) knows. But I would rather put faith in God to change (or fix) things than my own doing.....and the past 11 months have been worth the effort, even if I have D-Day #5 tomorrow.

Why can I say that? Because I am more focused on my personal recovery ..... regardless what my WH, H, FWH does. He likes it and is along for the ride. That's a bonus.....but if it all went up in a puff of smoke (or an email or phone call), I would still be OK.

But that's just me. A year ago, I was thinking the same as you are thinking now. But I gave 'the God thing' a chance. He used my one phone call and fear of regret to change things.

Regardless what you choose, I'll support you like I have since I began reading your quickly deleted posts as DK something last March/April. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I'm praying for you,

Ace

SMB, I say give him a chance IF he answers your questions affirmatively and can assure you the affair is over. If not, you are wasting your time. I would then make it clear that a plan of recovery has to be agreed to before you allow him back and he has to counsel with Steve Harley. SH will be able to assess your situation and help you develop a PLAN.

Make him work for it, SMB. Talk is CHEAP, make him show you by actions what he is willing to do.

I think he is just testing the waters to see if he has a fallback position if his affair doesn't work. Take it slow and easy, SMB, and make him WORK for it.

I would not send him that requirements list, but instead tell you are considering what he is saying but you also know it is all for naught if he is still involved with his adultery partner. Ask him -----> what has transpired in your affair and what is the status today?