Hello,
I am new to the board and I posted this in another forum and was given advice to post it here for more help. To sum up my story - my husband of 7 years last year told me he wanted to separate and that nothing I said/did would change his mind. He said he needed time to figure out what he wanted. That lasted a year during which I found out he was talking to a younger girl. I filed for divorce and he twice told me he wanted to fix the marriage, then did nothing about it. The third and fourth time I told him to prove it (mainly quit talking to this young girl "friend" The day before the divorce was to be final, he called again asking for another chance. We have two young children together and I really didn't want this, so I said yes. Well, things went fine if I agreed with everything he wanted. When I got crabby, he got upset and reminded me that was why he left me in the first place. I am re-filing the divorce papers even though I really don't want this. Any advice on how to get him to communicate? Or me for that matter?

((lostsoul))

Welcome to MB. Sorry you have to be here but you are in the best place you can be right now.

I don't have advice for what you can do to get him to do anything. The only person you can control is you. And you chose to come to this site. So- I would start out by reading everything on this site-starting with Dr. Harley's Basic Concepts, Coping with infidelity and the Most Important Emotional Needs.

Your husband is "cake eating" as they say here. He wants to have you in his life to meet some of his needs, but he wants to keep his affair partner for the needs she meets. He is addicted to the feeling he has when he is with her. He also is trying to get you to allow him to continue to have both by "reminding" you of why he left you in the first place which is actually a lie. According to what he said, he needed time to figure out what he wanted when what he really wanted was to pursue a much younger girl. Then, he came back claiming to want to work on your M, but he didn't show he wanted that. But, WS (wayward spouses) lie. They lie alot. They act completely different from the people we have known them to be. They say hateful and mean things. It's all part of the justification for their A.

If you can, get a copy of Surviving An Affair by Dr. Harley.Most Christian Bookstores carry it or you can order it online. I'd get it as quickly as you can. It will explain some of the addiction stuff to you and will give you a really good idea of what Plan A and Plan B are. SAA will also help you understand the power of exposure.

You expose the A to anyone who can put pressure on the affair partners to end it. Do you know who the OW (other woman) is? Is she married? If not, can you contact her parents? What about his family? A are fantasies that can't survive the truth. Start by reading the links and get the book.

Week-ends can be slow here-but keep reading and keep posting. The veterans here really know their stuff. Take their advice to heart. It is valuable.

Hang in there-

It sounds like maybe you are both more or less on the same path but don't have a compass. My best recommendation is that you get phone counseling with Steve or Jennifer immediately. I don't think either of you want the divorce but you just don't know how to get out of this hole you're in. Click on the Counseling Center link above.

You know? I've heard of the carrot and the stick. A divorce is a pretty big stick - not to mention a very expensive one.

Thank you for your advice. It's funny - initially he did not want anyone to know that he wanted to separate and I did finally tell people. This was all a year ago and I have been living in this limbo since. The younger woman is not married and I don't know how to get in touch with her parents.
We have been to IC not MC - he has not wanted to. Initially he did, but the counselor wanted to meet with him alone first to get rid of any negative feelings he might have, since I had been seeing the counselor for a year already. Since then, he hasn't wanted to do MC.
I posted an update - it seems he is not interested in repairing the marriage.

What do you think he really wants?

Does he want divorce?
Does he want to continue a bad marriage?
Does he want to have both a wife AND a girlfriend?
Does he want to separate to keep GF but avoid D?

I'm running out of options if we are discounting gay lovers. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/confused.gif" alt="" />

Right now I really think he does want the divorce. I made it clear in the letter I wrote him that he never responded to (I talked about this in my update) that I knew I needed to change things about me and that he needed to do the same. I know he doesn't want to stay in a bad marriage , because he did leave last year.
It is possible that he wants to just stay separated in order to avoid D and keep her as well. However he is now living at his parents (before he was with a sister) and they definitely hate this younger woman. He would never be able to bring her anywhere and they would also watch his actions closely, unlike his sister. That is all my theory because he is either unwilling or unable to communicate. ???

Well just as an outside observer, it seems like you played the divorce card once before and it sort of worked. Things have not been going particularly well and you have decided to play the card again.

The problem I have with this is that if I were in your H's shoes and I already had enough of my own problems and doubts, now that my W has said she is through and wants a divorce, I would probably just give up and accept my fate.

I think you file for divorce to get his attention. I might work once or twice but it is a serious LB in my mind.

If he is heavy into the A then certainly attack the A. Expose. But I sense that maybe you are both well past that. If he is still in the A, it might just be because he doesn't have anything better to do.

Since he has never posted, all I can go by is what little you've said. I do think you should get him to agree to a phone counseling. I think it would be far less intimidating for him.

Thanks - I will keep with one thread - sorry this is my first experience with this board.
Let me give some more background on my situation. I have seen a lot of posts from you and think that you are an excellent source of information/advice. I want to clarify a few things, though. I can honestly say I don't file for divorce to get his attention. He moved out a year ago in March and I filed for divorce in August after he repeatedly refused to talk to me and said the marriage was over. Supposedly seeing it in writing made him rethink things, but after I asked him to give up the other girl and he said no, I moved forward with it. Then he did say he gave her up, and we tried to work on it, but one little disagreement and he was upset for 2 weeks about it and telling me how miserable he was with me again. He moved out and we didn't talk about things for a month. During this month I told him over and over that I would be willing to work on this, but that he had to also. And that meant not dwelling on fights for this long. I know that if I sat around and thought about him and this younger woman, I would go nuts. I try to not focus on it, because I can't change the past. After no response from him, I told him that I would have the lawyer re-file the papers again. And I guess I was hoping for him to say that he didn't want me to - but how do you continue on when someone won't even share their feelings/thoughts with you? I guess that is what I need the most advice on.

You turn around. You face your enemy in one last defiant stand. You tell yourself you won't give up without a fight. You read HNHN. You call the Harley's for individual counseling if he won't do it with you. You develop a plan. People here will help you with that plan. Then you work that plan. When you are tired and want to give up, you find a new source of strength. It isn't an easy battle but you aren't alone.

But first you have to decide whether you are strong enough or pissed off enough to run this race. Either one is equally effective.

And you certainly have to stopped sending these mixed signals - just like what I posted in the other thread.

Good advice from Piojitos. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

When the WS makes demands and it is all about him (i.e. recovery ONLY if you do what HE wants), then you know it is not real recovery. Real recovery s/b him taking most of the blame for the demise of the M and his actions showing that he is earning back your trust.

Read Love must be tough, then His Needs/Her Needs. The issue isn't communicating but rather the need to finish exposing.

Is he paying for the upkeep of your home and family finances? Don't let him skip that piece.

L.

Thanks. I guess that is what I am struggling with. He is the one who walked out on me and did not help with anything financial for almost 6 months until the courts ordered him to. I feel like I am begging someone to stay with me and honestly I feel that I am losing respect for myself in doing that. I do want my marriage to work, but only if he does too. He doesn't seem to see that he has to earn back my trust...
I guess I know what I want - but if it's not what he wants, is it really worth it?

I don't see this as a communicating problem, I see it as a cheating husband problem.

He was willing to go up to the day before the divorce, and then agreed not to talk to the other woman? And then he let you know that you were lucky he stayed? YIKES!!!

What were the problems in the marriage BEFORE he found the other woman?

It's a marriage. It's a family. It's what you want. Yes it's worth it. You can always get a divorce. But if you can get a divorce knowing that you did everything you could, you'll sleep better.

My WW had an A. She wanted nothing to do with me. She wanted to leave and run off with OM forever. I chose to fight for my family. Now, two years later, she seems very happy to be here. Our children are very happy. I could have divorced many times and almost did. But I didn't. I sit at night and listen to my DDs play and laugh. I don't need to ask myself if it was worth it.

How did you do it to not give up? I don't know if I can do this?

I didn't know I could either. Every time I was about to give up, something came along and renewed my strength. I'm generally never quit anything but this is by far the hardest thing I ever did. The hardest part was wondering if this was what would really be best for WW. I know now that it was but the A destroyed my self-esteem and for a long time I thought she might be happier with OM.

I found things to focus on. Songs mainly. I found different songs for different parts of the journey. But what kept me going was knowing that I was doing what was right for my family. I was doing what I had to do for my children. To be honest, I was not hopeful for a very long time. I was not hopeful we would stay married. And yet here we are. I guess I was wrong.

I didn't realize we had problems before this. But in hindsight, I believe the "problems" came with adjusting to twins. I didn't have as much time for him and slowly I didn't do as many little things for him - basically I used up all credits in the love bank. We fought more, living on less sleep, I was much crankier. However, he did the same. It isn't like he was making lots of deposits either. Unfortunately - this other woman began racking up the credits (22 years old, nothing else to focus on but him - no screaming children, no house to clean, no real job, just him) and that's what started the whole thing.

I want to be happy. I thought I could be with him and let him know I was willing to forgive him, but he needed to let go of the past and he says he can't forgive me for things. Now I still haven't heard back from the letter I wrote him. I don't know what to do. I feel like I am losing my self respect and that this life of limbo is taking his toll on me. The letter said that if he didn't respond, I would know that meant that he wanted the divorce.

Babies, cranky, etc.....we all have had them and still survived. That is NO excuse for an A.

Nope....he had better find another reason. What I see is him being selfish and if he has to say he won't change his mind....then you can bet he will. WS' babble something fierce yet it is still babble. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

So get yourself in and finish plan A. Secure your finances for you and your children. NO matter where he lives or how much me makes, he is OBLIGATED to support his family.

One thing an OP (or OW in your case) wants is for the WS to spend lots of $$ on them and the A. They maybe coy about it but remember the A is based on a very selfish virus that must feed on the lives of the family. Remove that lifeline and the Marriage suckers (WS & OP)..... die. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

For now, let him babble the more he squirms and tries to convince you he wants the D, the more you know it is a WS tactic to get you t/d what he wants. The WS wants to hurt the family. Hard to believe your H do that but the WS in him does.

So if he wants the D and you don't, then tell him to go get it. This should NOT be threat. You should mean it but don't do it before YOU are ready. Tell him you heard him and need to think about it. Use this stall tactic and stall time to go check out your family's options (child support, separation, g/t a MC, doctor, learn your D options, etc.)..... get your finances in order and then when your mind and heart are in sync... you w/b strong enough to tell him to go get the D. Let him do his own dirty work.

1st you have to strengthen your character. WS' are hard on loving people, so we gotta strengthen your back bone a lot..... learn about plans A & B. My favorite tool against a WS is reverse babble.

Work on you 1st.

take care,
L.

What if you forget about the letter? What if you change the rules of the game? What if you tell him what I posted earlier? I already told you what I would have thought had I received that letter. Today is a new day. What if that letter got sent to Nepal by mistake? Maybe your WH has never even seen the letter. It was a bad letter to begin with and yet you might get divorced over it. How sad is that?

For starters, as I posted, I gave him the letter on Fathers Day when he picked up the children - so he definitely saw it - I put it in his hands personally. I don't think it was a bad letter at all, I understand that is your opinion, but if you are going to be judgemental and sarcastic, don't bother replying anymore - it is rather offensive. My goodness, people come for support, not to be chastised.
I thank you for trying to be of help, but I don't need any more negativity in my life, and quite honestly you are the only one who has thought the letter was a bad idea - irl or on a board. At least I am working on communication, not just plowing ahead.

No problem. Good luck.