It has been 12 days since WH has had contact with OW. For the past couple days he has been playing lots and lots of computer games. This has always been his way of dealing with issues - he immerses himself into another "dimension". It usually only lasts a day or two and it seems as though the time he spends doing it helps him work through issues.

I'm stil doing Plan A, but I'm feeling extremely weak today. Of course PMS has something to do with it too! I feel really exhausted and unmotivated and I have an overwhelming desire to just be held. I just want to feel his arms around me. I want to hear him say all those loving words he said when we agreed to work this all out. I'm really, really craving his attention. I'm not saying a word to him about it, because I CANNOT seem needy or clingy. I know this. But it's just so incredibly hard today.

On the positive side, he is bonding a lot with the kids. They are playing games together and he and my older son have done some work on a broken computer. I guess I should be grateful for that because while WH was in the A he was emotionally distant with the kids a lot.

I just feel like I need to be nutured right now and I've tried doing things for myself, to make myself feel better, but it isn't working. I'm hoping that expressing my feelings here to people who understand will make me feel better.

I'm also wondering if I should ask him if he'd like to go get a cup of coffee together later. We've taken a few trips like this lately - about a 20 minute drive in his convertible with the top down on a warm, sunny day. It has always been his idea before and I'm wondering if it would be too much for me to suggest it.

Until today Plan A has gone extremely well. I guess the fact that he is so involved in the games makes me a little jealous right now. I've never had a problem with it before, but it has never gone on this long before either. Guess maybe should look at this (withdrawl from the A) as a much bigger issue than the work-related problems of the past and that's why he's still continuing the long gaming sessions. It's just so hard because I am SOOOOOO ready to move on! Now that there is no contact with OW I want to get out the LB and EN questionarres and talk about the future and really work on the marriage. But I know he isn't ready to do that yet. And it's hard to be patient when I feel like I have been patient for so long!!!!!

I have gone and watched him play the game a bit and asked him questions about it. He was VERY receptive to it - at first answering questions with short answers and then volunteering information and telling me about different experiences he's had with the game. This is something I NEVER would have showed interest in in the past and he seemed pretty happy that I was asking questions. It's a step toward recreational companionship, right?

Any advice or comments would be appreciated! Thanks for the support everyone!

J4J

I've felt like you do many times. I guess you aren't supposed to force affection in Plan A, but its hard because you do want to move on. I would ask him to go for the coffee. Don't see what that can hurt. I wish I could give better advice but I'm still going thru this too...

Stay strong and keep trying. Eventually he will be through withdrawal and truly want to be with you. Right now, he's going through the stages of addiction.

Ask him for coffee. Take an interest in the computer games, even. Actively be interested.

What I did: took up golf. I didn't play before, but I knew that it was a way to spend time with him. We didn't talk much while we were out there the first few weeks. I respected the pain that he was feeling and let him see me as a friend he could count on. Eventually that helped him see that *I* was the BEST friend he could have ever....

Well, I told him I was in the mood for some iced coffee and let it go at that. About 10 minutes later he came to me and told me he'd like to go.

We were pretty quiet on the trip, talked a bit about an item on the news. On the way home I asked if he had talked to his sister recently. Then I asked if he has had any contact with OW (OW was his sister's best friend). He got very, very angry. He said he never wanted to hear from OW again because she is "psycho", asked how she could contact him anyway since we changed all our phone numbers, and then got mad and wanted to know WHY I have to keep bringing it up. He never wants to talk about it again.

When we got home he pulled into the garage, got out of the car, slammed the door and said "Next time you want to go out for coffee, don't ask me!" and then he went in the house.

So.....probably really bad timing on my part, right?? But I DO have a right to know whether he has had any contact with OW! He just gets really, really angry every time I bring it up and never wants to speak of it again.....

I came in the house, changed my clothes and told him I was going out for a run. Oldest son went with me on his bike so we were gone for awhile. I came home and took all 3 kids into our pool (WH was playing video game again). When we came in from the pool WH was in bed taking a nap.

So I'm going to continue with PLan A (feeling MUCH MUCH better after exercise!) and I guarantee WH will give me the cold shoulder tonight because I brought up the taboo topic. I really need to write the letter to him, explaining how this is not something that I can just forget and never talk about again. I just worry that he will begin reading it, see what the topic is, and delete it without reading. It makes me angry that the topic makes him uncomfortable and angry and therefore, it is something we shouldn't discuss. He says that every time I bring it up it is taking a step backwards in our relationship. Can someone please give me a good response for that?

Did he write the OW a no contact letter? If so, did you send it?

While trust has to be earned back, there's a fine line, IMO between being wary, and kicking the beehive.

When my XH had his EA, once I exposed it and insisted on NC (we didn't do the letter - I didn't know about MB at the time) we agreed not to bring it up again, and we didn't. (POJA without knowing about POJA).

I accepted his word that he would have no more contact, but I kept my eyes peeled just in case. To my knowledge they never had contact again (and I do realize that in many cases, spouses slip)... I was watchful for that, but I didn't keep revisiting the issue, once I had my questions answered and we'd agreed to move on from it.

I also never threw it up at him in a fight any time after that. Once it's done, it's done. Dredging up old hurts in a new fight never has positive results.

He does have to work to earn your trust again, and he should understand and accept that. If he's doing nothing wrong, he shouldn't freak out if you're keeping tabs on things, but I wouldn't keep bringing her up. If you have unanswered questions about the A etc., then come to an agreement about talking with him about it one last time (but do not try this if he's angry...) - tell him you need to get a few more things out of your system and ask him when you can both talk about it - get it all out, then let it go.

This does not mean trust him blindly afterward - this means let the subject go, and try to move forward from it. Be watchful, and don't ignore contact if it happens - but deal with it when and IF it happens.

HTH

JinGA

I agree with JinA.

It was the HARDEST thing that I had to do: NOT ask about OW. It's something of an obsession for you. Understandable. But tell yourself there are things that YOU cannot bring up.

I heard it described pretty well this way:

Men and women are different in the way they handle things.... For men, once the issue is over, it's like a CLOSED DOOR. They've acknowledged it, but it's done for them. They won't return to it.

Women, on the other hand, are like spiders on a spider web. We'll keep coming BACK to the same thread over and over and over again until eventually it is far enough away it doesn't come up so much anymore.

You have to try to NOT discuss it. The only time we talked about it was in MC at first. Because it was a "safe" place. Outside of that, no.

I had to be his FRIEND. His SAFE HAVEN. Because right then, he was looking at OW as that place. He needed to see that he was SAFE with me, even though *I* was wronged... he needed to know that I still loved him, even if he didn't ask me to.

At least he wanted to go for coffee!! That is a HUGE step in the right direction! Keep up the positives!

The reasons I have been asking are:

1) He has agreed to no contact before and broken the promise. This time it is much different because he had a really big fight with OW, we have changed all of our phone numbers, his cell phone is no longer password protected, and OW and I had a conversation and he knows it. So while I do think there has not been any contact because it *is* very different this time, I still don't trust him.

2) He has not "come clean" about everything. There are still things that he has not admitted to, and I can't seem to get past them. Am I really supposed to believe that they had one sexual encounter at the very beginning and then decided to just be friends for 4 months? So when he lied and said he was going to Colorado for a weekend business trip and I found out he was really at her house, it was just them being friends??? And when he told me he was going out with the guys and planned to stay at a friends house because they would be drinking but really bought her a plane ticket and booked a hotel room on Cape Cod, I'm still supposed to believe they were just friends?

I feel like I *could* get past these issues, if he would just own up to them. Instead he is taking the cowards way out. But every time I bring it up he tells me I'm "taking our marriage a step backwards".

I didn't ask him to do the no contact letter because OW left a message on our HOME phone (which she never called) teling him to stop calling her or she would file a restraining order. At that point he suggested that we change all of our phone numbers so she couldn't contact him either. He was pretty hurt by the whole situation with her and I thought the no contact letter, after everything that happened, would be too much.

Also, there are things that OW told me on the phone that I know to be true, but he won't admit to. Believe me, I don't trust her AT ALL, but with all the snooping I have been doing, my intuition, and his horrible ability to lie, I know that some of the things she told me on the phone were true. And even after confronting him with the evidence he still refuses to admit to them!! Things like him wiring her money to pay her rent, not cutting off the credit card he ordered for her (I found the confirmation letter for it and he said he cancelled it, but it turns out she had been using it all along - I have proof of this one on paper but can't tell him because it was not obtained legally). How can I ever trust him again if he won't tell the truth about things I know he is lieing about???

As long as he doesn't come clean with the whole truth, and the answers to any questions you have, your marriage won't recover. I would tell him THAT.

Have you read Joseph's letter? It is a good one.

But I also suggest that you go to counseling to resolve this, instead of ruining your fun time together. You should be spending 15 hours a week having fun, WITHOUT discussing the affair or OW.

He probably thinks this questioning is going to go on forever, and he is right, it will until it is resolved.

Yes, I have read Joseph's letter and I do plan to write something very similar. It really has some good points and I'd like to add a few of my own and re-word it. I'm a professional writer and I just couldn't print the letter off and hand it to WH - it has to come from my heart. Besides, WH has read most of my work and would be able to tell that it is not my "style". However, I really, really appreciate the fact that so many people here have written these types of things and shared them. This is a wonderful community and I'm so happy that I found it!

Cancel the card yourself. Paying her rent? Hm.... sounds like someone has him by da' cajones. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/eek.gif" alt="" />

So he isn't a WS, he's a sugar daddy? Hm.... the OW will spout truth mixed with lies. They call it babbling.

Still learn to peel out the truth and whack the WS with it. Good and hard. That's reality.

What compels him to finance her? Ask him to explain it. Ask them as 'open ended' questions.

I would also say....so why did you have to pick a loser to have an A with? 'xplain that logic..... <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

L.

J4J,

It seems like your H is really trying to stay in NC. I bet that's why he got so angry. He's trying, it's difficult, and you brought it up. He's withdrawing, so he's testy. Just keep your eyes peeled. If he's on the computer a lot, get a keylogger. Are you guys in MC? I worry about him not admitting to things. Maybe a neutral third person would help...

KM

Well the anger could also be revealing guilt.

I'm not saying he's in contact - or he's not - I don't know. But often when people get angry and defensive it's because they know they're doing something wrong and they don't want to be called on it.

J4J - you never said if a no contact letter was written and sent? This could go a long way toward your peace of mind if it hasn't been done, you both need to write this and send it.

JinGA

I can't cancel the credit card because it isn't in my name! He told me a few months ago that he had signed up for this new credit card and would be ordering a card for me too. When a letter came in the mail from this company, I opened it, even though it was addressed to him. (We have always opened pieces of mail that are addressed to each other if we feel they are important - never a problem before). It turns out that this was a confirmation letter because he had requested a credit card to be sent to her! I immediately confronted him about it, he said he was going to cancel it. However, I wrote down all the information about the card and was able to go into the online system and have been watching the activity! I do have to say that she didn't use it much - probably about $50-$100 per month. Can't believe she eats at McDonalds so much - YUCK! Anyway, the card is now maxed out because of his charges on it and it only had a $600 limit anyway. I have been watching it carefully to make sure he isn't using any of our finances to pay the balance due and he hasn't paid on it since the beginning of May. He has handed over all financial control to me (agreement we made) and I know he doesn't have the money to pay it. I also have the information for all his other credit cards (lots of snooping) and have called them all to see if I am listed on the accounts also. Turns out there is only one joint credit card that we have and I already knew about it. So since the card is at its limit OW can't charge anything on it. I also find it interesting that he received a credit card bill in the mail yesterday for a different card (again, his name only) and he threw it in the trash without even opening it! I guess he doesn't want to look at the detailed statement to remind him of how much he spent - maybe it hurts too much? One can only hope!!

I like the idea of the keylogger, but I definitely cannot risk it. That would be very, very bad. My WH is a network security professional and I am positive he would find something like that.

He is definitely making an effort and I honestly think there hasn't been contact. His home office is off of our kitchen and when I am standing at the center island in our kitchen I can see everything he is doing on the computer screen. He used to shut his door all the time because the kids were too loud, but now his door is open all the time. He no longer stays up late (after I have gone to bed) on the computer.

We are not doing MC and can't do it right now. We don't have the $$. Yes, I know we should make the $$, but we honestly can't. The A started after he was laid off from a high profile director's position and he went waaay down hill. His self esteem suffered terribly. He was very cocky about finding a new job and had a real wake up call when he was turned down for jobs and was "over-qualified" for many. He was able to get a contract position with a significant pay cut but then with all the A stuff he had no motivation to get his 40 hours in. Plus there were times that he went away for the weekend and took Friday off and then didn't make it back for work Monday, lots of days he was too sick to go in, etc. Because of this we are in a really bad financial situation right now. Our lease is up at the end of July and we need to come up with funds to secure a new place (owner is selling the house - we had a rent with option to buy agreement and had originally planed to buy the house, but can't do so now).

We live in the Boston area where housing is outrageous. We are trying to find something in southern NH or further away from the city, something smaller than what we have now, but the issue is that everyone around here requires 1st, last, and security deposit - quite a large chunk of cash (plus moving truck fees). This is a big issue for us - I am resntful of the fact that we are in this situation - I feel that 90% of it is because of the A - him spending money on her, spending money to travel to see her, not working his job hours. He doesn't see it that way.....or if he does he won't admit to it.

Anyway, every spare cent right now has to go to finding a place to live for 8/1. I'm upset that we can no longer afford to live in the nice community we live in now and my children will have to move, change schools, and re-adjust to everything. We'll have to go from a 2900 sq ft 4 bedroom home on 2 acres of property to something very small - looking at 3 bedroom townhouses and apartments around 1500 sq feet. I'm mad as h*ll about it. Not that the house size makes that much difference, but that the kids and I have to make so many adjustments because of his selfish behavior.

However, last night he did say that he wants to list his car for sale. This is a monumental move. Maybe his way of accepting some responsibility? His car has been his "baby" - it is a classic BMW that he wanted to keep as a collectors item, but now he says we need to sell it in order to get a down payment to rent a new place. I can only hope that this is part of his way of accepting responsibility for the situation we are in.

Well make sure the joint card is paid on time - or that will affect *your* credit. If he wants to throw his own credit in the dumper - that's up to him.

IMO it would be reasonable to set a boundary where you won't take care of things financial that concern her - if she still has a card, contact is NOT cut.

Pull your credit report. You can do this for free at www.annualcreditreport.com Depending on the rules in your state you should be able to get at least one free report per year - don't get sucked in to buying credit scores or reports - it's your RIGHT to get a copy of your credit files from Equifax, TransUnion and Experian once per year for free (where I am it's twice a year), or at any time if you are refused credit.

Protect yourself - if he's doing wacky things, you don't want your credit going down the pipe with his. My XH did some irresponsible things and it nearly dragged my credit down, even though I was proactive about it. It took me 2 years to straighten out ONE account that I was an authorized user on that he let go delinquent. Many letters and copies of our divorce decree etc... but I digress.

If he's refusing to be transparent about her card on his account, something isn't right there. That card should be canceled immediately.

JinGA

Get a keylogger even if he is a techno-geek. Right now, I can promise you, he is seriously underestimating you. My FWH (now DH) is the computer geek in the house and he had NO idea that I knew about things like that. He thought he was so much smarter than me... and I busted him. I'm not kidding. My husband really is VERY computer savvy and because he assumed I wouldn't know "stuff" about the computer... I used that to my advantage.

Besides, you need the keylogger to get passwords and otherhidden information.

Get it on there ASAP. Your WH will never suspect simply because he thinks he has got it covered. And because he is taking your intelligence for granted (and assuming he is soooooo much smarter) you actually have the advantage.


I HIGHLY and StRONGLY suggest to install the free one. You can set AdAware and Spybot and other spyware scanners to ignore your KL. It's really easy.

Yeah, I agree. It should be cancelled, but he told me he cancelled it about a month ago. It was just recently that I found out that he didn't. He stopped contact on 6/9 and I have been monitoring that account since then to make sure there has been no activity and there hasn't. I don't want to tell him that I have logged into the account because it is not in my name and it is illegal for me to have done so. Just thinking of the "what if's" for the future....

Can you give me links or names so I can read about keyloggers? Are they idetifiable in any way? I mean, if he would find the thing on his system would he be able to tell it was me who put it there? What kinds of things does it tell you? All of our computers at home are on one wireless network, so would I be able to use my laptop on the same network to get this information? And what kind of information do I need to know about his computer in order to get this?

http://www.marriagebuilders.com/ubbt/sho...rt=all&vc=1

Go there. It is a step by step on what to do.

You will need to install the keylogger on each computer since it will only register the machine it is on. I can't recall the one I used, but it was simple and basic, but it got the information I needed.

HTH.