This post is reprinted for our new member "lindysue". I hope someone can help her understand what happened to her and perhaps she even learn a few things to help her with her marriage:

Hi, I finally found a situation at least in age similar to mine. And this site has men responding explaining how they think and I need to hear that.

I have had a relationship with Joe for over 22 yrs, 9 of those married. Second marriages for us both. He is 62, I am 58. Two years ago I left the town I had lived in for 35 yrs, a job I liked and moved an hour away because all we did was fight and I hated his drinking and did not want to look at him anymore or felt we were destroying each other. So instead of doing the same dance, I changed it.

We had gone to counseling a few years prior and he quit, I followed rules by not being sarcastic or critical (which is a fault of mine) and we did well for 8 mos. It was great-then we stopped going (my fault-naive enough to think we were "cured") and fell back into our old pattern.

My husband supported my move, we agreed to work on marriage from a distance, I naively thought once again that he would realize his loss, get his act together and rescue us. I sometimes think I live in a fantasy world. We had always had great sex, that part of our life was good, sometimes ED on his part because of fatigue, age, drinking but most of time great.

I know this is going to be long but bear with me, I need the input. Anyway, so I move, hate my new job, miss friends, miss him and think what have I done, better to be with him drinking than alone. He continues to see me off and on, even suggests things I have always wanted him to do to come back but I could not move at the start of a new job (teaching) and probably really hurt his ego by saying "too little-too late kind of thing"- during this period he also loses a very good job and drinks even more and begins suffering PTSD from Vietnam 35 yrs ago. So I know he hit rock bottom and I really never understand how a drinker thinks. It seems like under the influence they speak the truth accorded to married for 30 yrs but yet Joe says it really isn't how you feel.

So now getting to the point, after 2 mos of staying connected with me at a distance, he begins being angry and refuses to see me, hangs up, etc and I drive to his place to confront, avoids me, just ugly. Finally one time he does pay a visit and we have sex, says he is sorry for avoiding me and will work on marriage.

Then by a phone call I find out 2 wks later he has been seeing someone for almost the two months he was avoiding me and she is 42 and a pretty easy target. I know her vaguely, we were from a very small town. He has know her since she was 12 and a good friend of her brother's. She is not all that attractive, I really was/am for my age now and so is he. I was totally devastated, thought I would die, yada, yada, as we all have. After I drive down and confront her and him, he ends it easily enough, said it never meant anything, had ED problems with her, only had sex twice, was lonely, drinking, and angry at me for leaving and wanted to get even, never stopped loving me and still did.

This was almost 2 yrs ago; he quit drinking, moved in with me and has been the man I always wanted him to be.

My questions are- why could he have not done this before he decided to see this woman? (he had hired her sons to work for him and would pick them up and drop off so had opportunity to hang around and visit-that is no big deal, they knew each already, but why does sex have to follow, especially if you are with a stranger and experience ED-is that not humiliating and if she was not all that into sex, just wham bam kind of girl, I really get into myself).

I was also available anytime for sex if that was what he needed and I was disease free, he risked sleeping with something that slept around frequently. I have lost my thought, but why risk all that and that I might have divorced him as my friends advised instead of forgiving and trying to make it work.

Other question-why am I still obsessing over it now, we also went to counseling again and she said "get over" move on, he loves you. I just feel like when the "****** hit the fan" so to speak, he had to make a choice and until that time he had his cake and eat it too thing and he realized I was the better deal, financially self sufficient, she had no money, he was out of job (now works very hard). And I just cannot accept that he really loved/loves me or he would not have done this and he says if I really loved him I would not have moved and left him.

To you men out there, do you understand what he went through, I don't want to make excuses for what he did, just want to understand it and accept it. Thanks for taking the time to read.

lindysue

Thanks for editing, much easier to read and hope someone has some advice.

Lindy

Is your H still drinking?

Have you been to marriage counseling?

To Peppercorn, thanks for responding. No he quit drink after I learned of his deception. That was a year and half ago and he is doing great. Said he sees me and our life together in the past and present in a whole new life. We did try counseling, he seems to have accepted what he did as a horrible mistake, ashamed, remorseful and just wants me to stop hurting. Most days I can but every now and then he just hits me all over again and the sex part (and I guess that is my ego taking over) still confuses me, why go that far and for what-what was the prize? She was not someone he planned a future with or great in bed, our sex life was always good. I just have the most trouble with getting rid of the images of them together which seems to be pretty common in this posts. Or why the need for someone else, even tho I moved and was an hour drive away, I was available.

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />I know exactly how you are feeling. The truth is that he simply had this affair because he wanted to do so; he was not thinking of the consequences or how it would hurt you for years; perhaps the rest of your life. Please try to understand and let this part 'go' as there are no good answers to why a man or woman has an affair. Their are excuses, reasons and such, but the truth is simply that they did it because they wanted to do it.

My husband had an affair a year ago, this month; so I truly know your feelings. We were the same way - happy, great sex, communicated well; the entire bit. Now, I suggest you take each day at a time and look at today and tomorrow, not the past as it only will bring you pain. He knows how he has hurt you and all he can do is to show you, in his every day actions and words, that he will never do this again and he has learned a 'life lesson' from it all. You be the wife he wants and he must be the husband you want, from this day forward. We cannot change the past; it is written, but we do have control over our future. It takes a good 2-4 years to heal and get over an affair. It is the most hurtful thing anyone can go through in their life. You two will make it and you will learn to trust again. Enjoy each other for what you have now, and cherish what was almost lost. Good luck to you - mmarie

Thanks for your response, maybe I am still in denial and want to believe there is a logical, acceptable reason other than "he wanted to"-the why would he want to if she was not very attractive, just available, sex was not good and he did not care whether he saw her daily or not. And he would be drinking by the time he would see her. I know this side of him and know he is capable of many things drinking that he is not sober. I just keep asking if it was not much to get excited about or made you feel that good, why continue it for one more stab (no pun intended) at sex and risk my divorcing you. So my question is still "why did he want to"?

Iread again Snagglepuss' post about no good reason but my situation does sound different than yours (here I go again, trying to rationalize irrational behavior) in that we were not happy, his drinking created many problems for us so after threatening (don't know if you read my original lengthy post) a couple of years, I finally did it and moved. While we were together the best part of our marriage was the sex, and maybe 60% of time fairly happy. I thought moving was the wake up call but all it did was anger him and he wanted to hurt me and make himself feel wanted. My pride just keep getting in the way of "why would you want to touch, kiss, fondle or screw someone when you had that part that was good with us. WAs it the no expectations, I can drink and no criticism from the OW that was appealing and he says yes-ok, have a friend that you can talk to but why have sex?

Snagglepuss, how do you handle the "Why they wanted to do it part"? I know he must have wanted to, otherwise he would not, by why do they want to and risk all-why is a not so great piece of [censored] worth a marriage? Why can't someone answer this-some man that might understand.

Hi Lindysue,

Welcome to MB. I saw your plea on Marriedfor30years' thread and appreciated Mr. Goodstuff creating your own thread.

I'm sorry no formerly wayward husbands have come forth so far to attempt to help you understand the hows and whys of an affair. Lousygolfer had a thread a few weeks ago about his affair and I will link it for you if I can find it.

In the meantime, you may have hinted to your own answer, if there is one:



My H and I are also in our 50's and his OW was late 40's but age knows no boundaries when it comes to infidelity. He and OW were both award-winning teachers, hence the start of their "we're alike, so we must be soul-mates" babble.

My FWH said he got lonely (yours may have too) so when he started chatting online.....things just developed from there. Neither of them meant to do it (so they say), but it just happened and their vulnerabilities left them void of their good senses. (You can read aobut our 32 year detached marriage linked to my sig line.)

D-Day #1 was a year ago today. This week has been tough for me. One reason I was busy when my H had his EA was because I was caring for HIS ailing mother. She passed away this week so things have been hectic.

But I take solace that he chose me, he's here with me, he now sees the OW as ugly, boring and a worst liar than him b/c she is still in denial as far as we know. She actually represented a huge wake-up call for us and our marriage is even better than it was before the A.

My H is helping me forget by being overly transparent. He constantly calls me, affirms his love for me, goes overboard to let me know what he's doing and where he is.

Is your H helping you? Does he know about the depths of your struggle to understand why?

LS, maybe you should find another sympathetic IC who can help you 'start to forget' or at least give you coping techniques.

I also suggest you might start another thread (or move parts of this one) to the Recovery forum where more people read.

I'll try to link LG's thread. In the meantime, you might post a request for his attention on the General Questions II forum. He helped my H and me when I first registered and may be able to give you some thoughts to help you with your struggle.

Best wishes,
Ace

I am not very computer savvy and all this initial stuff has me confused. Is there a key to decipher, figured out OW and OM and a few others. So not sure about how to move from one link to another. I have been checking and have been disappointed that no one has really responded. I finally saw another MC (got that one, too) today and hope that will help. My previous MC more or less invalidated my feelings with "should be over it -move on thing".

It has been a year and half, my husband as I said quit drinking and has been very good to me. More patient, thoughtful and easier to be with -sex is great so I just thought I have to go to another MC to figure out what is going on with me. I know he did not care for the woman, she was not any trophy for sure, and is deeply embarrassed and not even sure why he did go that far, yes lonely, but why sex? He has agreed to see counselor individually and then she will work with us together. I just have good days where I put it behind me and almost laugh at the picture of him drunk with an ED problem and her helping and then I have days where that thought just does me in. So thanks for posting, I thought no one was going to answer, now I can update on my counseling.

ONe thing I took from it today was by my moving I was trying to coerce him into changing his ways and no one can change another which I knew but did not look at it like that then, more of a desperate, can't go on like this even though he was basically happy. And I asked counselor that when I confronted, found out and said ok, make a choice-me or her-I was not coercing him to choose me, he made the choice. I hope I understand this. I have so much in my life to be thankful for, I don't want this keeping me down, Her name was Shirley and all my fun memories of us (when I think of us as pure as being just the two of us) are coded in my mind Before Shirley and that is weird, like life was ok before her but it wasn't.

I know when he ended the next day after I confronted him, he never spoke to her again or had any desire too, I just think "did I make it too easy for him, make your choice and I am here for you"-guess I thought he did not suffer like I have. Well thanks again for writing and keep it up. Glad your life is better, I know, we too, have a better marriage, think he knows that now so I try to rationalize that he may never have known that if he had not sunk so low. Lindy

I tried to find Lousy G stuff -no luck

<img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/crazy.gif" alt="" />Oh yes, the why did they risk losing the person they say they love more than anyone else in the world? Because they were simply not thinking about the consequences of their actions; only their immediate gratification. They think we will never find out about it. All mine could say was that he was depressed because women have stopped looking at him or flirting with him and he felt old and fat and ugly. Said it had nothing to do with me; that he knew I find him sexy and attractive, but he gained weight, was losing some of his hair, was getting wrinkled, blah blah blah. (Like I'm not getting older with wrinkles and such). To tell you the truth, in my husbands case, I believe that he did it because this woman was his 'high school sweetheart' and they never had sex and I think he wanted to fulfill that little 'secret fantasy'. Plus he had a moral burst; hey two woman finding him sexy and appealing; he had it made - as far as he was concerned. But in the end, all he did was hurt two women and himself. I've given up asking about the why's because he just did it; without thought of the result of his actions.

Hey, when I found out; he dumped her that day and has been at my side ever since. He feels like a fool for many reasons. But - try to rebuild and not focus on what really can't be answered. You and your honey have a lifetime to look forward to. It will drive you crazy if you look for 'rational reasons'; hey the entire act of infidelity is irrational. Good luck; you will make it. The Snag

Thanks, Snag, it is hopeful to hear you not in pain and accepting. My husband-at least I don't think-had any vanity problems, just keeps saying he was so angry because I left him, I read on some post from Steve H. I think about vulnerability and entitlement, made some sense, that they do not know how to protect their vulnerability and feel "entitled" and that equals an affair. I guess when you lose your wife, lose a job, drink heavily and have Vietnam PTSD you are pretty vulnerable and he could not handle it in a constructive manner and then I think he must have thought, what the ******, she left so I am entitled. Not excusing, just still grasping but that did make some sense. Yes, I look pretty good at 58 but my ego keeps getting in the way when she was 42, I said, how can I compete with that even tho she is not a looker. He said age had nothing to do with it but I think with him being 60 and a 42 is available, that has to do something for the 'ol ego. I am doing much better -hope counseling will really put us on the road to recovery. Reading here enlightens me, too. Oh, and my husband actually I think wanted me to find out (since he did not hide it and told me right off when I asked if he was) don't think he had the balls to end it even though he said he was going to and knew he would have to get himself out of his mess and me knowing would do that.But he did dump her right away and has been the model husband since so I guess quitting drinking to live with me and being a different person should speak actions of love, he could have had her easily.

Ace asked me to come to your thread and perhaps offer some insight from the FWS perspective. I'm not sure I have much to offer different than what you may have already read in books. My A was textbook. When I read the books, HNHN and "Not Just Friends", my name could have easily been used in the scenarios.

Specifically why I had an A, I allowed my needs to be met by someone other than my H. I was mad at my H and had a HUGE sense of entitlement.

The "why" questions are sometimes impossible to answer.

I read this on another forum and thought it might be helpful.

"""These elements would need to exist in both partners in order for an A to take place. The elements don't need to exist in a person's personality exclusively. They do need to exist at the time of the A.

1. opportunity
2. poor boundaries
3. a willing partner
4. A desire
5. a willingness to deceive
6. recklessness
7. risk taking
8. potential reward
9. A spouse or SO
10. desperation
11. expectations
12. immediate gratification
13. poor impulse control
14. low self esteem
15. sense of entitlement
16. anticipation
17. lack of self respect
18. lack of integrity
19. self preservation
20. willing to make moral/value compromise
21. missing need(s)
22. disloyalty
23. holding secrets
24. Untrustworthy
25. Self focused"""

I realize the list is long. I would be willing to bet your H fit some, if not all of these, when he was in his A.

LC

Thanks, I think my husband fits all of the above. And being an alcoholic intensifies probab ly all of above.

I want to give you some hope for your future.

I realized that my 'dwelling' on the 'reasons why' my WS had an affair was, quite frankly, me searching inside myself to see why he did not realize he could turn to me and discuss any feelings or attractions he might have for another person, BEFORE it took place. When I finally discussed this with him, I found that he was afraid to say anything to me for fear I would get angry or that he would hurt my feelings if he even hinted at the fact he was attracted sexually to another person. He did not know how to deal with it at all and allowed it to take place.

So - I must take some responsibility in knowing he did not feel safe in discussing this with me. He now does know he can talk to me about anything at anytime and I will not react from the emotional point of view; that I am here by his side for the long-haul. Funny that HE already knows I am able to talk to him about anything and the thought of me being unfaithful never enters his mind. But, that is a good thing as I have 'a plan' when I do ever feel attraction to another; he didn't.

Forget trying to figure out the whys and reasons; there are many or there are none. It happened, it is over and focusing on it only causes self-doubt, blame and confusion.

The reality is, he is with you now, you are communicating, you are loving, you are both committed to having a good, trusting, truthful relationship. Enjoy it; each and every day. Do not take each other for granted; always be each others best friend. I must say that I wake up each day with confidence, great self-esteem and don't think about the affair. What I think about is my sexy, wonderful, loving, caring partner and how much we do love each other to overcome the pain of infidelity. I am the victor, not the victim. Life is great - lessons have been learned by all and an even stronger bond has been formed between us.

Go forward - let the past go. He learned from it and knows he can now turn to you, not someone else with ALL of his needs, emotionally and sexually. Keep in touch.

I just had a major breakthrough with the "why" question. After reading some post here on passive-aggressive (I have thought my husband that often but did not fully understand it) I researched the traits and it hit the nail on the head for me. This even made sense to me why he would seek another, for 20 years I have battled this and reacted the wrong way and really enabled him to become more so, when I left I really threw him , no more control over me. I showed him what I found, he was defensive at first but then began to slooooooooowly see what I am seeing. Opened a door anyway. We have begun counseling, she seems good, I had one before that made things worse, so all the why questions and the graphic details do not seem that important, we may finally be seeing the big picture. Thanks for your support.

How's it going Lindysue? Have't heard from you in awhile.

Check in with an update when you can.

I care and was wondering how/where you are.

Ace

I have not posted in some time but have been reading. WE have gone to MC and last week she listened to my hurt and pain and I was pretty much in an attack mode after the session, just carried it over into our ride home. This Wednesday will listen to him as she asked him to write down all the reasons why he did what he did. I have heard them all already, one day they could all make sense to me, any other day none of them hold water.

I think the MC is good and will help me interpret or try to make sense of it from another perspective, although as most posts say, it may never make sense.

I know he is not the man he was two years ago and not drinking has made all the difference, he sees things I tried to get him to "see" 2 yrs ago before I moved and I guess heavier drinking after I moved gave him all those things described in the above list, desperation, availability, entitlement, etc.

When he says he loves me deeply, more than anything else, I love hearing it but he said all that to me before I left him and even told OW that he loved her during their 2 mo fling (he said he did not love her, just something you say) but it still leaves me unsettled, his actions speak love but I still have mistrust and I know he knows I need to hear all that for reassurance but is he trying to gain my trust for ME or for HIS benefit, does that make sense? Anyway, will post after Wed to hear what he tells counselor, it will come out differently when another person is a witness and maybe I will gain some insight.

Thanks Ace and to all for asking where I have been, just read your post after I submitted mine, have been keeping my granddaughter a lot since I am off for the summer (teacher) and she is the light of my life.

I get angry at my husband when I know he planned his night of sex sometime when I was out of state for the birth of my granddaughter. He knew I was capable of showing up to see him unannounced (why not, I was his wife) so he knew I would be gone for 10 days, I think he must have slept with the OW on the Sat night my granddaughter was born, how callous and cruel is that, I associate her birth with him banging someone else.

That is the part that confuses, he is in this "alien fog" I read about somewhere, and drinking but lucid enough to "plan" to coincide when I am out of picture. He actually does not remember the night and neither does OW as I have called her (not the brightest bulb either) and she just said he said something about me being out of state. So much for a memorable evening if neither can remember much about it. I think I would have.

Anyway, appreciate all your support and advice. Lindy