Jin,

His actions show that a plan B would be very effective on him, or at least a modified plan B. Withdraw a little. Don't call him. Don't have conversations with him when he calls other than stuff about the kids. Stay friendly, but minimize your conversation. Withdraw on a personal level but maintain your professional/parenting relationship.

Why? Because he obviously has feelings for you and your accessability keeps him on the fence. I bet you a million dollars he would freak if he found out you were dating and he would be jealous.

I'm not saying date just to make him so, but the illusion of a social life and dating can be a powerful motivator. When asked, keep the info to a minimum.

Heck, go on friendly dates with no romantic intentions.

I'm sure this will expedite his recovery. He will probably have an epiphany some day, but who knows.

I hope he does, since I like reading your thread and I like the idea of having such a friendly relationship with an ex, at least for the kids.

I've reached out to mine and she has ignored my efforts. We will see a parenting coordinator soon, so I'm hoping it will help our situation to have a 3rd party input.

I plan on showing the coordinator how my trust is completely shattered. I can show documented proof of this.

We'll see how it goes. I don't think things will get better till my ex crashes emotionally. She covers her pain by jumping from relationship to relationship. She's engaged again less than after she met the guy.

We'll see how it goes.

Don't mean to thread jack.

You're an example to me of how a relationship with an ex should be vs what I have now.

Jin,

Listen to your gut...which says, "I am getting in the way of my children's relationship with their father. They want to hear from him while he's on vacation...how often, what format...that truly is up to them to request."

I know you know this. You can choose to worry...as you did last year...your choice. He's responsible...he knows he is...and his brief encounter with stark fear recently may change his choices...or not. Not within your control.

I say, have your kids ask for what they want and let go the response. Example this to them. Ask yourself what you really want from him...to protect you from your choice to worry? To connect, acknowledge, verify something for you? Get to your own truth and understand it...see if the beliefs behind your urge are what your adult self believes or your own inner child is believing.

To me, this is crucial to partnering...because I wasn't this way, as I have shared. The worrying and demanding/begging I did to DH and others was me trying to control my comfort, my peace, my assurance through others...the P/A parenting behavior companion I've come to really see clearly.

I am my own protection...I cannot change whatever happens...I cannot make someone feel loved through my own worry (which can feel like I'm working my tail off when I'm not even acting from love in reality)...what I can do is see my lines clearly and act and NOT act from them. Choosing not to act is as much of an important choice as choosing TO act.

I see a lot of DJs going on in your posts of these last two days or so...what do you think of them? How are they paying you off by choosing to perceive your XH in this way, and is that payoff false or real for you?

In case I don't see you later...


I hope you have a safe vacation. Have fun <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/wink.gif" alt="" />

Respectfully disagree there. I don't interfere where the kids are concerned. I haven't asked them to ask their father - I haven't brought any of this up to them. [color:"red"] You don't share your concerns with them...your worries, your stuff. Do you ask them how they feel about their father leaving for two weeks? Do you ask what they think, worry about, believe or what they perceive? What was it like for them last year when he disappeared? This is tough to find the lines between your relationship with your children, and the relationship with their father. There can seem to be overlaps...depends on where you have your focus. Don't neglect part of your relationship with them thinking it's not yours. Exampling boundaries, your own power, your choices, your stuff is really important...and it's messy because of previous oneness of parents...and now the separateness. Do they know you are choosing to love your xH? Do they know you want to have a new marriage with him? [/color] They saw him last night - I don't know what they talked about, I didn't ask. They might see him tonight also - and what they say or do is up to them. If they want to call him while he's away - they can, and if they don't, I won't ask them to. That's how things have always been and I don't intend to change that. [color:"red"] Do you know what they believe about relationships, marriage? Do you know what they think their lives will be like, what their part will be, if they have any power, or are destined to also be left, divorced, or to leave? [/color] When they've come to me with issues concerning their relationship with their father, I've brought concerns to him that they have asked me to - to help them resolve them, but ONLY when I'm asked. [color:"red"] Would being the courier of concerns empower your children? [/color] I ramble on here about what I'd like, and maybe that's not a good thing - but I'm not putting actions behind that. [color:"red"] I believe all you share is a good thing...it's you. You're awesome. When you ramble on you help untold others and have directly helped me. Because you chose to ramble, to divulge, to share...that's not just the magic of MB. That's the fabulous part of being human. Helps you and others. [/color]

If I'm playing mind games with myself - it's only with myself. Other than talking them out here - I'm not dragging others down into them - that's one of the reasons *why* I'm here. [color:"red"] You cannot drag others into or away from...you're not that powerful. They choose to listen when they listen...their choice. They choose to be involved and their level of involvement. Respect your kids...they choose...there's a sneaky control thing in what we don't share with others...what we hold back as well as what we share...know this balance. What you struggle with inside, they do, also. They have their own stuff. Know it. Not to fix, cure or be a conduit for their issues...to teach them that they are whole and complete beings, like you, and that being known and knowing is what we ache for in this world. [/color] I'd rather put it out here and get a 2x4 and something to chew on, than keep making the same mistakes over and over. [color:"red"] What a great choice...do you do that with your children? [/color] At least if the mistakes are in my own head, I can try to undo my own damage - and not damage anybody else in the process. Does that make sense? [color:"red"] You always make sense...you aren't unreasonable. Do you think your belief that your thoughts do not affect your life is reasonable? [/color]


And I do believe I've acknowledged what I can't control. [color:"red"] You've acknowledged you believe this...and I see you, from my perception, in tiny ways acting to control...to protect yourself through others...to change your own feelings, your choices, through others' choices. Which is why I pinpointed this desire of yours to make him know your fear...as the consequence of his disappearing act last year. Not for this one act, for what it represents...that what you know isn't what you really believe and act from right now. Hey, I remember...that frustration of knowing I can't control...and acting like I could, anyway. It's a process. Takes more than knowing...takes practice. [/color] I'm fighting with wanting to be in the driver's seat *g*... but [color:"red"] Stop right there...get to know how you signal yourself. We do this until we choose not to...what you said was an important truth...you know you are struggling not to be in the driver's seat...period. No buts. But negates the previous statement. Sit for a moment and realize all the little ways you yearn to be in control and trace that urge...get to know more of yourself...don't go for the but. [/color] at least awareness of that is part of the battle. I'm going to work a bit harder on that... I've got two weeks to really focus on OTHER THINGS and not him, right? [color:"red"] You have every second of every day of your entire life to choose where your thoughts dwell. [/color] I do intend to keep myself busy. Worry creeps in when I'm idle so I'm trying to be proactive about that, and when it does start, I'm trying to think of things to 'deprogram' myself from old patterns. [color:"red"] Again, I read this as you believing you must distract yourself from your feelings, which I believe are your signals...instead of getting the information they are delivering...or choosing your thoughts to not distract, just to know. Choosing your thoughts is the key to your own deprogramming...and what I hear is that you manage your emotions, not understand them. I don't hear you believing you CHOOSE to worry...it sneaks up on you...and you choose to stay busy because your focus isn't under your control. I'm addressing this core belief here not your actual choices.[/color]


I will let the kids do as they choose - I always have. And I am going to choose to let it go myself, [color:"red"] There is a duplicituous part of letting go...we can let go that which we do not control and that's healthy. We can let go by not addressing that which is crucial for growth. Not healthy. The letting go feeling is very much the same...relief...there's a lot of relief in conflict avoidance...it's temporary...and there's a lot of relief when you re-center yourself. Which is why acting from your feelings is crazy...because they are a result of your beliefs, your choices...so knowing what you are really letting go is essential to growing and not repeating your patterns. Yes, I believe conflict avoidance is as much within us, in our relationsihp with ourselves, as it is in our relationships with others. Sneaky stuff. [/color] I'm just struggling with it and that's why I'm talking it out here before putting thoughts into actions. [color:"red"] Which making a GREAT choice in my opinion. Awesome. Healthy and loving towards to self. And very much appreciated by me and others who struggle, too. Thank you!!!! [/color] I do want to just drop him a line and tell him that I hope he has a safe vacation - I feel that, and there's nothing wrong with that. [color:"red"] Get to the next level, Jin. Why is there nothing wrong with sharing what you're thinking, feeling, believing, perceiving or how you view life? Why is there nothing wrong with sharing who you are? And are you doing it? What's the difference with sharing your fears and asking someone else to cure them? [/color] Then I'm going to let it be. I think it is a loving act to wish him well - and by not making demands or requests or having any other expectations or strings attached, I'm avoiding DJs and other love-busters. Does that sound OK to you? It feels OK to me. [color:"red"] I pray that you will always get the okay signal when you share who you are with the intent to be known and to know. [/color]


And when you put it that way - it makes sense. And it's still something I am struggling to work on. This gives me something else to think about - another way to look at it. [color:"red"] Thank you. Your wording brought to mind that we resist changing ourselves...feels like betrayal...when how we change ourselves the most is in choosing our perspective differently. We aren't being changed or changing ourselves manually...when we change our beliefs (filtered through our choice of perspective) then our lives change. [/color]


I am my own worst enemy. [color:"red"] Focus on knowing you are not your own worst enemy...sure can act like it and experience it as truth. Choose to be your own best friend, confidante, listen well and know...not judge. Not attack. Not punish. Because you are you...whole, in your entirety. And what you're learning now is only discovering what you truly already know and for some reason, wouldn't listen to...act from...and that some reason usually is your focus. [/color] And you're right. Like I said, that's why I am talking things out here before I act on my feelings. I need to understand where these feelings are coming from and what they mean, in order to act appropriately.

[color:"red"] How 'bout authentically, not appropriately? When you trace your feelings to your beliefs...you get to know what beliefs you've stored...and that you choose to have them...and can choose to change your beliefs. Being true to ourselves is how we live to our code...you talking it out here, choosing to be open to other perspectives, understand others perceptions, means you are open to knowing and understanding your own. Not an enemy...and not because you fear acting inappropriately...which has societal beliefs in that construct. You for you, about you. Authentically. [/color]


There's no payoff. It's venting - [color:"red"] Venting is a payoff...like worrying...can feel like we're really taking action when we aren't. Has false payoffs in there. DJs helps us to live in fantasy, in tiny ways...false self-comfort, soothing, false reassurance. Doesn't make us bad or liars...makes us not know what our payoffs really are.

I get a real payoff in reading and responding on MB. Helps me maintain my boundary in marriage...keeps my awareness on my marriage being my top priority...my half of it. The payoff is active in my life every day. Even on days I don't post...I still have false payoffs involved with this active, authentic one. Like admiration, attention, someone listening to who I am...and the false part is thinking if I say the correct words in the correct way, I'll earn admiration. False payoff...not true. We choose to admire and appreciate. No one can earn that from us. MB helps me to catch my false (old) thinking and realign.

Learning that humans do not do that which they do not want to do was huge for me. Identifying payoffs, both real and false, is a big part of that. Finally brought me out of my fantasy mode into reality mode...or closer to it. We do nothing for which there isn't a payoff...real or imagined. [/color] trying to understand myself why I feel the way I feel, and trying to change what I need to change about me. I am a bit frustrated, maybe a bit jealous - he gets to take a vacation AGAIN and I don't. You see, my being able to take a vacation is contingent on his working here in my stead. And since his going is contingent on my taking care of everything (kind of like 'parenting the business')... I feel rather taken for granted that I'll just suck it up and do without a vacation as I usually do, and he has the freedom to come and go as he pleases - not just during his vacation time, but all the time. Childish perhaps, but that's a dynamic that's a little bit unique to our situation here. I'm trying hard not to feel resentful about that. I feel at times like where the business is concerned, I bear the brunt of all of it and at times I envy his 'out of sight out of mind' attitude toward it. If I did that too, the place would sink fast. I have asked for some time off, and received a couple of days here and there. I have to admit I'm rather burned out. I have been for months. This has less to do with my "relationship" (the personal) part with XH than it does the "business" part. We are still business partners, and at times I feel like I'm carrying it alone -I'm the "parent" when I want to be the "partner" and share the responsibilities more, but I cannot compel him to do that.

[color:"red"] If you would rewrite the paragraph and insert choice...i.e., "I choose to still be business partners" you may experience a great drop in your resentment. Use it to review, as you have before, your marriage...where choosing to over-do left no room for him but to under-do.

And I experienced what you are...I had my own business and worked 70 hours a week, every day, without vacations. I know that trapped perspective, and I did it for three years. Until I closed my business. I'm not discounting your experience in any way...and not asking of you anything more than I did of myself. Choices are not blame. Responsibility is not blame. You cannot experience your power as your reality until you own both of those. I told myself I closed my business based on my OS's behavior. I shifted my priority to parenting...and I think from reading your thread, I'm going to finally heal from my own fantasy back then. Thank you. [/color]

I haven't made DJ toward him about this, [color:"red"]When I said you were DJing, I was asking you to see where you were in your posts. Because DJs, like conflict avoidance (which is from DJs) corrodes us inside and out. Same way. [/color] or had any AO since March (I had a big one then...quite a burnout meltdown actually). The stress of the business has pushed me to my limits at times, [color:"red"] I'm not repeating because I don't think you hear me...you may well have reached this part of my post with a whole new perspective...I'm highlighting that you see stress as something coming at you from the outside. How you process your stress is up to you...you have that power, that control...the business isn't real...it's not you. You're real. [/color] and I really feel that if I could just get a few days away from this place, I'd be able to regroup on several levels. I suppose my feelings cross a bit from business to personal - hard not to even if there's nothing more than friendship between busisness partners. [color:"red"]Another important belief for you to examine and consider...are you your whole self everywhere you go? At work, at home, geocaching, buncoing (is that a word?) as a mother, a daughter, a sister, a friend? [/color] Does that shed any light on things? What I would have liked is what he's done in the past - if he has 2 weeks off, he takes a week for himself, then covers here for me for a week so I can do my thing. I haven't been able to do that since 2006 - and he did not cover for me then. [color:"red"] Right here you say you chose to take time off without xH covering for you. You were capable, able and you chose to do it. Earlier, you say there's no way for you to do this...that him taking his vacation as his denies you. I'm confused. [/color] He did in 2005. He said he might have a few extra days so I could go home to visit my Mom - but I don't know if or when that might happen. It's just hard sometimes to carry all that responsibility by myself, and where the business is concerned I feel taken for granted and perhaps even taken advantage of, and honestly I feel rather powerless to do anything much about it. [color:"red"] Here are really important signals for you, from you. Powerlessness means you are attempting to control that which you have no control over. Means you're stepping over key choices and choosing NOT to make them including what you believe. Means you are choosing your reality and then feeling trapped by it. Different choices are asking to be made within you...from your beliefs, perceptions and perspectives. Listen to them. There's the belief that you can cure your stuff by getting away. May not be a valid expectation in the first place. [/color] I can't afford to hire somebody to cover for me, so my options are limited. [color:"red"] You believe you are bound, painted into a corner, by your financial restraints. You are not. As you said, you can close the business for a week...and there will be consequences. You can take half-days, and there will be consequences. What you want is what you do...you don't want those consequences...you may well not want a vacation because of those consequences. You have the power to ask for what you want and let go the outcome. You can realign your priorities, and include yourself in them or not. Your choice. Telling yourself you have no options doesn't mean you don't have several of them. Fantasy vs. reality. [/color] If I closed the store for time off that would be retail suicide and with living things here it needs to be tended to several times a day anyway. I kind of feel like a hostage to this business (and perhaps a little bit to XH) until we can sell it. So that is where a lot of *that* stuff is coming from.

[color:"red"] You've identified where your stuff is coming from in terms of practical ramifications. You haven't emotionally, mentally or spiritually addressed them...and they all over lap...they all impact one another. That's why you are one whole being. Get to your reality...you are choosing to make your business your highest priority...above all else. May feel like fulfilling an obligation, demonstrating commitment, accepting the full brunt of your consequences for your choices. Not you trapped at all, is it? You choosing to commit and maintain that commitment because of your own choice. Maybe your signals are asking you if your priorities are matching what you truly want in your life? [/color]

I'm working on this. My responsibility here is what it is, regardless of his involvement, so I need to just accept that and deal with it. Still, it's not healthy for people to rarely have time off. I've had 2 Saturdays in the last year. I went out of town on business last year for 3 days (annual trip) and while that's "work" I squeeze in a "me day" and it's a change of scenery, but people who don't work 7 days a week, 70 hours a week sometimes don't understand. Even the one day a week that I don't open, I have to come in and attend to things - so there is never really a day "off". I think all things considered I've held it together pretty well - and if I feel a bit grumpy or resentful at times - but don't show it to him outwardly, I think I'm doing pretty well under the circumstances. I hope that doesn't sound defensive - it's not meant to. That's just where I'm at right now.

And yes, I've told him what my needs are regarding the business. Back in March when I had my meltdown he suggested alternating weekends - and I thought it was a great idea. Only problem is, it hasn't happened. [color:"red"] Again with the "it" as if it has choice or force. Your choice to not take alternating weekends is yours..."I am working this weekend and won't work next weekend." And you don't. You choose not to...then "it" happens...you let go the outcome. And if you don't choose to do it, then you accept you wanted more for whatever to not happen than to have your weekend off. That's okay. Knowing what your payoffs are will tell you why your priorities seems to be in conflict. [/color] He "needs" me here. [color:"red"] There's a DJ. [/color] I can handle things alone for the most part, but he can be rather helpless and needy when I'm not here. When I am out, he calls over and over for things that if he just took a moment before picking up the phone, he could solve on his own. I don't fuss about it - if he calls, I answer and help as I can. [color:"red"] You can choose not to answer, too. Your choice. You can screen what you answer through voicemail...choose what you'll respond to and what you won't. Not overdoing so he is left to only underdo...and wishing he would just do. Changing what you do changes everything.[/color]

I feel like asking for time off is asking him to make a big sacrifice - yet my constantly having to be here IS a sacrifice on my part. [color:"red"] He chooses and you choose. Stop manipulating HIS choice by not asking. Your half is to ask for what you want and LET GO the outcome. Respect others, Jin. This is primal control and manipulation. Hear it, see it, experience it. He doesn't tell you he loves you because he doesn't want you to be lead on. Managing each others' stuff...and not minding your own. Get this lesson, Jin. Grow from it. Free yourself. [/color] Not healthy no matter how you slice it. But it's a catch-22. If he's not willing to step up and give me a break, I can't force him. [color:"red"] In the Owning All Your Villagers exercise, we get set in reality by flipping our own statements about others over...and apply them to ourselves. In this statement, you would say, "If I'm unwilling to step up and give me a break, I can't force me to." [/color] I'm glad of the help I do get - but on the other hand I need more than he seems to be willing to give. He knows I'm burned out - but because I'm not freaking out and making demands, he's just keeping things as they are, "letting" me keep doing most of the work. It sucks - but there isn't much I can do about it. He suggested a good solution (very POJA!) and I agreed to it - but then he didn't hold up his end of the deal.

I need a vacation.....

JinGA