So sorry that you are here. A couple things that you posted struck a nerve with me....

My husband started a long distance affair at the end of Feb. One of the first things I noticed was that he started pointing out flaws in me. First it was just little things - like a few new gray hairs, a zit, etc. But after awhile he felt it necessary to mention that my outfit didn't look right or I didn't do something right. Then there were the excuses about not wanting to get too close to me - he didn't feel well, I was too sweaty because I just came back from jogging, etc.

He also wouldnt give me specific details - was on a business trip but didn't remember the name of the hotel they put him up at or didn't know which hotel they were going to book him at, but would let me know.....

And many times when he was gone he ended up having to stay an extra day - usually didn't call until about the time I expected him home (and like you I had prepared dinner, cleaned the house, etc).

I'm NOT saying that your wife is having an affair. But she is obviously getting her needs met by either someone else or a group of other people. This is dangerous to your marriage.

In retrospect, I wish I would hav done things differently (and found this group sooner!). Here is what I suggest:

Tell her that her new lifestyle is jeapordizing your marriage, tell her that you don't like the way she has been acting and that for the good of your marriage you would like some changes. AND THEN LET IT GO!!!

You WILL think about this constantly. You WILL want to talk about it all the time. You will want to fish for information, you will want to make accusations. DONT!!!!

You need to make her home life secure and stable. If you are the slightest bit needy, clingy, or demanding she will RUN as fast as she can back to this person or these people. Mention the issues and then let it go. Work on meeting her needs (read info on this site). Be nice, compassionate, helpful, and supportive, even if she is rejecting you or criticizing you.

While you are being the nicest husband possible, keep your eyes and ears open. Look at her cell phone (especially text messages), look at credit card bills, ask normal questions about her trip (without sounding like you are pumping her for information) and make notes of any inconsistencies or areas that she seems "foggy" about. If you are nice and supportive you will be completely surprised about how much information she will reveal. I tried the angry witch route and it didn't get me ANYTHING except that he wanted to go back to his other lifestyle as soon as possible. As soon as I became supportive and nice he started opening up about his "friend". (He was leading me to believe she was just a friend, yet my gut told me differently. YES, it hurt like crazy! But after awhile he was talking to me like he was my best friend and telling me all sorts of things.

DONT reveal anything you might find until you have a large amount of it assembled (charges on credit cards, cell calls - anything you might find). I made the mistake of revealing things as I found them and it was too easy for him to lie and justify each of them. If you wait until you have a large batch of things and then hit her with them all at once she won't be able to deny it.

I wish you the best of luck - be sure to read as much as possible on this site - there is some great information here. You CAN save your marrige - it is very early - just be sure to heed the advice offered by DR H and this group. I tried many different things and NOTHING worked until now!!

P74:

J4J has just laid out your next months activities.

Please become the chesire cat. Eat up as much info as you can get, but DO NOT react to it yet.

There is a time and place for that.

Your WW can defeat you piecemeal, but she can't get you when you collect your intelligence and get a coherent picture of what is going on.

And the cost? This thing may cost you your M. What is that worth?

A divorce? That can cost you $5,000. Easy.

A PI? Might cost $500-1,000

Your own snooping? Free, except for the emotional cost. Which can be huge.

But, learn about plan A. Because that's what you have to do, in a coherent manner.

LG

Friend,

I'm so sorry you are here and I know exactly how you feel. It is very scary.

TRUST this site and the wisdom of the people on here. Most of us have been in your shoes and know from hind sight what NOT to do. It will take a great deal of self discipline and control on your part.

You need to find a way to become cold and calculating. Imagine she's no longer your wife when snooping. It will become an obsession and it is a very painful thing to go through because you will be in constant pursuit of the truth you FEEL inside but only wish to confirm with your own eyes. I discovered a lot by putting a spy program on the computer and getting her passwords and then reading her emails on her myspace account.

Spy programs are easy to find on the internet and you can configure your spy sweeper programs to bypass the one you have purposely installed.

It is absolutely critical, and I can't stress this enough, that you accumulate evidence.

I made the mistake of revealing my knowledge of the truth on the same night I found out.

If and when you find out the truth, DO NOT confront right away. The evidence needs to be 100% convincing and it needs to be irrefutable. I wish I hadn't revealed that I knew her passwords and had printed out all the messages I came accross before confronting her. Hindsight is 20/20.

Be grateful you don't have kids. Trust me when I tell you that it makes the process you're going through a lot more painful and scary.

How would I start?

Take her out to eat at a public place or make her a dinner one night.

I would be very open and tell her that you're scared about some of the things you've observed and feel it is very inappropriate behavior for a married woman and that you feel she's playing with fire.

Ask her to please stop going to these get togethers without you or express to her that you would like to come along when possible.

I would also request that she return the dress given to her by another man.

I told my ex that she had all the signs of a woman having an affair. She asked me what those were and I gave them to her.

I would be completely cool if D-Day comes. Emotions will only work against you in situations and a WW wants to see a strong man, not a weak, whiny, weepy one.

I'm saying this to you as someone who didn't follow this advice and wish that I had.

Best of luck to you.

Pentagon,

This one is easy, sadly too easy. <img src="/ubbt/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" /> You hire a PI for the next "social" or company party and you have her followed. There really is not need to guess and you should NOT be guessing about this.

Here is my take on this. At this point, I doubt that MB will help you, although you would be well advised to learn as much as you can because you ARE GOING TO NEED IT. Why? Well, if she is doing what you think she is and given what you have said I think she is, she will NOT stop until she is busted and the marriage will have no chance unless she leaves this company.

HOWEVER, when these thing happen YOU will need all of the resources here to get through the fall out IF you decide to try and rebuild your marriage. She is on a slippery slope right now, and you know it. She is probably NOT having an affair as in "emotional" attachment, although she clearly likes the wild life.

I hate to be a downer here, but affairs are NEVER about unmet needs, they are about people's choices. However, the state of a marriage which is about unmet needs has a lot to do with people vulnerability to make bad choices. My guess is her work environment is more than she can handle no matter how good or bad an H you are.

Given that work on being a good H. Work on gathering information. And then expose what you learn. She will be mad, she may threaten to leave the marriage, who knows, but if you are grounded in the principles of a good marriage and relationship you will be able to make better decisions in a very bad time.

I hope I am wrong, but the best way to know is hire a PI to find out.

Hope something I have said helps.

God Bless,

JL

Thank you everyone for your advice and support. I will now proceed with your thoughts and advice as a guide to help me negotiate this looming disaster that was once a very fine marriage. I appreciate all of you for you help in this.

Pentagon,

What is your plan?

God Bless,

JL

JL,

I am going to lay low and attempt to uncover anything that doesn't seem right regarding her activities. I can't afford to hire a PI, so I will have to do it on my own. One thing that is concerning me, but may well be an opportunity for me to discover things, is that she has planned another coed weekend trip with these people to Vegas in two weeks for her birhtday. I have to work Saturday and have at least a five hour drive after I get off to get there. But I am very curious about what I may find. Just trying to figure out how I can do it without her knowledge.

As I said before, something about your situation has struck a cord with me (maybe because my H once had a job that involved a lot of after-work parties!).

Are you sure that all of these trips are actually with a group of people? If so, you can't be the only one being hurt. There have to be a lot of other spouses who are going through the same thing as you (unless the group is predominantly singles). I would try to gather information about these "parties" and find out whether people higher up in the chain of command are participating too. Find out about company policies and sexual harrassment policies and when the time comes, blow the lid off!

Did she invite you on the trip? Or are you planning a birthday "surprise"??

I'm going to have to chime in here. My FWH's OW adopted a very similar change in behavior when their affair started. They also went to Vegas for work and that's where it all started.

They both began drinking a lot, using work as an excuse, and would try to put both me and OW's H at ease by saying it was a coed thing. It never was.

It sounds to me as if your W is feeding you very shallow excuses. She's falling into a lifestyle that has opened a door of opportunity. And she's not trying to close it.

RED FLAGS should be going up everywhere. I'd try to find a way to go to Vegas with her. If she is resentful for having YOU there on her birthday, it's a problem.

And it's highly unusual for work to take an employee to Vegas for a birthday. Very unusual. As in: not likely.

Were you specifically invited? If you were, did you feel that your invitation was an afterthought?

If the answer to the first question is no, or the answer to the second is yes, then IMO your W has emotionally checked out of your M at the very least, and quite likely involved in an A of some sort.

I echo the suggestions of others here - snoop and find out more about what's going on.

Pentagon,

A PI is much cheaper than divorce. Consider borrowing the money. I also think PI's in Vegas are used to this and know what they are doing. Please consider this. If you try to follow I doubt you will get the information necessary.

I am sorry this is happening to you.

God Bless,

JL

I'm a sucker - I tried to resist talking about this when she finally got home from work tonight. But I couldn't hold it down. We actually had a fairly constructive discussion about all of this. By the time it was over, I was invited to a birthday dinner with all of them tomorrow night and the Vegas trip in two weeks. We then had very intimate and comforting sex for the first time in a while.

I'm not letting my guard down though. I feel good about the fact that she realizes she needs to make some behavioral changes and that she is encouraging me to attend these next two functions with her. But she may be thinking she'll be good on these next two outings and I will see that there is nothing to worry about. Then back to the same crap later. So I'm sticking with my plan, except for the snooping in Vegas as it looks like I'm going. I hope there is no need for it later, but if there is I'll be ready for it.

Thanks all of you for the support and advice. I came into this forum two days ago without a clue as to what to do, feeling like I was the only one out there experiencing this. It is nice to have such a large group of people who will take the time to relate issues of their own lives to help others.

I am an ex-PI, and can tell you what you need to do if you need to snoop (you or a friend), regarding checking your wife.

One thing you can do, is the next time she goes away, when she comes back you can take the underclothes and swipe them for male genetic material, etc. There are special kits for that (OT, they are also very good for parents of teenage daughters).

Let me know, and I can email you or post a link. Just to be clear, I do not sell the kits myself, or profit from any sales, but have used them myself (on cases, not on my wife), and found them to be reliable if anything is present.

Also, since you are in Southern CA, I can probably recommend a good PI not too far away. I don't profit from that, either, but they are my friends and I trust them. They would also do their best to be reasonable in their rates.

Failing that, I can help you conduct your own surveillance.

We will be praying for you, and feel free to email me with any questions you have.

jack.allcargo@yahoo.com

You're not a sucker. I feel its very good that you let this out and told her how you feel. I really hope that you stopped it from getting any worse.

I dealt with a situation with my ex where she made friends with a guy on the base. She met up with him without my knowledge and was allegedly only wanting to be friends. I discovered the friendship and raised enough he!! about it that she decided that friction in her marriage wasn't worth the friendship. She said she made better friends with men than with women.

She was cheating just over a year later with several other men. (In her mind, going on a date where nothing happened wasn't cheating. I beg to differ.)

All I'm saying is keep your guard up.

You have an opening to be romantic with her and woo her. Take advantage of it.

Post deleted by not_yet_married

Welcome babycakes3040,

Near the top of the page where it says Infidelity ->->General Questions II.....to the right of that is a button marked 'Post'...that is where you start a new post/thread. When you tell your story...try and keep to the original thread you start and it will be easier for members to keep up with your situation. The subject can be changed a few times at least...as far as I know.

Well, an update on my situation. I went to dinner with the "group" shortly after my last post. Uneventful and ambigous. She left for Laughlin on Thurs 7/5 with her best girlfriend from work to celebrate the girlfriend's 25 yr-old brother's birthday with all of his 25-ish yr-old friends. She was there Thurs, Fri, left for Vegas on Sat morning - my wife's b-day 7/7/07. Spoke to her Sat morning as she was leaving for Vegas - I asked her to please at least be somewhat sober by the time I got there as I already knew it was going to be party time by the time I got there.

I had to work that Sat, got on a plane @ 2 PM with her b-day gift - a pearl charm from Tiffany. Was in Vegas at the hotel by 4. She was in the pool @ the Hardrock with all her work buddies - drunk. If any of you are familiar with the Hardrock Hotel - it's not just a pool, it's a party - especially on Sunday's when they have "Rehab". One of her male co-workers was in a lounge chair by the pool with a Playboy (of which I later found out that he requested my wife to grab for him when her and her girlfriend went to his room to change into their swimsuits). My wife barely recognized the fact I was there. After a few minutes, I decided to give her the b-day present as I didn't want to leave it by the pool or with the hotel bellman. It was expensive and I figured the best place would be around her neck. In short, it wasn't the absolute look of surprise and specialness I had hoped for (I have never gone through that kind of expense for a gift) but a few second thanks baby.

So we left @ about 5:30, there was a line at the hotel where we were staying across the street from the Hardrock to check in, she then went to the lobby bathroom for about a half hour to vomit. I finally got her out of there and to our room where she passed out. I was so upset - all I wanted was to spend a special b-day with her, watch her eyes light up when she saw her present, and some nice dinner and maybe some dancing. Here I was @ 8 o'clock ordering a room service grilled cheese sandwich and a couple of beers, as well as a salad in case she woke up hungry.

Sunday was already planned by her and the work klan to be spent at "Rehab" - the previously mentioned high-heels, silicone breasts, bikini pool party that ended up costing us $250/each to attend. It was fine until her and everyone else were about 2/3 through their first vodka soda sport cups @ about 2 PM. then bikinis were being untied by the men and it pretty much turned into a no holds barred peep show, just short of sex and an orgy. It was then that I found something truly elemental to what I've been so scared of - some of the people there from her work were doing cocaine and speed. It ended again at about 6 PM with her again passing out while we were, or I was, having sex in our room.

Since then, she has agreed to cut back on some of the activities with these people. But it honestly isn't happening. At this very moment I am at home alone after a long day at work while she is 80 miles away in San Diego at the horse track. At 11 this morning when I last spoke to her, she said she would talk to me a little later. I haven't heard from her all day. It's now 9 at night. I have come to the realization that I don't necessarily believe she is involved with physical infidelity - but I sincerely feel like I'm being cheated on emotionally, socially, and spiritually. I just feel liker her heart isn't in us, that she has more fun with these mostly single, attractive, and wealthy people from work. She swears she loves me and when we are together, it's good. But I just feel like after almost 14 years together, I've been reduced to a simple weekend boyfriend who is always wasy enough to go home to when there's nothing else to do. I feel so left out of her life and so overdone by these friends of hers, especially the males and all those guys that this good looking bunch might meet when they are on the town.

The week after the whole Palm Springs episode that I started this thread with a month ago, I planned this whole special day of fun, just to try and prove to her that I can be fun and that we can experience things we've always wanted to do together but have never done. It started with getting up at 4 in the morning for a hot air balloon ride (our first), then the beach, the boardwalk, ballroom dance lessons (our first), happy hour in the marina, and a great dinner at the Charthouse in Dana Point, complete with reservations for a window table and flowers delivered. It was great, such an awesome day. Making love didn't happen that night because she was too tired. The feeling we felt that day left her in about three days.

At this point I simply feel like she loves me but doesn't love me like she did. I tused to be so simple for us, no money or extravagence - just pure joy and love of being united. I feel more like I'm a sibling to her than her husband of 10 years. I really am heartbroken and want this to work. I can't get the thought out of my head of her even simply holding hands with another man. I just don't know what to do to save it. Please help me.

I think you need to enlist the help of a counselor. Your wife is headed down the wrong path if she wants to remain married. The bikini parties are highly inappropriate for a work group. The drug use is scary. She needs to quit, but you might need to get a counselor to help.

Well, it's been a while since I last posted, and now I really need some advice, thoughts, or simply just the experience of some who has been through this.

It happened. She cheated on me. She went on another company trip to Vegas the weekend of Nov 9-11 to entertain a customer. Completely against my wishes, she took this trip. I had bad feelings about it and we had a huge argument earlier that week about it. But she went anyway.

I went out with my friends that Saturday night because they felt I needed to get out of the house. It was funny at first, because I ended up running into a few people she works with. I was texting her all night, not ever hearing back from her. She finally called around 9:30 Sunday morning and I immediately sensed something was wrong. I even challenged her to tell me what was up and she denied anything. I picked her up from the airport that evening, with the feeling that something might of happened. But, nothing said.

Flash forward 2 1/2 weeks. November 27th, Tuesday after Thanksgiving. I open the cell phone bill and there it is - numerous calls and text messaging to some strange number, all starting the Sunday she was in Vegas. Long calls, not the typical 1-3 minute calls we both usually have. I called the number, posing as a wrong number and got what I had totally hoped against and totally expected. Background check on him revealed he was 38 years old, never married, and an Ivy League college graduate. I was destroyed.

It took me another week to get a handle on her phone password. I spent 2 hours that Sunday night forwarding all of her work emails and text messages to my email. What was revealed really hurt me deeply... she apparently split up with her small group of work friends around 2:30 AM (according to the numerous text messages between them - whereas during the same time I was texting her and she never responded), he sent her a message saying "nice meeting you, get some sleep" and his phone number around 5:30 AM, and they continued contacting each other for the next week through phone calls, text messaging, her work email, and I presume instant messenger. Comments from her saying "I've been thinking about you" and "it was such a perfect night" haunt me to this day, four months later.

It took another week for me to get her to confess. It was a gradual confession, starting with we just talked, then we might of held hands, then it was we made out, and finally after not sleeping for 2 weeks and asking her point blank at 2 o'clock in the morning while she was sleeping, I found out they had sex in his hotel room.

Looking back, the week after she got back from Vegas, she was very distant. She wouldn't voluntarily tell me she loved me, as she did during the first 10 years of our marriage. Then I spend time correlating all of the phone calls, emails, and messaging with times we were together - and it really hurts.

We went to one counseling session, that turned into a nightmare. I insisted on a female counselor because I didn't want her to get the feeling that a male counselor was just siding with me. I even went with her own individual counselor that she had seen only once, the week after her affair. As it turns out, the female counselor tried to turn everything onto me. Until I started giving details about her job that apparently my wife didn't elaborate on during their session. Things like being approached for a threesome by a co-worker, receiving a dress as a gift from another male co-worker, drugs, booze, sex.

It's been a tough four months since this went down. She tells me she wants us. I want us. But there is the constance doubt in the back of my mind that this won't happen again. And though it is getting easier, there are still times where I get the mental picture of what that night in Vegas looked like, and it makes me so sick and so hurt. I want to know every detail, but she won't divulge and I wouldn't believe her if she told me anyway.

I love my wife. I want to be with my wife. I cherish the 13 years we've been together. At he same time, I still can't fully grasp that this has happened. I always thought, in the back of my mind, that she was above this. She was cheated on before, by her fiance and high school sweetheart. I never thought she would actually do it. At the same time, I want to be happy again. And I cannot find happiness in my life right now. I always feel on edge, like any moment the rug will be pulled out from underneath me. Please help.

Reread my advice from 8 months ago -

"I think you are going to have to let her know calmly that her work style is bothering you. It is not appropriate for a married woman to go out drinking with the boys, accept dresses as presents, get drunk and get kicked out of bars, have incriminating photos (I don't care how amusing her workmates find them), and not acting like a married woman.

I think if this keeps up, she WILL have an affair if she hasn't already."

She needs to quit her job and find a more marriage friendly one. Otherwise I don't see the two of you recovering.